| Name: |
SPEARFISHER
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| Subject: |
I Wonder??
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Date:
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4/28/2009 1:51:48 PM
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Who was the idiot that thought that flying a large jet over southern manhattan and around the Statue of Liberty at low levels while being trailed by a fighter jet was a good idea?? Those poor people are a little "gun shy" when it comes to large planes at low levels around tall buildings.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 1:53:22 PM
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of the gross incompetence of this administration. And to think Obama claims he didn't know it was happening. What a crock.....
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| Name: |
Jim Dandy
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 1:55:26 PM
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Not to say, but do we really need more glamor shots of AF1? Had to cost a chunk just to fly those two birds around for a photo op.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 3:10:53 PM
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I doubt the President knew that it was happening. Generally, the President would be a little busy with other things to be involved in making a video. Likely someone in the WH staff approved using the plane for a PR video, but I doubt that they were told that the intent was to fly it close to buildings in NYC. But, the WH should issue a written apology to the residents of NYC, and they should pay to publish it the major newspapers.
The person who has stood up and taken responsibiiity should be fired. If the pilot is a government employee, he/she should be fired. It was really poor judgement. Someone should have been asking a lot of questions before such a video was approved. Just a really, really stupid thing.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 3:45:03 PM
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Of course he knew. I heard an interview with a Secret Service agent and he indicated that both 747's are used when the President traveled so if one was being used for the fly by the President would absolutely have to be told that only one was available. He in fact said that anytime they have scheduled maintenance or other outages they always clear it with the President and his schedule. Sorry Hound, but all the denials about knowing something like this was happening don't wash. But again, you are the resident apologist for the Messiah and are holding up your end quite well.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You are crazy
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Date:
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4/28/2009 4:00:57 PM
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The President is not personally involved with his A/C maintenance. Someone in his inner office staff may be, but not the President himself. I don't care what some Secret Service Agent said. I can assure you that the President is far too busy to concern himself with that sort of thing. Do you realize that he probably has a staff of 20-30 people in "the office of the President" to deal with the day to day operations?
I suspect that the request came in through the AF, who probably sent it to the Military liasion to the WH and he approved it. These things are handled as routine staff actions, and no one in their right mind would take something like that into the President. And to further confuse you, there are SS agents who are assigned to the WH who have no direct involvement with the President. Generally SS agents would refer an inquiry like that to their PR office. Government employees do not routinely answer questions from the Press -- they refer them to the Public Affairs offices.
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 5:07:46 PM
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The pilot should be fired? did you really say that? He is an Air Force Officer, and has to be slated as the best of the best to fly the President around, and you think he should be fired because he was following a lawful order. Oh i get it, he should have refused the order and lost all rank and pay and spent time in Leavenworth just because someone in the Obama administration is a complete and total moron? Come on Hound, y can't you just say someone in the administration screwed up?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 6:06:28 PM
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Without knowing what his order was, who can say? Pilots,even fine AF pilots, can screw up. And I doubt he was taking orders from his Commander -- more likely some kind of video photogragher he was likely told to work with. But this is speculation on my part. But I doubt he was "ordered" to fly close to buildings in NYC.
I'm not sure why, beyond the obvious, why so many of you are hellbent to blame the Administration -- and frankly, I just think it was a human screw up, and the result of not asking for enough details.
I feel bad about the people in NYC that were alarmed, but I hardly think this is a major incident.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 9:10:42 PM
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The administration is hellbent on finding a scapegoat...most likely the Master Sgt. photographer you say was giving the orders.
URL: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124093288256863979.html
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
No, You are crazy
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Date:
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4/28/2009 9:47:48 PM
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I can only tell you what a Secret Service agent said in an interview. I suppose since you were a executive level government employee you know better than a guy who has served Presidents in their security detail. And this is not him being involved in maintenance. This is him knowing that one of the 747's will not be available. Believe me, he knows about those issues because they impact his ability to travel.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Is there anything they are
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Date:
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4/28/2009 9:51:26 PM
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responsible for?!?!?! You claim we always want to blame the administration and yet we have listened to your tirades for the last two years about how everything is Bush's fault....in fact according to you everything is still Bush's fault. You can't seem to find one thing that this administration does that they have to be accountable for. Its no wonder the Messiah's personal approval ratings are so high when he holds that kind of sway over otherwise intelligent people......
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
It's not like
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Date:
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4/28/2009 10:44:07 PM
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he hops on a plane at whim and goes flying. He has a staff to coordinate his schedule and the availability of his planes. He doesn't just get up one morning and decide to go somewhere. I'm trying to attach a URL. See if it works.
If you read it, you will see that he has a staff person that handled this. I can't believe that you think that he handles all this little stuff. I'm sure the SecDef was not even advised or consulted on this. It would have gone from the AF to the WH Military liasion. I swear, I'm not lying about this.
URL: http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/04/28/low.flying.plane/index.html
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Responsibility.....
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Date:
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4/28/2009 10:47:14 PM
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/28/2009 10:51:36 PM
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Yeah right, they're trying to find a scapegoat. Because Obama sat up one night and said I want photos of AF1 flying in NYC. And now he wants to scapegoat it because he doesn't want anyone to know.
Have you ever considered writing fiction?
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Responsibility.....
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Date:
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4/28/2009 10:53:50 PM
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is one of the first principles taught young officers in the military. You can delegate authority but you cannot delegate responsibility. I guess unless you're a democrat.
Tallahound, do you really believe the insane dribble you print. Were those principles taught by the DoD? Never assume responsibility for anything. Get real.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Is there anything they are
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Date:
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4/28/2009 10:56:03 PM
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I didn't say that the Administration didn't screw up. I said that I don't think Obama was behind this or even aware of it until it happened. Apparently Louis Caldera, who is the White House Military person approved it. Is he part of the Administration? yes. Should he be fired? yes. Did he brief Obama - no. Mr. Caldera used to be Secretary of the Army. I think he probably felt he was qualified to give the approval because members of the President's staff do not bother him with petty issues such as this.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Responsibility.....
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Date:
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4/28/2009 11:10:39 PM
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Yes, because I spent 1988-2006 living it. Every day.
And no, the politicals generally are not about "personal responsibility". They are generally about CMA and "staff made me do it".
And never forget the military is not run by military -- it is run by the civilian leadership -- political appointees.
As far as GWB - no I don't blame him for everything. He was poorly advised in a lot of areas by his appointees. The only thing I "blame" GWB for is Iraq and not realizing that his appointees had an agenda for where they led him.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Help me with this
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Date:
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4/29/2009 6:27:01 AM
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Even if you are correct ... do you have a view why his staff would not even advise the Mayor considering what NY went through with 9/11? Also, what would his aministration what the video/pictures for? They said promotion. He was just elected ... what would he need to promote and how would pictures of Air Force One flying over NYC like a terrorist be a good promotion?
Of course he is going to say he is "outraged" to the media and not take responsibility once he saw the backlash. It was another stupid thing that he and his administration has done in their first 100 days. I would not be suprised if he ordered it. If it is a promotion of some sort, wouldn't his staff have to review the concept with him?
Remember, his staff also denied he bowed to the Saudi King and when Obama has been asked he refused to answer the question.
Why do you believe they are telling the truth on the fly over when you have said yourself you think it is obvious he was bowing to the King. When he also did it with the Queen you could say that was out of respect since it was a small head bow ... but for the Saudi King it was a full waist bow.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Responsibility.....
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Date:
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4/29/2009 6:29:19 AM
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Since Obama was not in the military, I doubt he ever learned that principle. Good point.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Like I believe CNN
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Date:
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4/29/2009 7:21:06 AM
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and anything that comes out of this administration. Of course Obama didn't dream up this idiotic idea, he didn't schedule it, etc. No one thinks he does that. What I am responding to is his insistence, as well as every other moron in this incompetent administration, that no one but some low level staffer knew anything about this. That is simply not believable on so many fronts.
And if you believe they would not deny foreknowledge of a FUBAR like this to cover their political a$$es I have some beachfront property in Arizona I want to sell you.....
Really Hound, you are too much.....it's almost funny if it weren't so predictable.
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:35:24 AM
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Really hound. You honestly think the photographer told him where to fly?. I work in Air Operations, for the AIR FORCE, and just happen to work in scheduling. Trust me, these guys can't sneeze without it going in a program. They dang sure can't take a 747 on a joy ride through the skies of NYC without an order to do so.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Help me with this
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:39:29 AM
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No idea why the pictures/video would be needed.
I assume that no permits or special coordination is needed to fly a plane around NYC. I just think no one thought this through.
I believe it because it's not the only time I've heard of a staff approving something that the principle knew nothing about. It happens. For example, I used to get requests in from companies to use government owned planes to do demo flights to high ranking foreign officials considering a purchase of a similar type plane. We rountinely approved these. We didn't go to the SECDEF to get approval. Imagine if one of those planes had crashed and people were killed. The press would have picked it up and there would have been all kinds of questions. But the SECDEF wouldn't have known about it until it happened.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Read WSJ link
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:43:28 AM
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same story. Caldera is not exactly a low level staffer. He's a member of the President's staff who has certain responsibilities and authorities.
You know, MM, you have ODS. You come across as "frothing" over any little issue. Why don't you save your ire at the man for the big issues.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:45:57 AM
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I'm sure no one anticipated a panic in NYC.
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| Name: |
SPEARFISHER
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| Subject: |
I Guess
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Date:
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4/29/2009 9:57:18 AM
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Since Hound thinks Iraq was such a huge mistake we need to dig up Saddam Hussein and put him on Barack Hussein's Cabinet as Senior Advisor on how to scare the fu*# out of New Yorkers.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Read WSJ link
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Date:
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4/29/2009 3:55:03 PM
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Hound, no link in your email. The fact that it was a senior staffer makes it even less likely Obama didn't know about what is now being called Scare Force One.
I think you are missing my point. No one thinks Obama takes care of the maintenance or schedules the plane. What is not believable is him not knowing anything about it despite his "anger" and "demands for an internal review". I base this on the interview with the Secret Service agent and common sense but you are free to disagree.
As for my alleged derangement, it isn't so if its true. What makes BDS so different is the lack of truth. Go to my post above and read the long list of gaffes from this administration. This is exactly what I predicted in terms of gross incompetence. The list keeps growing and despite the poll numbers during this honeymoon phase, if he doesn't get his act together soon people will no longer be able to delude themselves anymore and he will come crashing down.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Read WSJ link
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Date:
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4/29/2009 6:55:12 PM
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The link is in my post below.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I Guess
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:06:01 PM
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Iraq was a mistake and what's going on in Pakistan is why we should have been focusing our efforts in Afghanistan and the tribal territories of Pakistan.
You will never convince me that Saddam poses a serious national security threat to the US. I think I've posted numerous times before about the sub-agenda of Wolfowitz, Feith and a host of others that they led Bush down the path on Iraq. Also, the real plan was to sweep through Iraq, garner their hugs of welcome and thanks, then sweep over to Iran and Syria. Didn't work out that way. And where did Wolfowitz and Feith go when Iraq bogged down? Bush was left holding the bag.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Thats because....
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Date:
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4/29/2009 9:14:58 PM
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... the buck stops in the oval office. W is way to classy to try and pass the buck like that. Was Iraq a mistake? Maybe, but only future historians will know for sure.
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| Name: |
Puntune
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| Subject: |
Fly Over
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Date:
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4/30/2009 9:14:08 AM
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I can tell you from an ATC position... No fly overs No photo-ops No entering no-fly zones restricted areas prohibited areas etc. is allowed without prior cordination with ATC. There is paper work that hits the floor , who - when- what - where etc. all pre-planned. Some one had to make arrangements or the military is suppose to shoot them down. And Yes, experienced pilots do make mistakes. I can't imagine this was a mistake. Presidents have no idea what kind of trouble they cause, even in the air, they come with full escorts.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The only mistake
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Date:
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4/30/2009 12:12:32 PM
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was the public outrage. But remember, this is only a small gaffe and we need to give the current administration a break......
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| Name: |
Gahaka
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| Subject: |
Another fine example
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Date:
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5/1/2024 10:05:59 PM
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