Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 12:01:57 PM

I had some 5-6 year old PT decking replaced, under warranty, that had rotted.  When Russell delivered it yesterday it had a different tag on it and I thought they had changed suppliers.  The driver told me that it was the same supplier but ALL their PT lumber was now rated for 'ground contact', as indicated on the tag, even 5/4 decking.  I don't know if all suppliers are going to this or if this was just a choice Russell made on their own.  This move should give longer life to PT lumber now.  If you are doing a project make sure you are getting a price based on the same material or Russell may be a bit higher if others are pricing 'above ground use' lumber.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 12:13:38 PM

Thanks for the information. I would be interested in knowing  what you had to do to get it covered under warranty. Did you stain and/or use some other treatment to protect it against the weather. Any information you are willing to provide would be greatly appreciated.

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 12:56:12 PM

I had kept all my receipts and contacted Russell to let them know that I had a problem.  Also had the little tags on the lumber which shows whose product it was from.  Russel contacted their supplier and one of their reps came out, looked over the decking and counted out what was needed to replace it.  Within a week and a half (the rep was on vacation for a few days), I had new lumber.  FYI, they will only REPLACE lumber.  They will not pay for any labor.  All in all, they replaced abt 10-12% of my total deck and pier combined.

All my decking has been painted/stained with BEHR deck stain.  I'm a cheap skate and if at all possible buy it as 'OOPS' paint from HD.  I had bought the deck paint for $25 for 5 gallons of solid stain in Bham about 7 yrs ago.  It was close enough to the color I wanted.  My pier, I first purchased 5 gallons, $25, of semitransparent. It lasted 2yrs+ and I had found a better shade to the same color in solid stain for $35 for 5 gallons (HD had gone up on OOPS).  Painted that 3yrs ago.  The BEHR has held up quite well in my opinion.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 1:27:28 PM

Again, thanks fot taking the time to answer my questions. What criteria did the adjuster use for arriving at 10 to 12% being bad?

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 3:29:45 PM

He counted the number of bad boards.  I roughly figured my sqft and came up with that number.

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 3:37:41 PM

The amount of rot was actually much smaller but where I had a 6-8" area of rot on a 16' long pc of decking, he gave me the whole 16' board.  I used the whole 16' in my sqft number.  Overall the amount of rot was probably much less than 5% of my total decking.

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 5:01:38 PM

interesting timing--i discoverd mine last week--black rot on pier & stairs--tag said "United Wood Preserving", Muscle Shoals Al; contacted them & rep driving down tomorrow--seemed very willing to help; before i saw the tag, i had assumed it came from yella wood--called them & their guy came out & sure enough some boards came from them; ha inspected, called back next day 7 said "checks in the mail"---CONCLUSION--there must be a bid class action law suit somewhere as every supplier doesnt hesitate to be nice

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/8/2016 5:51:51 PM

Sent you an email.

Had a neighbor tell me that there were lawsuits but have never seen any of them online (they can't hide that stuff).  Prior to the EPA getting involved about 10-12 years ago the preservatives they were all using had higher concentrations of Arsenic, Chromate and other chemicals.  Some kids were getting sick from playgrounds that used PT lumber and when used on piers and docks they were concerned about leaching into the water.  I still have some OLD pieces of decking that will probably be around when I die.

Anyways, the PT lumber people want to do what is right and stand behind their products.  I'm sure they are concerned about lawsuits but if I know I have rotted lumber and let someone on my deck, then I'm the one who should be sued.

Name:	itisd -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/9/2016 11:26:43 PM

My 1st stain applied  lasted 8 years. I still have the original PT Boards that were installed on my decks in 1998. That is 18 years. After the 1st 8 years I stripped the stain and and used Benjamin Moore brighten and restore, then applied their Naturaltone clear. Clears have very low pigmentation so they don't block as much UV rays but I love the natural look.You can recoat every three years to keep protecting and beautifying. The PT lumber being sold today just doesn't last. The boards split and warp in the 2nd and 3rd years. The Federal Government takes away everything that is good. The arsenic made it last  but the great EPA killed it. Phenol mercury prevented paint and stain from mildewing and they took that away. I could go on  but will not. Composite decking has not kept it's look either and it is so dog gone expensive.

Name:	alatraveler50 -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/11/2016 9:24:26 AM

I just reused my 2x6,8 & 10's from my old deck and pier to build an 8x16 garden shed.  Originally installed in the 80's and still in great shape.

I guess I look at things a bit different than a lot of folks.  It's not as much the EPA but it's the idiots that build playground equipment out of highly concentrated arsenic treated lumber rather than thinking about alternative products that would be safer for kid use.  If we didn't have ADEM and the EPA would we have our 'Treasured Lake'? or would we be like Flint, Michigan.  I don't believe any of us is perfect and we all make mistakes.  Sometimes we do things we know to be right but not everyone agrees. 

Name:	Excape -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/11/2016 11:57:43 PM

Amen.  Our problem is the failure of individuals to accept any responsiblity for their own actions/stupidity.  That leaves government to take the lead which is sometimes overkill.

Name:	lumberdude -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/13/2016 5:11:11 PM

Hello- new member, and also a long-time worker in the treated lumber business. Here are some observations that might be of some use in planning your building projects involving treated wood. Again, just my personal opinion based on a lot of years being around the product:

• The 'old' treated lumber preservative was used from the 1930s through the early 2000's. While arsenic got all of the attention, it was used only in levels that were below normal naturally-occuring levels as defined by most states. The Clinton EPA left a little booby trap for the Bush folks in the form of exponentially higher detection thresholds, which in turn set the stage for class action lawsuits. In response, the old chemical was phased out, and it was replaced by a variety of new chemicals. While the old chemical was pretty much a standard formulation, the new ones vary in their composition.
• The new preservative mixes do not contain as much copper, which gave treated lumber its greenish tint. That tint also served to cover mold and fungus which may have started to grow on the lumber prior to treating. What that means is that you are more likely to see dark mold residue on treated lumber today, even if it is no longer growing.
• Some of the new mixes have had problems properly adhering to the wood cells. Alongside this, the extra margin of preservative engineered into the chemical has been slowly but steadily reduced in response to pressure from large retailers to 'cheapen up' the product. These two things have combined to make pressure treated lumber have a shorter life than it did 15+ years ago.
• The move to all ground contact is a response to the point listed above. While the old chemical had two levels of retention, 'ground contact' and  'above ground only' (.40 and .25 to you old hands), the above ground would work in many cases where there was minimal ground contact. That is not the case with the new stuff. Two of the three major chemical manufacturers have had issues with shortened lifespans in their above ground chemical, and the move to all ground contact is mainly an effort to get more chemical into the wood.
•  The preservative composition is between 98-99% water, so it is still pretty wet when it goes to the retailer. The preservative has no effect on the movement of the lumber; it only keeps it from rotting. Get it fastened down before it dries, then give it at least a few weeks (in the summer) to dry out. After it dries, put a sealer on it, and plan on redoing this as a maintenance item every few years. The goal is to minimize water going into and drying back out of the wood. It-the water- has the same effect as bending a coat hanger back and forth until it breaks. In this case, the movement results in warping, twisting, cupping, and splintering. This is a natural thing for pine wood, but you can minimize it with a sealer.
• Some sealer manufacturers do more marketing than others- I don't know if there is that much difference in performance. That question might be better answered by a painter. The point is, be ready to do some sealer work to keep your deck, dock, or pier in good shape.

Kind of long, but hopefully some of this will be helpful with your projects.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	FYI: Pressure Treated Lumber
Date:	6/13/2016 8:49:31 PM

thank you, Sir. Sounds like experience to me....