Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/7/2017 9:39:07 AM

We are going to see a whole lot of men in Congress drop like fly's as this is probably the first resignation due to behavior prior to being elected.  Also clears the deck for the Senate to remove Moore should he win next week.  And this will be a bipartisan issue and I can't understand why that one GOP Rep that paid out of the slush fund is still there.  Time to drain the swamp of these perverts, reprobates and harrassers.

An editorial comment on the sudden rush to eject this moron.  Don't think for a minute they would do this if the Governor of MN was a Republican.  Not a chance.  Also, don't think for a minute this isn't about clearing the decks for trying to impeach Trump for actions before he came to office if they get control of the House.  That is a done deal if they get the majority and if they also control the Senate he will be convicted.  That is what the 2020 midterms will be about and yet another reason to hold your nose and vote for Moore.

Name:	Casey -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/7/2017 1:16:57 PM

WHAT? You are celebrating Franken's resignation and mentioned it is time to "drain the swamp of these perverts, etc....". Yet you think one should vote for Moore and put another pervert there. Incongruous, at best.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/7/2017 1:29:35 PM (updated 12/7/2017 2:11:07 PM)

Please re-read what I wrote.  I would vote for Moore (if I could....but I can't) for the simple reason that the resignation of Alfrankenperv clears the way for the Senate to remove Moore if they so desire and then the Guv can replace him with a Republican. Absent the duplicity of the media in waiting until he was the nominee to release this information, we would not even be talking about Moore because he wouldn't have won the primary.  Does anyone think that Strange or another less compromised candidate would lose to Jones?  Sessions won with over 90% of the vote.  This entire mess was manufactured by the real leader of the Demcrat party, the govt media complex.  Rewarding them for this is a mistake.

But my comment about draining the swamp was bipartisan in nature.  Hence, my question about why the GOP Rep that used the slush fund was still there.  I don't care about which party is impacted.  But I ask you, do you really believe these Democrats would take such a principled stand if the Governor of the states that Conyers and Franken represents were a Republican?  I don't and if the shoe were on the other foot I don't think the GOP would either.  Besides, what exactly are the Democrats giving up by forcing Conyers and Franken to resign?  Answer?  Nothing, zip, zero, nada........meanwhile many in the stupid party are doing the opposite and will sacrifice a Senate seat by opposing Moore.  Such is politics but the Dems deserve no praise for what they are doing.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Whaaaa.
Date:	12/7/2017 3:44:29 PM (updated 12/7/2017 4:01:13 PM)

I completely agree with the arguments of MM's first paragraph but it is completely negated by the nonsense in his 2nd paragraph.

how in the name of reason is it unacceptable for a Senator to hold office for unsavory activities he confesses to have engaged in before he held office but OK for a president who has confessed to even more sleazy acts.  Sure, he denies doing "it" to the women who accuse him but he brags about doing it to women in general! 

If Al Franken is disgusting and unqualified to hold office how is Donald Trump not disgusting and not disqualified to hold office.  The hypocrisy on all sides is rather breathtaking!

And BTW MM, I agree the Democrats would likely not be taking such a worthy stand in the Gov of MN was a Republican.  Will you agree that the Republicans in the Senate would not take a similarly worthy stand against Roy Moore (an unlikely event regardless of Franken in my opinion) if the Gov of AL was a Democrat?  Come on now, be honest!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whaaaa.
Date:	12/7/2017 4:15:12 PM

Democrats are desperate to find a way to force Trump to resign.  But they shouldn't hold their breath.  

I'm still not voting for Moore.  I have to live with myself forever.  and it is bad enough I voted for Obama twice.

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Whaaaa.
Date:	12/7/2017 5:42:45 PM

Not to belabor the point, tdog, but as I've said, if you don't vote for Moore you are voting for jones. Politics is almost always supporting the lesser of two evils. Which is more evil: Jones support of partial birth abortion and selling fetus body parts, or Moore flirting with younger ladies?  If it becomes revealed that Moore is guilty of anything more than flirting it will come out before the next election and he will be voted out. To me it is not a difficult choice, unless one wants to fret over it and make it a difficult choice.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Moldyyoldy
Date:	12/7/2017 5:59:35 PM

I don't care about the flirting with young ladies.  If it was criminal at the time, they and their parents should have brought a ciminal case. If he was courting 14 or 17 year olds while he was in his 30s, it implies to me that he was immature, and that these girls parenst should have done a better job parenting.  

My problem with Moore is that he was removed from office not once, but twice, that he shows no regard for a Supreme Court decision (which says to me that he thinks he is above the law) and that he and his wife took money took money from a charity for their own personal use.  I don't believe he will represent me in Congress.  So if that means because I don't vote, Doug Jones gets in, then that'll be the way it goes.  The Supreme Court ruled on the abortion issues back in the 70s.  I'm of the mind - if you don't believe in abortion, don't have one.  I only support partial birth abortion when it involves rape, incest or the mother's health is at risk.  But that is an argument for another day.  I haven't changed my position on abortion in the last 30 years.  

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Moldyyoldy
Date:	12/7/2017 7:00:21 PM

My understanding is he drew a salary and travel expenses from the charity he worked at. That's no different than any other charity in the country. Jones campaign is trying to make it sound like Moore did something unethical by being paid for the work he did.

On disobeying supreme court decision, he was making a point about limits on federal authority. If he had refused to leave his office I might agree with you. But he took a position knowing it would probably get him dismissed from his position of supreme court justice and he left when he was dismissed, without any whining or blm style street riots. To me that is a sign of character. How many politicians nowadays would stand by their guns knowing it would cost them their positions of power? Very few, imo.

Name:	Moldyoldy -	Reply
Subject:	Moldyyoldy
Date:	12/7/2017 7:35:18 PM

However, that being said, I am under no illusion that Roy Moore will be a good little senator and sit in his office and collect a paycheck. He is going to washington to raise hell, and I look forward to it. He will make many politicians on both sides of the aisle very uncomfortable with the issues he will raise and the positions he will take. All the media will take delight in telling us in alabama what a bunch of ignorant hillbillies we are to have him as our senator. But as far as im concerned dc, the media, and blue states in general can kma. I look forward to seeing the ruckus moore raises.

Name:	Casey -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/8/2017 7:59:17 AM

Franken said, "I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party. But this decision is not about me. It's about the people of Minnesota."  I have to respect him for that and agree with him....he's right. Ah, the irony.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/8/2017 9:27:16 AM

We shall see whether this is a real resignation or not.  Who announces that they will resign in the coming weeks?  I suspect he wants to see what happens with the Alabama special election.  I am betting if Moore wins he will withdraw his resignation until Moore is removed.  Either way, I have a hard time admiring Franken given his history and his non-apology related the these accusations.  Likewise I do not admire Roy Moore but I would vote for him because of the timing of the accusations being made public.  If they are true then he will be removed and Gov Ivey can appoint a Republican to replace a Republican just like will happen with Conyers and Franken (assuming he ever leaves).

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Moldyyoldy
Date:	12/8/2017 1:31:21 PM

Unfortunately, Washington doesn't favor junior senator's who want to raise hell.  Moore is a shoot from the hip guy, not a thinker and they will bury him.  He doesn't have the credibility of a John McCain, or a Paul Ryan (who is viewed as a deep thinker).  Even his fellow Albamiam Senators and Congressmen don't like or respect him.  Politics is about convincing other people to buy into your vision, not by standing on an iceberg shouting about how right you are.  Good politicians inspire others, they don't alienate them.  Moore will be viewed as a nut.  

As far as being a sign of integrity that you will stand up for your beliefs even if it costs you your job?  Well, what good does that do?  Then you are on the outside, where you can do nothing.  When you have integrity, you convince others of the rightness of your position, you don't shove it down their throats.  In my mind, integrity is the ability to compromise around the edges, while maintaining your core truth. Sometimes you have to give up one thing, to get the thing you most care about.   

I think Alabama does have to choose it's representatives more carefully, because it effects how the rest of the nation views you.  No one thinks of Alabama as a leader in the rest of the nation.  And that is not a good position to be in.  You can still be progressive, and be a conservative at your core, but only if you are able to convince others to see your vision.  Politics has always been give and take - it doesn't mean that you give up your integrity, but you realize that your way is not the only way.  And you can take a lot of different routes to get there.  It's like when you are a manager - if you force people into doing things your way, because you can get what you want, but a lot of people will be unhappy and you risk losing some of your best people.  But if you acknowledge that their way might not be your way, but it still works, then everyone is happy.

Name:	Casey -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/8/2017 8:23:06 PM (updated 12/8/2017 8:32:08 PM)

But I think Republicans should tread carefully. If Moore wins, he'll have done so with the backing of Alabama's voters....AFTER they are informed about the allegations against him. Just imagine the backlash among the GOP base if McConnell overturned the will of the people. Expulsions are rare. They threaten voters' democratic right to choose their representatives. And if they elect him and don't eject him, they'll be seen as tolerating someone who is credibly accused of hanging around shopping malls to prey on young girls.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Alfrankenperv's resignation - tip of the iceberg
Date:	12/8/2017 9:46:53 PM

That's a fair point but what are the voters of Alabama going to do to punish the GOP?  They won't vote for Jones or another Democrat just to punish McConnell. And they won't blame Trump or Ivey. They may be upset but if Ivey picks someone they can live with by the time the seat is up for reelection they will have moved on.  The reality is that the voters of Alabama want a real conservative and if this happens (Moore is elected, ejected and replaced) and they aren't stupid and replace him with Strange or another RINO it will work out OK. Lots of ifs.....none of which changes my rationale for why I would vote for him if I could, regardless of his creepy behavior 30 years ago.  No way would I reward the govt media for their partisan duplicity or their lacky Democrat politicians that work for them. That would be cutting off your nose to spite your face.