Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Who and what is essential?
Date:	1/19/2019 9:23:40 AM (updated 1/19/2019 9:29:09 AM)

It would seem that all that is necessary... is for the President to produce an executive order that declares ALL federal first line responder and safety employeees as “essential.”  This should include all first line law enforcement officers, TSA agents, park rangers, military, and Coast Guard.  Air traffic controllers are essential to air safety.  The fact that this IS NOT the case should give rise to the question: “Is this whole condition manufactured to create angst among the citizenry?”

If our enemies and criminal actors are not having a shut down, then we are publicly declaring ourselves defenseless at the federal level.

This shut down is publicly about a $5.7B budget request.  We had $220B to bail out GM and Chrysler.  We had $180B to send to Iran.  It costs over $100B to support illegal aliens in this country in one year.  OMB could find $5.7B in a heartbeat.  It’s all smoke-and-mirrors anyway. In the face of our $20T budget deficit… only pocket change.

No… this “manufactured” event is about shutting off the attraction to immigrate illegally and the ease with which it is accomplished.  If we simply created a one-way opening in the border and force fed the illegals back into Mexico, we could resolve a lot of issues… especially concerning the role of Mexico in the onslaught of illegal aliens. Perhaps if Mexico had to bear the burden of their own complicity… they might reconsider aiding and abetting.  Maybe we ought to close the ports of entry for… say a week or a month… in order to turn the screws on Mexico.  Mexican complicit behavior is a key element of illegal migration.  The Mexican government should ponder that… painfully.

An additional step is that ALL petitions for asylum MUST be submitted through a consulate.  No requests for asylum can originate on American soil.  We could build a special consulate in Mexico for less than $5.7B.

This is an ARTIFICIAL humanitarian crises.  The main actors in the crises brought it on themselves.  The vast majority of American taxpayers DID NOT volunteer to pay for their health care and welfare… and DID NOT offer them jobs.  As for the criminals and terrorists among them… we should carefully consider how welcome they are when they violate our sovereignty.

President (and CEO) Trump must stay the course… not so much for the money… but, for the concept of law, order, sovereignty and safety.

The Democrats want absolute power… and they are willing to prolong the crises to get it.  The Conservatives are holding out for law, order, sovereignty and safety… which will soon be nothing but a patriot's dream.

- LMF Curmudgeon

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	Who and what is essential?
Date:	1/19/2019 9:36:05 AM

great post--cant wait to see the 'opposition' rebuttal(s) --if any dare

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Who and what is essential?
Date:	1/19/2019 10:30:26 AM

Could it be? Could the "shutdown" be a Trump trap? A proverbial rock and hard place for establishment democrats and republicans and the 'deep state'? The impossible choice...fund the wall to end the shutdown before the 'reduction in force' can trigger or stand your ground and have all your insiders purged in a permanent reduction of federal workers? Back in the spring of 2017, Trump had unveiled his proposed budget that called for slashing federal workforces. ( https://thehill.com/blogs/pundits-blog/lawmaker-news/328899-brace-yourself-federal-employees-the-reductions-in-force-are ) There have been repeated reports of federal employees protected in their positions due to federal employment rules that were "resisting" Trump and complaints by Department heads stating that they could not get much done because of many of the "workers" within the federal government. As the article lays out below, the OMB issued guidance on 'Reduction in Force' (RIF). Read the link above from 2017... Trump wanted to do it then. If the current shutdown runs past 30 days (which is quickly approaching) then Trump may have just 'checkmated' the 'deep state', dems and establishment republicans by purging the federal government of all of their peeps working or 'resisting' to preserve the moronic state religion until they get rid of 'orange man'. Tweet, tweet, meme, tweet..... Make them look left while you juke right.... cancelling Pelosi's private jet, leaving her bags on a luggage cart outside her office.... this shutdown may not be about a Wall at all but about reaching the necessary time period to "legally" start reducing a bloated federal workforce. He could be after both... wall funding and RIF. Trump may just get his cake and eat it too. Interesting article.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Who and what is essential?
Date:	1/19/2019 10:36:24 AM

https://www.americanthinker.com/blog/2019/01/omb_issues_guidance_on_reduction_in_force_layoffs_due_to_partial_shutdown.html

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 10:52:00 AM

stable genius! 

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 11:02:36 AM (updated 1/19/2019 11:51:48 AM)

as I've said many times ( as a private business owner-many of these beaucratemployees  could never survive outside federal protection  in the private sector; I will never forget going to the VA in Atlanta in 1990 to try to help a disabled vet a VA mortgage; as i was escorted to the Regional Managers office ( a friend by the way) I  passed cubicle after cubicle; I counted 7 clerks in the Guarantee division NAPPING; and dont even get me started on FHA; after 44 years of dealing with these 2 agencies I could write a best seller; my only regret after getting out of the ARMY is I should have run for Congress

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 12:49:17 PM

Now FF, you wouldn’t want to join the Society of Useless Gubment Employees, would you?

Name:	lucky67 -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 1:04:24 PM

For a lifetime pension & health benefits ?? Yes

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 5:52:13 PM

The gubment opportunity presented itself many years ago, but I just couldn’t stand life in a bureaucracy dealing with the slugs for years.  And I have absolutely no regrets.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 6:20:59 PM

A bunch of nothing.  He just doesn't come across as very believable when he reads from a teleprompter.  He told us Mexico will pay and now he wants me to pay. He is having a tough time dealing with a strong woman.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 7:11:29 PM

What the hell are you responding to??

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 7:49:44 PM

"will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?" What else do I need to explain to my FB???

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 8:30:40 PM (updated 1/19/2019 8:32:00 PM)

Read my post at 5:52......that’s what you responded to.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 8:58:05 PM

I'm sure all of you are nice people, but your comments regarding govermment employees in general, and specificially about RIFs, are off the scale ignorant, and none of you have a clue.  You don't know anything about RIFs, RIF procedures or what it would cost.  Just here in your little echo chamber you think you sound so smart.  But in fact, your comments are ignorant and shwo anyone who knows anything about working for the government just how ill informed you are.  

And Wix, I would like to have seen how long you would have survived in any of the jobs I had in the last 15 years of my career.  I would give you half a day and it wouldn't be because of dealing with "slugs".  You all go into something field office of the VA or the SS for 15 minutes and draw conclusions about an entire workforce.  I spent years, flying all around the world, promoting the sale of sophisicated defense equipment, so our own military could affrod to have the best, and also to keep our own defense industry working.  Have you ever worked on an international competition to sell U.S. helicopters to a foreign government against it's Eurpoean competiores, while worrying not only about tech transfer, jobs in the US. versus jobs Europe and at the same time watching currency values, because at the end of the day, it is all about jobs and $$?   Or have you ever sat across the table from senior foreign government officials explaining why they can't have our most sensitive technology, despite our "special" relationship?  Or for that matter, met with members of U.S. industry who make thermal night vision camera's and explain why we can''t allow them to sell said devices to fire departments all over China, when it will mean millions to their bottom line?  Or explained to a General why we are allowing certain devices to foreign companies, despite his concerns that this will put his soldiers in danger?  Or explained to a Japanese company why they most implemtn a system of complete control over every ngith visioin device that they want to put in their cars?  

Have you ever handled explaining to a bunch of foreign generals that we have been supporting with equipmet that thanks to a chnage in our government pollicy, they would not be getting more?  I could go on and on about situations that I am sure you have never dealt with.  As I see it, you just took the easier road.  What is it that you are retired from??  

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 10:56:10 PM

Hound, we all know how proud you are of your career and that’s fine....just not me.  What did I do for a career?  I worked my entire career in a job that provided a very good income, if I was successful.  If I wasn’t successful my family didn’t eat....my responsibility.  No paid vacations, no free health insurance, no paid travel expenses, no big title or fancy office, and no union to back me up...not the career you would understand, but I absolutely loved my work.  I am sure there are qualified employees in many gubment jobs, but they are certainly not in the majority.  My last duty station in the military had 26 generals, 74 colonels, and more majors than captains, all in one building, and the incompetence was unbelievable.  I made my career decision then.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/19/2019 11:33:09 PM

"My last duty station in the military had 26 generals, 74 colonels, and more majors than captains, all in one building, and the incompetence was unbelievable.  I made my career decision then."

Guess, like Trump, you were smarter than the Generals. Since you were so much smarter...you should have stayed in cause you would obviously have retired as a 6 star General.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GOOF-KRAP sixth graders
Date:	1/20/2019 8:46:59 AM

can identify incompetence.  Superior intelligence is not required to recognize a “system” designed in such a way as to prevent initiative, and maintain the status quo....that leads to incompetence.  You can only beat your head on the wall for so long....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	will trump announce a RIF today at 3:00?
Date:	1/20/2019 5:23:16 PM

The point is that there is no "free" healthcare.  Yes, there are vacation days which are quite generous after you have been there 15 years - most civilians do not use all of their vacation days- which by the way, they get in trouble when they don't.  Yes, there is the ability to accrue sick leave - but govt employees don't get disability like other workers, so if you are out for 6 weeks, and you don't have 6 weeks of accrued six leave - then you don't get paid.   As far as the "free air travel" - in as many trips that I took, I never once made money on it - yes, I got a ticket - for the cheapest price, not usually conveniently routed, and always in steerage.  Have you ever sat for 15 hours in steerage?  And the hotels that per diem pays for?  Not exactly luxury, and most of the time, it didn't include enough money to cover the cost of meals.  

And yes there is a bureaucracy.  I don't know where you worked that had all those senior and field grade officers in one place, but here is a hint.  The military is set up to follow a chain of command  - innovation and creative thiking is not discouraged, but you have to be able to sell it.   You have to expect to be questioned and to prove that your way is the right way.  But keep in mind - the military is set up so that if one soldier falls, the next steps up and carries on.  When you are in combat, there is no time for discussion, debate, building consensus.  You have to trust that those around you know what they are doing.  Now, when yhou work in the Pentagon, there is plenty of time for discussion, white papers, meetings, etc - but if you are not a person that can organize your thoughts , be logical and concise, you will not be entertained.  No innocation?  Ever hear of Joint Stike Fighter?  Well, I led a team to come up with viable ways to export technology information, and methods with foreign companies, some of the most sensitive technology that exists (and believe me, you would not believe the innovation in that airplane).  It was the first time we had a co-development of the most sophisicted technologies with other foeeign companies (so the countries buying could sell the buy of the F-35 to their own govenments with workshare).  

If you foudn you weren't suited to the military or the governmental work, well , it was probably a good thing you did something else.  I'm not trying to impress anyone with what I did, becasue it was over 11 years since I worked anywhere; however, before people start throwing around terms like "non-essential" and "RIF" so casually, and I hear you talking about "slugs", well, it gets my Irish up.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	FERS provides disability insurance
Date:	1/21/2019 10:22:41 AM

Hound, this may have changed since you retired but FERS does provide short- and long-term disability insurance.  It is employer paid so the payments are taxed, which is not so great. Here is a description of the benefit under FERS.  It's similar to private disability insurance but since the benefits are employer paid Federal employees would be wise to also get personal disability insurance as well.  The premium is usually pretty reasonable.  Between the two programs you would have very good coverage at a low cost.

ERS disability benefits are computed in different ways depending on your age and your number of completed years of service. Once you have qualified for benefits, they are computed as follows.

• Benefits for the first 12 months of disability: You are eligible for 60% of your high-3 average salary minus 100% of your Social security benefit for any month in which you are entitled to Social Security benefits (obviously not an issue for younger employees).
• Benefits after the first 12 months of disability: You are eligible for 40% of your high-3 average salary minus 60% of your Social Security benefit for any month in which you are entitled to Social Security disability benefits.
• Benefits after age 62: Depending on your number of years of service, you are either eligible for 1% or 1.1% of your high-3 average for each year of service.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	FERS provides disability insurance
Date:	1/21/2019 12:36:37 PM

No, I have not seen that before.  That seems very generous.  I have to say that I am not all that familiar with FERS, since I was under the old CSRS, which offers a much better retirement plan.  I know my father was out of work for 6 months at one point (he had an burst artery in his stomach back in the 70s, before they had MRI and CAT and all those other diagnosis tools).  He was lucky that he had saved his sick leave and had enough to cover it so he got paid.  

I wonder if some enterprising insurance company will come up with a plan you can buy for when the government is shut down becasue they can't agree on the budget???  I understand why Trump isn't going to open the government without some kind of a sign of good faith bargaining, but I feel sorry for those not working and working that aren't getting paid, especially if both married people work for the government as my husband and I did.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	FERS provides disability insurance
Date:	1/21/2019 1:19:45 PM

Their disability program is pretty typical, at least based on what I've seen in the private sector.  My company used to pay the disability insurance premium for our employees but changed that when we learned that the payments would be taxable.  We grossed up their salaries and had them pay it so ti wuldn't be taxed if they needed it.  It already stinks needing disability and only getting 60% of your wages.  Even worse when that lesser amount is taxed.  The smart govt employees would get a personal disability policy as well.  

In some ways I sympathize with the employees but the reality is that this is always extra paid vacation.  My wife was with EPA when the long closure happened and they told the employees they would be paid back pay when the shutdown ended.  Frankly, if I worked for the govt I would make sure I had enough savings to cover a shutdown.  To do otherwise is not very wise.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	FERS provides disability insurance
Date:	1/21/2019 1:20:06 PM (updated 1/21/2019 1:23:24 PM)

Like you,I feel sorry for those not working as do "most" people. The "one exception" is Pelosi, Schumur, and fellow Democrats whose only "mindset" is to get Trump. They live in their fenced/walled "Ivory Towers" with "body guards" paid for by we "taxpayers" and to "HELL" with anyone else.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	FERS provides disability insurance
Date:	1/21/2019 10:16:01 PM

That seems to be a necessary plan these days.  I don't think that now I would make the government my career.  Yes, the salaries are good (at least at the higher levels), but the retirmeent isn't what it used to be, and there is always a chnace that the government will decide to tap into your TSP and leave an IOU, as they did with Social Security.  While I enjoyed my career, now I would just do a few years for the experience and do something else.  It's just too political now.