Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Just Wondering
Date:	7/3/2019 1:15:05 PM

Just wondering who is lying????

• President Donald Trump on Wednesday called news reports that the Commerce Department would drop its plans to ask people if they are U.S. citizens on the 2020 census “FAKE."
• Trump’s claim came a day after Commerce Secretary Wilbur Ross said the Census Bureau is in the process of printing the census questionnaire without the citizenship question.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Just Wondering
Date:	7/3/2019 1:51:37 PM

Who gives a flip Fish, the issue is if the question "are you a US citizen" was asked on the 1820, 1830, 1870, 1880, 1890, 1900, 1910, 1920, 1930, 1940 and 1950 census forms, why is it not appropriate now? Immigration was a problem then too. 

I despise Roberts.  First Obamacare and now this.  The Deep State has something over on him....

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Just Wondering
Date:	7/3/2019 2:03:48 PM

"The Deep State has something over on him...."    Do you mean like what Putin has over Trump?????

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Just Wondering
Date:	7/3/2019 5:09:33 PM

Nah...., more like what Soros, Farrahkan, Wright, and Alinsky had on little narcissist, puppet-in-chief Obama.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Just Wondering
Date:	7/3/2019 11:40:44 PM

I undestand that the Justice Department is going to make a legal case to include the question - and Trump will put a hold on the Census until he wins. Frankly, I don't see anything wrong with the question.  only the paranoid and those with something to hide object to it.  

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Here's what is wrong with it
Date:	7/4/2019 12:08:37 AM (updated 7/4/2019 12:19:39 AM)

The constitution requires that in order to determine representation in congress, every 10 years there will be a census that accurately counts ALL persons in the country.  It doesn't say all citizens, or all males, or all landowners, or all whites, (even in slavery days each slave was counted as one person even though for congressional representation the were only credited as 3/5's a person)...it says ALL persons and that includes even persons who are ''paranoid or think they have something to hide''!  If some non-citizen persons, paranoid or not, fail to participate in the count because it includes a question that they correctly or incorrectly fear may put them in danger, then the constitutionally mandated count will be inaccurate in a way that is beneficial to the Republican party...exactly what  Trump wants!  Hound, I know it, you know it, and every single person reading this forum knows it!  I suspect that is why you and most on the forum have absolutely no problem with an inaccurate count and in fact prefer such.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	CRD
Date:	7/4/2019 12:30:57 AM

Who would you honestly rate as the biggest narcissist...Barack Obama or Donald Trump*?  Remember, it is a sin to tell a lie.

Now, who do you honestly think is the biggest liar...Barack Obama or Donald Trump?  Remember, it is a sin to tell a lie!

* Remind me which year it was that Barack Obama used millions of tax dollars and hundreds (thousands?) of military personnel and hauled in on rail cars many tons of military equipment to provide a backdrop for a self aggrandizing ''look at the great one!'' rally on July 4th?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	The Answer
Date:	7/4/2019 2:15:18 AM

The Trump lawyers told the court that July 1 was the deadline to start printing the form. Now, Trump wants them to go back to court and give them another deadline to print and admit they lied. I have a feeling the DOJ will refuse to go back to the court. Then, Trump has a decision of defying the court since the President can't be jailed.

I bet tomorrow's crowd will be larger than when Martin Luther King spoke.  Just ask Trump.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Here's what is wrong with it
Date:	7/4/2019 8:13:47 AM

Archie, you hit the solution!  Count illegals as 3/5’s, problem solved!  

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Here's what is wrong with it
Date:	7/4/2019 9:45:55 AM

Archie, 

I know it, you know it, Hound knows it, when Obama removed the question in 2010, it was to hide the illegal immigrants for a time being until they could be registered to vote.  The constitutionality of the question is settled law.  It is being held up by a process issue.  You have failed to reply to everyone's question -  Why can a sovereign nation not have the right to know just who is living within its borders?  Go back and read the questions that have been asked in previous census's over the past 200 years.  I am sure you will find some objectionable questions.  The problem with you all is that this question has been on the long form since 65, it was removed by O and now that Trump is putting it back in, your TDS flares up.  Hope you enjoy the DC celebration today, I will watch because of my respect for the military men and women who protect us, and the love I have for this great nation of ours.  I know you will boycott because your handlers told you not to watch, and by all means, don't think for yourself.  Happy 4th.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	CRD
Date:	7/4/2019 9:52:37 AM

Obama mentioned himself 400 times in a 90 minute speech in Germany in April. 

Classic.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	CRD
Date:	7/4/2019 11:21:47 AM

Just "reminding" you that in "eight" years Obama "increased" the National Debt 10 TRILLION DOLLARS>

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Here's what is wrong with it
Date:	7/4/2019 12:51:58 PM

Well I have a problem with your assumption that the census is accurate to start with.  There are many people, not just illegals and others, who refuse to respond to the Census.  The Census then takes the information and manipulates it into various counts used by a number of government and social institutions.  So if, as you say, the Constitution merely states that all people be counted, don't you think it would be a good thing to know that breakout of citizens vs. non citizens.  Don't you think that would be useful information??  The thing is, the illegals will do anything they can to not reveal their status.  I had a firiend that signed up to be a census taker in the last census - not realizing that it can be a dangerous job - she was threatened and cursed out and refused.  Now if the count is as benign as you seem to think, would that be the case?  And i believe the Constitution only calls for a count, and does not specify the questions to be asked.  

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Buteye
Date:	7/4/2019 2:20:54 PM (updated 7/4/2019 2:25:18 PM)

Try to be honest and tell us about the national debt under Trump. Forget it... I will do it for you.....

"As a candidate, Donald Trump promised to get rid of the entire national debt “over a period of eight years.” When this promise was made, the national debt stood at $19 trillion; it has since risen to $21.7 trillion. In the fiscal year ending September 30, it grew by $779 billion, up 17 percent from $666 billion in fiscal 2017. This year, after the Trump tax cuts take full effect, another $1 trillion worth of government IOUs will be issued."
 

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Careful, Hound
Date:	7/4/2019 4:29:06 PM

You are asking him to think.

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Deficit
Date:	7/4/2019 5:37:43 PM

if Trump is re-elected the budget will see massive cuts especially if the house and senate return to republican magority.  And if he succeeds in ending wars, look to massive savings in that area.  If, if, if.   

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	CRD's fake news
Date:	7/4/2019 5:47:21 PM (updated 7/4/2019 5:56:36 PM)

You have learned well from your orange haired mentor...if the facts don't support your claim make up alternate facts that do!

FACT: ''Are you a citizen'' has not been on the general 10 year census since 1950!

FACT:  Barack Obama did NOT remove the question from the 2010 census...it was never planned to be on the 2010 census

FACT:  The claim that Obama did the above was just one more lie spouted by Trump's Liar in Chief...Sarah Huckabee Sanders.

FACT:  The non-partisan professional statiticians that plan the census agree unanimously that a citizenship question would make it impossible to obtain an accurate count of ALL persons living in the country as charged by the US Constitution.

FACT:  The Census does know how many non-citizens are in the US based on other information gathered from time to time using a survey of smaller numbers of the population. They do not know who the non-citizens are...that is not their job.

FACT:  This nation does have a right to know who is or is not a citizen, but it in doing so it does not have the right to corrupt the constitutional requirement of an accurate count of ALL persons...the Bureau of Census is not the Immigration and Naturalization Service.

FACT:  Read what the Supremes said...translated to commom everyday English they said Trump lied to their face.

FACT|:  If you pop off before getting the ''facts'' you end up sounding like an idiot!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Mr H
Date:	7/4/2019 7:10:33 PM

I do think...that is why I see through the BS being spouted from both sides in DC today.  Just because you don't agree with the statements and opinions resulting from mine or anybody elses thoughts doesn't mean they are not thinking nor does it mean what they think is always wrong.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	The Answer
Date:	7/4/2019 7:13:12 PM (updated 7/4/2019 7:15:08 PM)

Well I would hope so...it is certainly more significant than any other words ever spoken from the Lincoln Memorial!  My guess is about 12 million maybe 14!  I'm, sure we will all be told the ''facts'' as soon as the finish the count!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	WOW!
Date:	7/4/2019 7:20:24 PM

Well that settles it!! If Obama said his name every 13 seconds in a speach he is not only the supreme narcissist but the world's fastest talker.  Where do you guys come up with this crap?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Obama shamed again!
Date:	7/4/2019 7:24:56 PM (updated 7/4/2019 7:27:26 PM)

At the current rate of increase in the National debt, Trump if he gets a 2nd term (horrors!) will easily top Obama in yet another statistic!

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	CRD's fake news
Date:	7/4/2019 7:59:12 PM

How The ‘Citizenship Question’ Changed Over The Decades

A question about citizenship or naturalization has been included on the census for either all households or selective households, on and off, since 1820.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	CRD's fake news
Date:	7/4/2019 8:07:06 PM

Obama got rid of the long form in 2010 which had the citizenship question.  The ACS, which had the question, was only mailed to 3.5million households.  Get your facts straight dufus.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	WOW!
Date:	7/4/2019 8:14:24 PM

Washington Times.  Are you questioning their veracity?

Name:	Carlson -	Reply
Subject:	Obama shamed again!
Date:	7/4/2019 10:14:34 PM

Nope.  The crying will be so loud in the wake of reducing significantly the deficit.  The children will be the crying theme but it won’t work.  6 more years will drive Archie over the edge, sorry archie!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Yep
Date:	7/5/2019 9:28:17 AM

Yoi can do your own fact check on Google if you want to read the facts.  Of course sometime the facts are not “important” if they don’t reinforce what you are told to believe!

“

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Yep
Date:	7/5/2019 10:53:53 AM

As if you have never quoted the NYT's or WP.......

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Obama shamed again!
Date:	7/5/2019 4:38:00 PM

Obama who?

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	I'm the dufus?
Date:	7/5/2019 8:24:11 PM (updated 7/5/2019 8:30:19 PM)

Your own chart demonstrates that the citizenship question has not been on the general census form since 1950!  In recent years on the 5th year after the census the Bureau has taken a random survey of 3.5 million households to gather info including citizenship.  Those who actually understand statistics know that the random sample is an accurate way to get information.  This info is available to Dear Leader if he will simple ask for it!

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Even reasonable conservatives
Date:	7/5/2019 8:36:03 PM (updated 7/5/2019 8:38:51 PM)

who are not afraid of the truth will agree (admit) that the NYT and WP are real newspapers that print real verified facts while The Washington Times is only marginally better than the National Enquirer.

Have you Googled your claim yet?

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Even reasonable conservatives
Date:	7/7/2019 8:28:20 AM

Arch, how about the Washington Examiner.  Tabloid too?  The Obama reference is there too.

Regarding your statement that no citizenship question has been asked since 1950, factually you are correct, on the short form.  Look at the long form.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Why use tax money for redundancy...
Date:	7/7/2019 11:11:09 AM (updated 7/7/2019 11:25:14 AM)

especially if it also leads to an inaccurate count of what the constitution mandates for the census?

The census long form is not and was not what the vast vast majority received, but more to the point, the info (citizenship included)once gathered on the long from (1970 - 2000) has since 2000 been asked on a supplementary survey sent to 3.5 million in non-census years.  Statistic experts tell us that the information obtained on these inquiries is as accurate, and usually more accurate, than it would be if asked of everyone.  Now I know Trump does not believe in ''science'' including, apparently, statistical mathematics, but I would have thought a doctor would give the nod to science.

I have never read the Washington Examiner so do not assume to comment on their accuracy.  I do know Barack Obama never gave a 90 minute speech where he used his own name 400 times.  He did give a much shorter speech in which he used ''I'' and ''my'' many times...but most of the reference were regarding his ''hope'' for what good things were to come.  Barack Obama would say something along the line of ''I have great hope that the nations of the world will find a way to live in peace.''  Trump would say ''I am the only person capable of understanding what is good for America and bringing it about.''  There is the poitics of ''hope'' and then there is the politics of ''me''!

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Why use tax money for redundancy...
Date:	7/7/2019 2:19:35 PM

Your so called "statistic experts" and those that I rely upon to uphold the scientific research method, determine validity and reliability of various studies are dramatically different Archie.  I rely upon controls, randomization, p-values etc in order to be able to read a paper and judge it as well-designed or error prone.  I doubt that census statisticians utilize the same criteria for designing their long and short forms.

Some things Archie you simply don't understand well enough to comment upon, but that is what the rest of us are here for.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Obama shamed again!
Date:	7/8/2019 9:41:56 AM

He is already over the edge.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	The 2nd smartest man on the forum speaks
Date:	7/8/2019 8:32:24 PM

MM is of course the smartest!!

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	How about the third option...neither
Date:	7/9/2019 10:06:24 AM

Ross thinks it's over because of the SCOTUS decision.  Trump decides to keep on fighting and the latest news is there is a path to put it in.  Flash news for you Goofy, POTUS and the head of the Commerce Dept probably don't talk very often and its easy to get the messaging wrong that has nothing to do with someone lying.  I know leftists lie all the time so they naturally assume any conflicting statements are lies.  Sad way to live but all too common for the left. 

Time will tell but I am confident that the question will be in the Census.  I am equally confident that if it is left wing groups will start a campaign to convince illegals to lie about their status.  Watch and see.......

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	How about the third option...neither
Date:	7/9/2019 10:34:00 AM (updated 7/9/2019 10:34:22 AM)

I still wonder did SCOTUS actually block it?  It was not decided illegal or unconstitutional... just that that they decided that the administration did not document appropriatly why they claim to want it.  Reminds me of Slick Willy and his definition of "is" is....

But still not seeing where they said it was unconstitutional or against the law to have the question.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	How about the third option...neither
Date:	7/9/2019 11:50:38 AM

You are correct.  They provided a roadmap to include the question in the census.  But they did block it's inclusion in the 2020 Census as originally proposed.  I suspect all Trump needs to do is issue an Exec Order with the prescription in the decision and it will happen.  I have confidence in Barr to sort this out and I am likewise certain that some lower court will try to block it.  The executive and legislative branches need to restore their proper function and take away this fiat power from the judiciary.  

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	How about the third option...neither
Date:	7/9/2019 4:20:21 PM

Agreed, and I know it is probably not nice to piss off the SCOTUS.  but as a lawyer there when they put out the statement it was blocked - I would have asked if it was unconstitutional,  no - is it illegal,  no -- then what is the problem.  They are there to determine if it is illegal or unconstitutional - if they want "oversight" of the reason behind it that is not the job of SCOTUS.