Off-Topic: Insurance for Everyone
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Name:   copperline The author of this post is registered as a member - Email Member
Subject:   Insurance for Everyone
Date:   6/25/2017 10:12:23 AM

OK, I’ll bite on this one.

We have to make a decision … as a nation, as individuals & voters…. And I think we should begin the discussion by asking ourselves one basic question.

Is Healthcare going to be a Human Right or simply a Commercial Product?

If adequate healthcare for everyone in the US is a Right, then everyone should have access to it fairly and no one should be criticized for using it.   It is always going to be true that there are people who fraudulently obtain government benefits including healthcare, but just how does that number of fraudulent claims compare to the millions of disabled adults & children who really need these benefits because they cannot be expected to obtain commercial insurance thru employers?     Hacking large chunks of coverage from the entire program means taking coverage away from people who need it, while (maybe) kicking a few undeserving people off the rolls.  Conservatives start from the point of view that every system is full of graft, waste, misuse and underserving people, I would start from the point of view that the vast majority of that money goes to funding critical health services that mean the difference between life and death for many people.   I’m willing to tolerate that large systems (we could include every corporation, government, and any other organization here) have ‘waste’ and inefficiencies… but the core mission is what’s important.

By the way, when it comes to eligibility for these programs (like Medicaid or Social Security Disability), there are periodic case reviews to determine if someone needs to continue on the programs.  One such reviewing body is the Office of Disability Determination within the SS Department. 

If, on the other hand, healthcare is like any other commercial product… which seems to be the way Conservatives think of it, then you can only have what you can afford to buy and not one bit more.  

Currently, our national healthcare policy is split on this.   If you approach an Emergency Room with a sick child, they cannot turn you away if you do not have a way to pay for the care.   Your child will be assessed, recommendations made, hospitalized if necessary even if you don’t have insurance.   However, the care will not be adequate because hospitals don’t provide follow up care in an outpatient MD’s office, nor the medications needed to treat the child post-hospitalization.   The cost of your child’s care (limited as it is) will be borne by the hospital and becomes part of their ‘bad debt’… uncollectable.    This creates upward pressure on medical prices.  Add more uninsured patients, and you get more negative effects on the healthcare system that result in higher prices for everyone.

If Healthcare is a product, then that child has no right to any treatment unless you can afford to pay the price for the services at the time of delivery.   Simple as that.   And while it is unthinkable to turn that child away, it is the logic of conservative healthcare policy that this should be exactly what happens.  

Should private hospital corporations be forced to absorb the cost of caring for uninsured people or should they be free to protect themselves from ‘bad debt’ by declining to serve people who cannot pay? 

Do you want to give hospitals the right to protect their business by turning away people who can’t pay for it?   Auto repair shops have the right to turn you away if you can’t afford their services, we all accept the logic in that.    Should the healthcare system operate the same way? 

I frequently hear the complaints you have written about… that too many undeserving people get too-generous government benefits, that these cost too much and the answer is to drastically reduce the giveaway programs altogether.   That solution over-simplifies the situation and ignores reality.

People who are kicked off programs don’t just go away.   They continue to eat, breathe and get sick… their children get sick… and they aren’t just magically removed from the world.   People have to quit their jobs to take care of sick family members (that’s not good for the economy, is it?), declare bankruptcy to protect themselves from crushing medical bills.   Poorly treated medical problems become more expensive and the ever-increasing costs are passed as inflationary pressures on the system.   Talk about inefficiencies!  Untreated, a low cost illness can develop into an expensive life-threatening crisis in anyone’s life. 

Most importantly, though, is the question of Right vs. Product….  It has to be one or the other.

And if someone feels healthcare is just like any other consumer-product, then I would suggest they consider this:     Imagine yourself sitting in the waiting room of a hospital and being responsible for explaining to a man that he should take his sick child and leave the area unless he can afford to pay up front for the treatment he hoped for.   

If you can see yourself doing that sort of thing, then you support the Conservative approach to healthcare.

Other messages in this thread:View Entire Thread
Insurance for Everyone - Buteye - 6/25/2017 12:23:39 AM
     Insurance for Everyone - copperline - 6/25/2017 10:12:23 AM
          Insurance for Everyone - realfast64 - 6/25/2017 12:45:10 PM
          Insurance for Everyone - realfast64 - 6/25/2017 12:45:12 PM
          Insurance for Everyone - wix - 6/25/2017 3:24:32 PM
               Insurance for Everyone - Lifer - 6/25/2017 3:44:15 PM
                    Insurance for Everyone - Shortbus - 6/25/2017 6:04:41 PM
                         Insurance for Everyone - wix - 6/25/2017 7:26:14 PM
          Insurance for Everyone - phil - 6/26/2017 10:23:26 AM
     Insurance for Everyone - Talullahhound - 6/25/2017 10:32:11 PM
          Insurance for Everyone - copperline - 6/25/2017 11:38:14 PM
               Insurance for Everyone - Buteye - 6/26/2017 1:15:52 AM
               OK copperline, you blabbering idiot - Lifer - 6/26/2017 7:18:22 AM
               CopperFREE & Peeelosiuu - wix - 6/26/2017 7:35:06 AM
          Insurance for Everyone - Buteye - 6/26/2017 1:02:41 AM
     Insurance for Everyone - copperline - 6/26/2017 9:24:06 AM
          COPPER-giveaway - wix - 6/26/2017 9:38:07 AM
          Insurance for Everyone - Buteye - 6/26/2017 12:19:46 PM
               Insurance for Everyone - Talullahhound - 6/26/2017 2:04:55 PM
                    Insurance for Everyone - copperline - 6/26/2017 3:15:37 PM
                         Entitlement..????... - wix - 6/26/2017 3:26:36 PM
                         Insurance for Everyone - Talullahhound - 6/26/2017 8:49:34 PM
                              Nursing Home Medicaid - wix - 6/26/2017 10:13:05 PM
                              Hey Hound - GoneFishin - 6/26/2017 10:16:06 PM
     Insurance for Everyone - copperline - 6/26/2017 2:56:57 PM
          COPPER-dim - wix - 6/26/2017 3:22:50 PM
               COPPER-dim - phil - 6/26/2017 6:07:10 PM
                    COPPER-dim - copperline - 6/26/2017 7:43:17 PM
                    well, - copperline - 6/26/2017 7:46:35 PM
                         DIM-copper - wix - 6/26/2017 9:58:42 PM
                         well, - phil - 6/27/2017 8:54:51 AM
          Insurance for Everyone - Buteye - 6/26/2017 11:50:46 PM
               Poverty of convenience - wix - 6/27/2017 8:33:17 AM
     Final summary - copperline - 6/27/2017 11:56:40 AM
          Final summary - phil - 6/27/2017 12:27:43 PM
          Final summary - phil - 6/27/2017 12:27:43 PM
               Final summary - Buteye - 6/27/2017 12:36:36 PM
          Final summary - Buteye - 6/27/2017 12:34:08 PM



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