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	Name:	Talullahhound -
	Subject:	Martini
	Date:	10/2/2008 6:54:50 PM

Well, I guess you could say that his rise as an African American to attend Harvard Law School and become editor of the Law review is an accomplishment. He's written a book. He was smart enough to marry a very successful woman. He stood against the surge in Iraq. I believe he opposed the Iraq war from the beginning.

McCain says that he is against pork barrel spending, but he voted for it last night. I will give it to him that he doesn't ask for earmarks for AZ.
He's been in Congress for 20 years, so I would expect he would have more accomplishments than Obama in sponsoring bills and legislation. BTW he is about 30 years older than Obama too.
I agree that service to his country is admirable, but on the other hand, there were a lot of POWs. I don't think that makes him more of a hero or more of a patriot than anyone else that served. Certainly not more than those who gave their lives.

I can't agree that the surge is making us "win" in Iraq. We're still pouring money into that country while they are enjoying an $80B surplus from oil deals with China. Have we rebuilt their country? No. Most of them want us out. What exactly does "winning in Iraq" look like? I guess we will soon find out, because lost in all the noise about the financial crisis, was the Commander in Afghanistan saying he needs more troops immediately. The only place they can come from is Iraq.
I don't think you can declare victory in Iraq until we leave and see what happens. If the govt. holds, then I'll say we had a victory; but I don't think that will happen. Not because of Al Queda in Iraq, because they will follow and if we increase our forces in Afghanistan (where we should have put our forces all this time if we wanted to defeat terrorism), they will fight us there. When you plaster a country with US Forces and take them out of the Green Zone and put them out in the neighborhoods, the violence will decrease. But what happens when they are withdrawn? If the govt dissolves and they fall to another dictator, or if they erupt in civil war, will that still be our "win"? And if we have to still have a presence there for 10-20 years (as John McCain has predicted) then is that still a win?
Winning is very subjective and has to be defined before you can say we are winning.