| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/28/2009 10:41:18 AM
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come on Lake Insiders...what up with the FERC? Are we going to get a variance? Hell, it will be time to plug anyway in a few weeks...
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| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/28/2009 10:48:18 AM
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Now I see the picture. The variance is granted....ah shucks....it's too late to help. I am ready. Bring it on up
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/28/2009 9:41:31 PM
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Once again. Why? do we need a variance when:
1. The lake is at (actually above the last 5 years) it's winter average.
2. The drought is officially over.
3. It's F-ing freezing.
I don't understand why some people think we should change what has worked for almost 80 years just because we had one dry year.
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 5:45:23 AM
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Ok...I will play
"1. The lake is at (actually above the last 5 years) it's winter average.
2. The drought is officially over.
3. It's F-ing freezing."
1. So what, 2077 was horrible and 2003? or maybe 2001? was a very bad year too. Both years were extreemely dmaging to the local economy and would have been much better with a variance and earlier start. 20% + of the last 9 years have been very poor "water years"
2. Again see post numbe 1...we have been here before only a few years ago. What's the definition of insanity???
3. It is NOT about today Bro...you MUST start early if it is going to be a dry year and we do NOT know for certain what will happen.
Please explain to me the downside of plugging a month early in light of what I have just explained....
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 5:46:02 AM
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Of course I meant 2007 not 2077 in my previous post :)
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 4:39:13 PM
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We were an inch below average for both Nov and Dec and now 2 inches below for January. Thats 4 inches out of the ~15 inches we should have. 40% of our state is in an abnormally dry category, with parts of our watershed going from dry to extreme drought conditions. Sounds like a good reason to plug now.
As one of the business' that got hit very hard by '07, I am very concerned with our water level.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 4:50:04 PM
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I feel for the business's struggling from the low water, but do you think 15 or 20 day's of higher water in February are going to help.
The harm in filling early is losing the ability to control downstream flooding. The goal is to be full near the end of April, if you plug early and fill by the end of March and April is extremely wet, you can have a problem south of the lake.
Just my opinion.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 7:23:38 PM
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If flooding is the main concern, then we certainly shouldn't have full pool in the spring. To me, flood control is an illogical argument.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:17:40 PM
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What?
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:30:40 PM
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Well, flood control in the number one reason for the dam. recreation is last on the list. Course, APCO tries to balance that equation. Nobody wants to see harm come to anybody.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:35:04 PM
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I think au67 is confused. I'm not talking about lake flooding, the concern is the rivers down stream. You know, the whole point of the lake.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:40:17 PM
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There is that potential, yes. But if doable, that extra 3 (483 rile curve) feet earlier in the year means that if we have a dry spring we will have a higher water level longer into the summer.....that does translate to a fairly good business season. In the case of '07 we only got to 486 and by end of July we were at 482. I know our business slowed down immediately after July 4th and virtually evaporated by Aug.
The Old Farmers Almanac predicts above average rainfall after mid Feb. Hope that is correct. btw, how in heck do that do those forecasts?
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:47:12 PM
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I guess they have a 50/50 chance of looking really smart.
Or, you don't think weather works in a cycle do you?
That would be crazy.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:48:07 PM
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My point is that if flooding is the concern, you would never raise the level to full pool...you would always leave a reservoir to accomodate the 100 year flood event, regardless of time of year.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/29/2009 9:55:37 PM
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I'm pretty sure this is why you are not an Engineer for Alabama Power.
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 6:19:24 AM
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The lake was built to generate power you Genius...NOT flood control. We are not in a rainforest. Over the years, the value of Recreation to the area has become much more important to the locals. Filling early allows for higher levels going into the usually "relatively" dry months of summer. If you do not "get" this you are hopeless...
Flood Control...whatever...of course in every rare cases, if the lake is not full, it can help in this way but that is NOT why they built the lake and is NOT its primary function...
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 6:23:13 AM
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None of Alabama is in drought conditions any longer. We were removed several weeks ago.
Au67, you are wrong about flood control. It is the main consideration for the rule curve.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 9:50:33 AM
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Bob, do you think they lower and raise the lake 10 feet every year so you can work on your dock.
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 10:08:38 AM
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do you think they built the lake to lower and raise it 10 ft as the primary purpose?
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 10:23:59 AM
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If we're getting technical, they didn't build the lake, they built the dam.
A dam is a barrier that impounds water or underground streams. Dams generally serve the primary purpose of retaining water, while other structures such as floodgates, levees, and dikes are used to manage or prevent water flow into specific land regions.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 12:30:39 PM
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I think that some of the people in this thread use the phrase "flood control" when they really mean "downstream navigation."
"Downstream navigation" means making sure that there is enough water in the Alabama River for it to be navigable; this means that often water is released from the lake in the driest of times. Yes, this can result in low water levels in summer. And yes, that can harm the local economy. That is considered a small price to pay to stave off the harm that would be done if barges could not get any further inland than, say, Mobile.
A low lake level can hurt LOCAL commerce; a low river can adversely affect STATE commerce. In the big picture, it should be easy to see which is more important. Yes, that is no comfort to the local businesses that are hurt by low water, but that's the risk you take when you voluntarily stake your livelihood on something that is regularly affected by factors that you cannot control.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 12:37:25 PM
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Well said mythbuster.
On a side note: Bob, I noticed your member popularity was a negative 14. You may want to work on your people skills.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Actually it was 50 feet
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Date:
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1/30/2009 12:52:43 PM
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The dam is engineered and buit to accomadate a 50ft draw down each year. So whine about 10ft a little more. I am sure there are some new members who have not witnessed the extent of your aingst over the water going down every year. Guess what boob? It will go down again NEXT year too. And the year after. And they year after that. See a pattern here boob?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
are we going to plug early?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 12:56:10 PM
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"I think that some of the people in this thread use the phrase "flood control" when they really mean "downstream navigation.""
Flood control is accurate also. If the rains were not controlled then Tallassee would get washed away in many years. But you are absolutely correct about navigation also.
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| Name: |
Nutin Bitein
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| Subject: |
Do we need another lock&dam?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 1:18:15 PM
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If what Myth is saying is true. Would another Lock and Dam closer to Mobile be helpful for future droughts?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Do we need another lock&dam?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 1:36:30 PM
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There is no need for a lock above Montgomery because there is no longer barge traffic above there. A new dam is already permitted on the Tallapoosa. It will be very close close to Horseshoe Bend. It was permitted at the same time as Harris but it took the 07 drought to really set the process in motion. Still no telling how long it will take.
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| Name: |
Nutin Bitein
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| Subject: |
Do we need another lock&dam?
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Date:
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1/30/2009 1:48:25 PM
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I was thinking down south closer to Mobile.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
That's why I said "some"
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Date:
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1/30/2009 2:25:50 PM
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That's why I said "some people" instead of "everyone."
I thought about mentioning the flood control aspect, and was even going to use Tallassee as an example. But then I thought about how much I didn't want to read the subsequent posts about how unimportant the very existence of Tallassee was compared to the guy who has a business on the lake. A very sad and disturbing mindset is starting to have a louder voice.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
Bob's quote from 8/25/08
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Date:
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1/30/2009 3:13:18 PM
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"You are kidding right? If they released water they would be flooding downstream and making the flooding potential worse. That is the only reason they are holding the water. Big shock that a trpoical system is filling the lake."
He sure did think the dam/lake had a lot to do with flooding back then! HAHA
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| Name: |
Bob
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| Subject: |
Bob's quote from 8/25/08
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Date:
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1/30/2009 6:08:19 PM
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D-dumb,
Nice to see I got under your skin so much that you re-read my posts :) That is pathetic Bro. I mean I am laughing out loud here that you would do that...
Get a life Bro...you do realize that all tropical storms happen when we have much more water than the "low pool" in winter. If it was about flood control they would just keep the SOB d@mn near empty and then thay would have lots of room for the torrential rains that would need your "flood control"...I bet you and your idiot friends would be happier like that...since you are re-reading my posts...just insert your name for LTL in the posts and I will save time...there are some classics out there...
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Bob's quote from 8/25/08
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Date:
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1/30/2009 7:02:40 PM
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Sure can tell folks are getting cabin fever. Happens here same time every year. At this moment, I kind of appreciate Bob, with his abrasive nature, and pi$$y responses, as I am kind of weary of the forum lovefest we've had for the last 6 months or so.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
You ain't no lone stranger
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Date:
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1/30/2009 8:26:05 PM
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in that regard.
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
Bob's quote from 8/25/08
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Date:
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1/30/2009 9:09:54 PM
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Bob, just to let you know, it is not cool to call people Bro anymore. Oh wait, it was NEVER cool to call anyone Bro.
It took me all of about 10 seconds to read your last few post. I had a feeling a total douche like yourself would completely contradict himself, and guess what. I was right.
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