| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
News Articles--HELP!!
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Date:
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9/20/2007 2:46:00 PM
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I want to call everyone's attention to the two news articles posted by LTL, today. Please read those articles because they're talking about LAKE MARTIN supplying the water to float the dredge to make a channel for two or three companies to use the lower Alabama River.
Go to the www.lakemartin.org website and read the most recent letters we sent out. I sent a letter to COL Jorns and one to the governor requesting that they not drain our lake just to float a dredge. The 'barge lobbyists' could only name a paper mill that barges diesel fuel, a sand and gravel operation that ships their product by barge, and a new, not open yet small wood pellet plant that will ship pellets by barge. For these small users we must give up what remains of our lake.
WE NEED YOUR HELP AGAIN.
Write to COL Jorn and the Governor and let them know what you think of allowing small special interests groups being allowed to drain both the Coosa and Tallapoosa basins. We will lose water that we may not gain back from rains this winter. Their addresses can be found on the letters.
Hopefully, Maverick can post their addresses here along with email addresses.
BELIEVE ME, YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:04:31 PM
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You having water to play on is more important than these 'few small special interests' being able to continue to do business? It must be nice to live in your world, where you are king. How many jobs do you think these 'few small special interests' represent? How much taxes do these 'few small special interests' pay? How many families may loose their homes if they loose their jobs so you can have water to PLAY on? As for the 'not yet opened' wood pellet plant.... this industry was heavily recruited by Alabama and given incentives to locate here as opposed to elsewhere. What do you think it would do to future negotiations with industry if the water was held back because of a 'few narcissistic lake home owners'. How many millions of dollars do you think the owners of the 'not yet opened' plant have invested?
It has been apparent since you showed up here that you are full of yourself, but this takes the cake. If this is what the HOBO is going to do I for one will work against you and it. OUR RECREATION IS TOTALLY INSIGNIFACANT COMPARED TO THOSE PEOPLES LIVES. Please go back wherever you came from.
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| Name: |
PC Al
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:22:44 PM
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If these projects are so important, and I am sure they are, why not take Lay and Mitchell down for the short period to finish the dredging? They don't seem to have much of a problem bringing them back up during a drought. Everyone seems to agree the Coosa watershed is much larger than the Tallapoosa.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL raised points..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:24:20 PM
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that I will answer. The pellet plant has a tptal investment of $9.3 million according to news articles, a very small investment by industrial standards. The dredging can be completed when the rains come--the dredging has been delayed for two years already by the Corps of Engineers and shippers are already using truck and rail.
What about jobs lost around the lake. The drought and having the lakes lower has affected many jobs here since April. The marinas, the boat dealers, and all retail stores have been suffering all summer. The River south of Montgomery has not been affected by the drought (warnings, yes, but no effect) If you don't think jobs have been lost here and taxes are down ride around and take a look. Home construction jobs have been shut down, marinas have been forced to shut down operations, boat dealers have huge inventories, and things will get worse before they get better. We can make a difference.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:34:11 PM
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I am not sure, but I think Lake Logan Martin is pretty much unuseable right now. Does anyone know for sure?
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
PC AL
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:37:39 PM
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Those two lakes are very small and very shallow, and they're fed by the lakes from Georgia -- Allatoona and Carters--the Corps is cutting back their flows to conserve.
To better understand the situation let me explain that the dredge is located downstream from the last dam on the Alabama River, the Claiborne Dam. To float the dredge the Corps releases water from the dam which flows down, temporarily raises the river,floats the dredge then flows into the Gulf of Mexico via the Mobile River and Mobile Bay. Problem is when that water is released from Claiborne Dam it's gone--Alabama has lost it forever.
They can easily wait until rains come to naturally float the barge. The Corps has released a study that shows that the flow rate into the Alabama River can be reduced by over 20% with no damage to anyone.
They won't reduce the flow because of the dredging--jobs lost none.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
LTL raised valid points..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:38:07 PM
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Yes I know some local businesses have suffered. These are my friends and neighbors, of course I know what the drought has done. But the damage has already been done here. Things are normal now for this time of year. Why should we expect others to suffer, just because we have. I am not aware of any marinas shutting down as you suggest. All the ones I visited this summer were up and running. Selling less, but open. Now I am sure that 9.3 million is chump change to you, but to those that spent it and those that are depending on it going into full operations may see it differently. The largest boat dealer on the lake is claiming it's second best year EVER. Doesn't sound like they are hurting. The water resources below the dam have always had a different purpose and therefore different level requirements. Remember that water is ours too. Don't be angry about it being there. Get in your car and go enjoy it. That is what they do to come here when we have water. Just yesterday mav was asking CAT about the river levels. I seem to remember they were 1.5 - 2.0 ft BELOW normal. If the dredging can be put off 'till the rains come', at a cost of millions of dollars lost, then surely the refilling of Lake Martin can be put off 'till the rains come' at a cost of zero dollars. But osms wanting water at his Pier, now that is priceless!!!!
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
take a blue pill and wax it
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:40:34 PM
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then maybe you won't waste everyones time with you longwinded bs
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:41:23 PM
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They are below winter level also, and a MUCH smaller and shallower lake. Only fools and fishermen are using it now, from what I hear.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL.....
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:46:46 PM
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if we continue to not look out for the interest of Lake Martin lovers we will be in big trouble. If we lose 5 - 10 more feet of lake level, when will we get it back. If we don't look out for ourselves, who will look out for us. This issue is worth fighting, because we're fighting for next year.
Remember:
IF WE ALWAYS DO WHAT WE'VE ALWAYS DONE, WE'LL ALWAYS GET WHAT WE'VE ALWAYS GOTTEN.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
From lakemartin.org
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:47:28 PM
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This was published in Lake Magazine but I cut and pasted it from LakeMartin.org. Pay special attention to the first and last paragraph. This is not the article in it's entirety.
********************************************************************************
Though the 40,000-acre Lake Martin is an enormous economical draw for its surrounding communities, first and foremost it is a hydroelectric project that provides commercial electricity and flood protection for other areas in the state of Alabama.
Watch groups such as Lake Watch of Lake Martin and CALM have already had independent meetings previously with Alabama Power, and are making sure their concerns are heard from the beginning of the relicensing process.
“We’ve already voiced concerns on major issues regarding lake levels, water quality issues and the development aspect of shoreline management,” said Dick Bronson, president of Lake Watch on Lake Martin. “I think the people that really care about Lake Martin will really take the time to get involved in the process.”
Bronson said Lake Watch’s philosophy is to take a proactive approach to protecting and enhancing the water quality of Lake Martin. It is an all-volunteer, non-profit organization that conducts scientific studies in water quality monitoring, increases public awareness of water quality issues, as well as implements educational activities in the Lake Martin area.
Alabama Power recognized early on that certain agencies, groups and individuals would be participating heavily in the process, and met with them on a one-on-one basis.
“We meet with them individually because it helps to get them educated up front about the process,” Crew said. “It’s not like we work for five years getting stuff together and that’s it. As far as the process of relicensing itself, it’s FERC’s. We take the basic structure of their process and we add to it, and have an open-door relationship with our stakeholders.”
Probably the most hotly-discussed topic that has been brought to Alabama Power’s attention on more than one occasion over the last 15 years include winter pool levels on Lake Martin. Within the last couple of years, Alabama Power has received formal proposals from both CALM (Coalition of Associations at Lake Martin) and Russell Lands to look at the winter pool levels.
Crew said the possibility of keeping the water level in winter higher than it is now “appears to be feasible for consideration.” Under the current license, the water level is allowed to drop up to 10 feet below the full pool level of 491 msl (or 490 MD). The purpose of the winter draw down is to generate electricity, provide flood control for areas lower than the Martin reservoir, as well as make room for the spring rains.
Crew said Alabama Power intends to evaluate the effects the winter pool rise would have on the environmental, recreational, cultural and socioeconomic resources, as well as flood control and generation. For those hoping that will mean higher lake levels in the next couple of years, Crew said they shouldn’t hold their breath.
“Individuals want to know why we can’t just raise the level now. If the water level were to go up,” Crew said, “it wouldn’t go up until after a new license is reissued in June 2013.”
*******************************************************************************
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We have always DONE NOTHING and we have always GOTTEN WATER!
Once again I remind you that the lake was here long before you knew it existed. This is not the first, just the worst drought. Once again I will remind you it is engineered for a 50ft draw down. Any year with even close to 'normal' reainfall will fill it back up. Many of us have seen it. Climb down off your soapbox for a while and talk to folks, you might learn something.
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| Name: |
magator2
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 3:53:52 PM
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I was on Logan Martin this past Saturday for the Leukemia Regatta. It was beautiful. The ramps were in good shape and the docks were all good. There were sailboat races all day and no one hit bottom. I was on Martin on Sunday : ( We are calling it Puddle Martin. My boys pretended to fish. We still have some water but we aren’t taking the boat out again this season. We went out two Sunday’s ago and near the main channel just south of Chimney Rock the depth finder said 100, 40, 0. We weren’t going fast, which is all that saved us from major damage.
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From your post:
"They can easily wait until rains come to naturally float the barge."
You can easily wait until the rains come to natuatlly float your boat!!! Literally and metaphorically.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL, thanks for posting..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 4:30:27 PM
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this article. The decision to found the Lake Martin HOBOs was made at this meeting. For those who want to learn, Jim Crew's proclamations at this meeting in May proved that the Residents, Boat Owners, Fishermen, and other users of Lake Martin needed and desired to have their interests represented by an organization that could speak on their behalf and work with the governments, Alabama Power, and other agencies to ensure that Lake Martin would be preserved and protected.
Mr. Crew's job with Alabama Power is to renew the license for Lake Martin, not to look after the interests of its stakeholders. The Lake Martin HOBOs job is to represent the interests of the stakeholders (all users) of Lake Martin--and we will do just that.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
LTL
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Date:
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9/20/2007 4:48:01 PM
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somehow you have to put everything as if I'm doing this just for me. For your information, I have 10 feet of water at my dock. But I have many friends and neighbors that are high and dry. With planning the lake can be better managed.
The COE was supposed to dredge the Alabama River two years ago, but didn't. All parties that will enjoy the dredged river have been using alternative transportation modes for 5 months without going out of business. Waiting a couple of more months won't affect them--it's a political move by lobbyists. They can wait as long as it takes--they've already proven that.
BTW, you have referred to me as a newcomer in several derogatory ways. For your future information, I have used Lake Martin since 1976, and owned property here in 1977.
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At what cost are they using alternative transportation? If they can wait for 'a couple of months' to dredge, we can wait a couple of months to launch our PLEASURE craft.
As for the 'political move by lobbyist', I detect a note of envy. Just what is it you are trying to accomplish other than becoming a 'lobbyist', only with a much less deserving 'special interest'. Try getting off the lake and see if you find a lot of sympathy for us home owners. I can assure you it ain't there.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Is there something wrong..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 5:10:39 PM
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with lobbying in the best interest of 55,000 citizens negatively affected by improper distribution of water resources?
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When the interest of those '55,000' is counter productive the the hundreds of thousands downstream.
"improper distribution of water resources?"
Sorry but you don't get to decide what proper distribution of water resources are. The governments of the several states and federal agencies have highly trained professionals to handle that job. You are just a whiny, self absorbed individual that desires to be more important than he will ever be.
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| Name: |
Council Roc Doc
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| Subject: |
How narcissistic are you?
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Date:
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9/20/2007 5:30:15 PM
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LTL, I suggest that you carefully read the articles coming out of Marietta and Cobb County. Your comments directed at the HOBO's could just as easily be directed to the Cobb County-Marietta Water Authority, who have been, heaven forbid, complaining about spending money to treat drinking water because of taste complaints. We have Alabama industry requesting minimal downstream water levels just to survive that my state wishes to withhold further because of the risk of Lake Allatoona "turning into a puddle" and taste concerns! It would seem that there is plenty of greed and selfishness to go around.
I'm just incensed that the COE, who know full well the unpredictability of weather patterns, the limitations of water storage facilities and required flow rates to sustain equal opportunity for growth in both states, had limited say in Atlanta's explosive growth. For the sake of Atlanta's development, I'm afraid Alabama became the sacrificial lamb.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
CR Doc
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Date:
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9/20/2007 5:43:34 PM
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Thanks for your post. We are caught in the middle of two Corps of Engineer offices with opposing policies. The Georgia COE says they have to stop sending down more water while the Mobile COE says send more water. This dredge floating issue didn't just start; it was at the core of the issue when the Governor wrote the letter the third week of July to the Sec of Army complaining about the Georgia COE not releasing enough water. The dredge had 70 miles of river to dredge, the COE drained Allatoona and Carters to dredge 35 miles and now they have 35 miles to go and only Martin to use to float the dredge.
It's time to do something. All the news articles have been press conferences and press releases by the lobbyists for the paper industry (diesel fuel) and the Coosa/Alabama Water Alliance (Barge Lobby). If the people of Lake Martin don't stand up, guess what's going to happen.
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Why did the COE wait until now to dredge and not two years ago the winter after Katrina hit?
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Leave your hyperbole for the press releases and letters to official. It don't wash here. NO lake has been 'drained'. All of the reservoir lakes have been lowered by using the water for what it is stored for!! Just such uses as this is why reservoir lakes are built. But osms doesn't seem to understand that.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
On the money as usual Doc.
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Date:
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9/20/2007 6:04:21 PM
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Atlanta is a thirsty city. Even without downstream flow concerns ATL, and north Georgia, do not have enough water to continue the growth of the past 30 years, with no end in sight for the next 30. Especially since rather than treat the sewage and return the water for potable uses, they just dump it raw into the Hooch. I think the only real solution for ATL is to build a pipeline to the coast and build a desalination plant.
What scares me is what my Dad used to say..... "it's their water before it's our water".
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
CR Doc
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Date:
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9/20/2007 6:14:51 PM
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Story varies depending on who you talk to. I've heard Congree failed to appropriate. Heard Corps didn't budget because river usage is so low it didn't qualify for funding--that is most reliable source and most reasonable answer.
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| Name: |
RatherBeSkiing
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| Subject: |
Logan Martin
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Date:
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9/20/2007 6:32:26 PM
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is far from unusable. I spent the day on the lake Sunday. The only problem I had was finding calm water to ski on. I keep my boat at Rivers Edge and our house is near Stemley. You just need to know where the channel is. Right now the lake level is 460 and I've skied in January when the level was between 458 and 459.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
LTL, thanks for posting..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 6:45:39 PM
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"Though the 40,000-acre Lake Martin is an enormous economical draw for its surrounding communities, first and foremost it is a hydroelectric project that provides commercial electricity and flood protection for other areas in the state of Alabama"
Recreation is NOT mentioned and certainly raising property values has NO bearing
********************************************************************************
"Crew said Alabama Power intends to evaluate the effects the winter pool rise would have on the environmental, recreational, cultural and socioeconomic resources, as well as flood control and generation. For those hoping that will mean higher lake levels in the next couple of years, Crew said they shouldn’t hold their breath.
“Individuals want to know why we can’t just raise the level now. If the water level were to go up,” Crew said, “it wouldn’t go up until after a new license is reissued in June 2013.”"
Some still seem to think that it will happen this year. NOT!! Now if 485 is already on the radar, does that not make your efforts redundant. I realize that you REALLY want to be able to take credit for it, but it has been talked about for years. Your efforts will have NO effect on the decisions made. The decision will be made upon the recommendations of the PROFESSIONALS who are put in charge of engineering the impact.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Just goes to show
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Date:
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9/20/2007 6:56:56 PM
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Usable is a relative term!! I found the lake very usable this summer while others were scared to go out. The abundance of beaches was a welcome change. No crowds, no really rough water, lots less idiots. It was a GREAT summer.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
HEY LTL..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 7:35:09 PM
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You calling me an idiot? I only made it to lake one time.
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... the CATS claw fits......LMAO
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 8:12:29 PM
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 8:19:25 PM
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And I am SURE you will take credit for it if / when it does happen. But for the record, I signed my first petition on the matter in 1982.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/20/2007 10:04:56 PM
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Al Gore signed it in 1979............. :- }
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 1:09:37 AM
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I wasn't tooting my own horn, just making a point that the 'movement' has been around that long.
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 9:06:46 AM
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...and then there were FOUR!!
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| Name: |
8hcap
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 9:30:34 AM
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It is hard to discern that you are a supporter of the decreased drawdown as you say you are. If you do support it, get on board instead of having these pi$$ant tirades. I believe the drawdowns of Logan Martin and Weiss were cut in half prior to re-licensing. What is wrong with promoting ones self interest? That is certainly what everyone else is doing.
8
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 11:20:51 AM
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Why would you think I am not on board? Just because I disagree with putting our immediate self interest above the interest of others downstream. It is our pleasure, it is their livelihood. To me that is a no brainer. Once again I reiterate, I am in favor of 485 winter pool, but at the same time realize that my desires will have NO bearing on the decision. The engineering will be the determining factor. I believe it is possible, but I am NOT a hydrologist and don't have the data or training to make the call. Nor do any of you. But I can assure you that APCO and SOCO do.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 11:30:13 AM
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Thinking of other people? Concern for the greater good? Unselfishness? If you want to be in the minority on Lake Martin, you're heading in the right direction.
Of course, some of us remember when these traits were the norm; there's a reason those times are called the GOOD old days.
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
Time will tell..
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Date:
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9/21/2007 1:05:56 PM
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..referring, of course, to rude evin's post........the ever sharp-witted rude evin!
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