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Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 7:10:30 AM

I just heard that the auto destruction rate (old cars and trucks or those in an accident that are not repaired) is running at a 12.5 million annual rate, while new car production is only at a 9.5 million rate.

But the "sad" thing is an Obama person was on CNBC and said she was not sure that would boost car sales and that maybe americans have to start thinking about fewer cars per family. rather than 2 or 3 cars in a household we go back to the days of 1 car and people need to take more mass transit.

This is sick ... Obama wants to push the US back to 50's or other poor nations. Maybe that is his answer to a greener economy, just make us so poor that people are forced to walk or ride mass transit.

Obama's "HOPE" message is turning in to Obama's "FEAR" message to socialize this country.

I know I am scared.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 8:40:08 AM

Having come from Washington, I'm used to the big push about using mass transit. I'm sure you must hear the same in Atlanta whose traffic I think rivals Washington. It's an "easier" solution than trying to build new road that are already overcrowded by the time they are built. The "green" people love it, and it wouldn't surprise me to find out that that the person you heard talking was one of the twenty-somethings that think mass transit is the answer.

I have a kind of odd theory about the US car companies. They need to start building cars that look like something other than the Japanese. They won't compete with the Japanese for the good gas mileage beige boxes. So they need to make American cars look distinctive. They need to build some excitement about American cars. And keep the price competitive and the gas mileage realistic.

I don't think you have to worry about people in this country going back to one car. It won't work. Even though DH and I could likely go down to one car at this point in our life, there is no way that is going to happen.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 9:41:33 AM

You are right about Atlanta traffic. I have a 20 mile commute and this morning it took just about an hour on I85 that is 6 lanes and then goes to 10 lanes when it turns in to 75/85 connector. There has always been a push in Atlanta, but right or wrong Atlanta is a large white collar city and the view is that mass transit is for blue collar. Now I come from NY where mass transit was common and most business people took the train.

As for US cars ... I tend to agree. I do not think it is so much that US is building to look like cars from Japan, but over time everyone copies what is working and you start to get a blending of styles and they all start looking the same.

While I don't agree with the bail out of US car makes without union concessions, I will say that GM's new electric vehicle looks great and everything I read the performance is fantastic. If the survive to have it hit the market, I do believe that will be a huge success.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	Mildly Disagree
Date:	2/17/2009 10:09:11 AM

Up until 2005, I had never owned a "foreign" car. I now own 3; 2 Hondas and a KIA. I have no problem with the "style" or comfort of American cars. It's the "planned obsolescence," (sp?) I have a problem with. I could never get an American car past 160,000 miles. I am meticulous about keeping them serviced however, around 140,000 miles, the engines start burning oil, transmissions fall out and all the little knobs, electric motors, etc., start falling apart. My Suburban is an exception. My 2 Hondas both have over 100,000 miles and I have done absolutely nothing but regular maintenance. My KIA is relatively new but, it is a fully loaded "cut-off" SUV for under $19,000 with a 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty. It is my firm belief that Unions have absolutely destroyed the US auto industry.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Mildly Disagree
Date:	2/17/2009 10:20:16 AM

May be right, who knows. I do have a 1996 dodge pick-up I leave at the lake that has 220,000 miles on it. I bought it strickly to pull my boat in and out of the water and it is fun to drive when we are at the lake. The thing still runs great, although it is starting to leak transmission fluid. But it starts right up every time, the engine is stong and the body is in great shape. I have no complaints.

Name:	Jim Dandy -	Reply
Subject:	Mildly Disagree
Date:	2/17/2009 10:55:16 AM

Must put your boat in and out a lot if you got 220K miles on it!!

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	Mildly Disagree
Date:	2/17/2009 11:02:30 AM

Most of it was probably in 2007, and he must have a very long ramp.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 1:18:26 PM

I agree with you about the unions. Heard the other day that the UAW was hanging tough with GM. So much better to keep your benefits intact with no job than to lose a few benefits and have a job. I don't know what planet the Union people live on.

You know, I am very optimistic about the US car makers. I think they have the ability to build cars that will last, will appeal to the markets and can look like something. I think there is a lot of potential in electric cars and hybrids. But they are going to have to do a good job in marketing them and educating the public.

And Lamont, don't get me wrong. I love my Honda. It's my 4th one and I keep them on an average of 8 years. My Accord has 92,000 miles on it and my only complaint with it is how dinged up it is from parking in parking garages.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	PS about the Commute
Date:	2/17/2009 1:21:10 PM

I so hear you. I lived 17 miles from my office, and it could take me anywhere from 30 minutes to 1 1/2 hours depending on traffic on I-95. Huge back ups were not uncommon -- didn't even have to be a blood and guts accident either. Someone just changing their tire on the side of the road could cause the traffic to almost come to a stop. I so understand road rage.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Mildly Disagree
Date:	2/17/2009 1:40:26 PM

oh real funny ... don't give up your day job ... i thought it was pretty clear i bought it used.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	PS about the Commute
Date:	2/17/2009 1:42:15 PM

yes ... everyone needs to look what is going on .... rubber neckers.

Name:	bluekatz -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 1:42:39 PM

It's a global economy - my Tundra is made in Texas.
Unions are heroes of the past - they are the reason we dont work 80 hours a week with no overtime - the reason our kids dont go to work in the mines to help pay the company store grocery bill... they just got outflanked by the new economy who trades jobs for lower prices and outsources work to people who dont have to pay for healthcare. I for one wouldnt mind paying a few more bucks for a blender if I new it helped support an American worker - but Wal Mart doesnt see it that way... and besides nobody in America makes blenders - we only buy them... I just wish Toyota or Nissan or whoever would buy GM / FORD / Crysler with their pocket change and start designing and producing cars that people would buy. That's the only way those union guys in Detroit will ever get back to work. I dont mean to make anybody mad... just my opinion.

Kevin

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	Here's the problem...
Date:	2/17/2009 2:25:57 PM

I wholeheartily agree there was a place for the unions 50 years ago however, when US car manufacturers are paying $72 an hour plus benefits and the new KIA plant is paying $32, something is out of whack. $32 an hour for an assembly line worker seems more than adequate to me. In additin, I have a friend who worked on the GM assembly line for 35 years and he used to brag about working only 20 hours of a 40 hour work week and spent the rest of the time playing cards in the break room. He is now retired and living quite nicely on ss and his GM pension. Good for the unions, not so good for a competetive product.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 2:28:55 PM

I know when the economy is bad people starting thinking more like protectionist and only buy american to save ameriacn jobs. But the reality is we do have a global economy. As you said yourself tour Tundra was made in Texas. And many things made overseas use US parts ... like computers, while most are made in China and Japan, they use Intel chips and TI chips made in the US. Different markets are more efficient than other markets for making certain products. Yes, some of it is labor costs, but some of it is climate related, certain technology and education/training.

The fact is that the US consumes way more than they can produce and that is why we have a trade deficit. Our economy is still larger than any other, so we are net consumers. Trying to produce everything in the US would be impossible and lead to wage and price inflation.

You also have to remember the federal deficit we are running and the $800 new spending Obama just signed ... where do you think that money comes from? It is other nations like China that loan us the money by buying US Treasuries. If we decide to cut off China from exporting ... do you think they would keep loaning us money? If they stopped, the US dollar basically becomes worthless since what is backing it up?

I realize these are big finance and economic issues, but the reality is not as simple as saying buy american and stop importing good from foriegn countries.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Glimmer of Hope for Autos
Date:	2/17/2009 2:54:42 PM

You make a good point. I was watching 60 Minutes the other night. One of the stories was about the steel industry getting a "buy American" clause put into the stimulus bill. The steel manufacturer obviously thought it was a great thing. Not so the Catapillar CEO. He was afraid that the "buy American" clause would be seen as protectionist and would hurt his business overseas.

The Unions served an excellent purpose before there were laws to protect workers. But, it doesn't make sense to me to protect the workers at the expense of the industry. And the Japanese companies, in particular, have demonstrated that you can run a manufacturing industry without the labor unions.

In another life, I used to work with US Defense industry on international competitions. One of their goals was to get the US government to lobby the acquiring government for the "US" product. But that gets sticky when some of the other competitors are actually joint ventures between a US company and a foreign company, or when the foreign product has high US content.
Hardly anything in Defense is purely a US product anymore. And I suspect that other industries are the same.

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