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| Name: |
noagenda
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| Subject: |
Enforcement is not the answer
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Date:
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3/15/2006 6:41:50 PM
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I have read several threads on the boating size debate. I agree that the operator has the ability to eliminate the frustration through responsible driving. The problem is that responsible drivers are becoming the exception as opposed to the rule. Enforcing the responsible behavior is in itself problematic. We have immigration laws, so what, we cannot enforce them at the border. Ideally, you would like to say that 18 year olds should be able to drink legally. They can go off to war. But the reality is that most 18-20 year olds were irrresponsible, so they raised the age to 21. The same principal may end up applying to large vessel operators. The negative impact on the general population can be disproportionately negative. Even responsible drivers create negative residuals to the masses because of the sheer size of the vessel. Houseboats I can see, but these large cigarette boats and cruisers were built for the ocean. People expect waves there. The lake is supposed to be a peaceful and serene enviroment not a motocross track and a wave pool for those who enjoy steriods. Join the pontoon crowd and take a chill. Speed Kills.
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| Name: |
wedoseadoo
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| Subject: |
Enforcement is not the answer
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Date:
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3/15/2006 7:04:06 PM
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I agree that enforcement is not the answer.Do we really want more enforcement on Lake Martin,I know I don't. At any given time there are plenty of marine patrol officers all over the lake as it is.The answer here is simple,it's called selfcontrol,a little thing that a few of us seem to not have or at the very least not use very well.As for the speed issue it isn't speed per say that kills it's speed variance that is the real culptit. The problem is we dont have speed lanes on the lake or speed limits.
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| Name: |
BoatsRFun
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| Subject: |
Enforcement is not the answer
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Date:
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3/15/2006 8:45:47 PM
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That is crazy, you think waves (wakes) will stop because we dont have big boats on the lake, man i can make my 20 foot boat create a 4 foot wake, i would much rather see a hand full of BIG boats on the lake rather than 25 boats with operators that dont know the "the rules of the road" any day, as for your comparision to other laws, well that just dont hold water, if you guys get your way and this law passes we will get all kinds of attention from all over and then what will you have, take a guess, d@mn im pissed
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| Name: |
noagenda
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/15/2006 10:27:50 PM
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Big boat owners are just as guilty of not abiding by the "rules of the roads" as the general population. The difference being when big boaters misbahave the effect is proportionate to the boat size. Yes, your 20 footer can throw out a big wake if you want to be a putz. But if you are in your big boat and want to be a putz, you can throw out something bigger. Either way, enforcement does not have the capability to reel in either group. The purpose on size limitation is purely a by product of trying to limit the larger liabilities. If you want to be pi$$ed. Point to the large boat owners who disrespect the lake and its neighbors instead of prosecuting the ones who get caught up in the negative residuals of their behavior.
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/16/2006 12:07:46 AM
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You seem to get it, noagenda. When a PWC is operated irresponsibly near your pier it's aggravating; when a runabout is operated irresponsibly near your pier it's even worse. And when one of the "big boys" is operated irresponsibly in front of your pier, there is often damage to your floating dock, your boat, your shoreline...
Oh wait, what am I saying? Most of the big boats on the lake never leave the wet slip, and the few that do never operate above idle speed. No "big boat" operator would EVER do anything wrong.
At least, that's the line that's being fed to the rest of us as if we were totally ignorant of what's going on around us at any given moment. Do they know how insulting it is that they expect us to believe it?
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/16/2006 9:37:13 AM
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And Longtimer, it is insulting to me that you keep putting all "big boat owners" in the same category. So we are all bad, Right? That is what I keep hearing and apparently there is not a responsible one in the whole group... correct me if I am wrong. You have no clue who I am, and yet you sit here and talk about how irresponsible "big boat owners" are. Please refrain from bunching us all together, that is prejudice. Just like there are irresponsible people, no matter what size the boats are (PWC, bass boats, pontoons, ski boats), this has nothing to do with size.
I also think you missed the point on the whole, we don't leave the dock statement that was posted earlier. I think it was AnchorBayDon that had stated that and it is true, believe it or not. Go out to AnchorBay on any given day and count the percentage of boats that are still in the doc. My family has been there every weekend for the past three months and yet the boat has left the slip twice for a max of about 1 hour. During this time we have also only seen two other boats out of there slips and both for short periods of time as well. When we take these trips to the lake on the weekend, it is not necessarily to take the boat out but just to relax on it, get the kids out of the house and enjoy just being at the lake.
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| Name: |
WSMS
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/16/2006 11:39:34 AM
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I won't speak for longtimer, but I see his generalizations as sarcastic comebacks to the generalizations that have been made the other way. If you don't want generalizations, that's fine; don't call them evil when they go against you if those you defend are making them a standard practice.
Now, I have a question. You say "I also think you missed the point on the whole, we don't leave the dock statement that was posted earlier. I think it was AnchorBayDon that had stated that and it is true, believe it or not. Go out to AnchorBay on any given day and count the percentage of boats that are still in the doc. My family has been there every weekend for the past three months and yet the boat has left the slip twice for a max of about 1 hour. During this time we have also only seen two other boats out of there slips and both for short periods of time as well. When we take these trips to the lake on the weekend, it is not necessarily to take the boat out but just to relax on it, get the kids out of the house and enjoy just being at the lake."
So the question is: are you, as someone who admittedly hardly ever leaves the slip, in a position to make a comment on what kinds of boats are out and about on the other 43,999 acres of the lake? Do you think that maybe, just maybe, people who admittedly use their boats more often than you might have a better idea about the other boats on the lake?
Another question: Are you really trying to use to use the boat traffic in January, February and March (the "last three months") as an indicator of boat traffic in June, July and August? Do you REALLY think that the months are similar?
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/16/2006 12:56:28 PM
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No, I am not trying to use the last three months as a comparison. I will say this. Before the purchase of our current boat. We have had two others that we used quite frequently on Lake Martin. The first a pontoon and the last a ski boat. Now with that being said, We used both of our previous boats every chance we could put them in the water. Not the same with the current one. We are comfortable at the doc enjoying the lake from our slip, where before we trailered the previous two and did not have a place on the lake to place them on, and it made no sense to since it fit on a trailer. I am not a new comer to the lake I have been enjoying it for years and base my analysis on the boat traffic that I have seen over this time frame, not the last three months. The only reason I even mentioned the last three months is because it is stuck in my head. True, I am sure that as the weather warms we will see more and more traffic. Do I feel that we will venture out more, maybe for short trips. The basic jist behind my entry earlier was that I was asking not to be included as a whole. That was the point behind me saying that it sounds like the writer was being prejudice against all big boat owners. The point is that we ALL love boating on LM, and I have lots of great memories of my time on the lake and I hope to have the opportunity to make many more with my family. I truly hate how this bill has divided so many when in fact we all share the same love and admiration for the lake. I will agree that there are individuals that frequent the lake that are not responsible, do I feel that it is just a certain kind of boat owner, no not really. Heck, I will even go as far as agree with the above post that bigger boats could possibly cause more damage to a dock (law of physics), however, that doesn't mean that certain boat owners are less or more responsible than others. It comes down to the individual.
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| Name: |
roswellric
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| Subject: |
Slight change of subject
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Date:
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3/16/2006 3:35:27 PM
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Do your dockmates do parties/ cookouts at the dock and/ or take the boats out and raft up together...not necessarily at the rock.....?
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| Name: |
longtimer
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/16/2006 7:01:41 PM
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I've been categorized myself during this debate: as a rich snob who is trying to keep the poor people off the lake, as an ignoramus who thinks the size of the boat relates to the size of the wake, and so on. And none of it is true. But that hasn't stopped anyone else; I'll be keeping tabs to see if you also berate YOUR side for generalizing.
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| Name: |
ALSCN
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| Subject: |
You are missing the point
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Date:
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3/17/2006 9:25:21 AM
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I know how you feel longtimer, trust me. I have seen every categorization of "big boat owners" which I guess is the category I fall in. We have been called irresponsible idiots that don't know how to drive our boats or care about others. I will admit, I think all of this has gotten out of hand and I will go as far as apologizing for simi lashing out yesterday (bad day at work, and the stress of life in general) but I do apologize. I hope that there can be a resolution that keeps the majority happy. I also pray that this is not the start of limiting a lot of the happiness that most find with the lake, for example, this limitation leading to others. I do know that I love the lake, I love every minute I get to spend on it. I understand that certain restrictions must be put in place before we see the lake with obsessive yachts on it, and I do feel that there are a lot of individuals who consistently display carelessness on the lake. I do not like to be categorized with these individuals just because I own a larger boat. (Which to me is small compared to a lot on the lake, but effected by this bill never the less.) I just pray that we can all find a way to consider each others views, what everyone has to loose from this and find a way to take all of this into consideration with our feelings. I know personally my feelings have been on edge because the ending result is out of my control and it has the potential of really hurting my family and our recreational habits. I hope that you have a wonderful day and maybe someday there will be an end to this madness that hopefully will please both our sides.
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