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| Name: |
GhostFleet
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 1:29:49 AM
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This is a post on Scubaboard of a diver who visited Lake Martin. The north end of the old bridge is more than 50 feet deep and evidently law enforcement officers violated his dive flag with a spinning propellor and dragged him back to the boat ramp. Are there law enforcement officers on our lake that are uninformed enough to do such a thing???
Kowaliga Bridge: BEWARE So I got two tickets from Alabama's finest Law Enforcement for diving within 50 feet of the the boat ramp and diving with no flag yesterday after the Fish & Game officers pulled my flag up off the bottom and drove with it over to the public access boat ramp on the NWest end of Kowaliga Bridge. After swimming over to retrieve my flag I got two tickets and threatened to get a third one for entering the water on the "private beach" for law enforcement personnel only to the right of the boat ramp (well clear of the 50 foot exclusion zone).
SO I guess if you are diving anywhere in Lake Martin...Which I DO NOT Recommend anyone bother with after yesterday's interaction with two of the most ignorant and inconsiderate officers I have dealt with. The visibility was pretty bad, less than 10 feet for the majority of the dive, and the thermocline at 25 feet kept the 50-something degree water contained and murky as ever.
The part I do not understand is why they expected me to surface from 50 feet of water, when they grabbed my dive flag from their boat with an outboard motor running (even at idle this is dangerous); the officer's explanation was that they "were trying to get my attention so that I would surface and they could warn me about the heavy boat traffic this weekend."
I will NEVER waste my time & money diving in Lake Martin (especially since I am only 90 minutes from Panama City & Destin, FL, where boaters and especially Law Enforcement personnel understand diving and would not think of driving their boat up to a dive flag, and pull it to the boat ramp where they then ticket the diver for diving too close to the public access...ELMORE County Fish & Game might need some training on their dive/diver etiquette.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
NOT Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 6:27:21 AM
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post says Elmore County Fish and Game. ARe they the Marine Police?
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| Name: |
misnash
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 6:35:32 AM
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When my sister was killed on labor day 2010... that night there was only 2 marine police to cover lake martin. Its very bad. I believe they have this year hired 1 or 2 more. Still not enough. They need a maping system in place in case there isnt anyone driving the boat. Trust me when i say that is more common than you would think. Boaters need a ...ping...or a GPS system...on star kinda thing, that will give location on a grid map Not hard. The Military has alot of equipment like this.
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| Name: |
misnash
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| Subject: |
NOT Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 6:51:37 AM
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By the way if you dont know or cant tell whos who....why do you give advise and your 2 cents worth? I dont or never have lived in AL but I know who is who. REALY? I take no more thought of your reply"s since you dont know your on marine police or what body of government they are in. Its a shame.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
NOT Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 2:24:39 PM
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I think you don't know your anuice from your elbow.
You tell me who the Elmore County Fish and game officers are, I checked on the Department of Conservations "Marine Police " website and they make no mention of "Elmore County Fish and Game"
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| Name: |
wehapa
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 5:38:00 PM
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During the rapid rise of water this early March, my two sons ages 10 and 9 were in a two person sit in kayak. They were caught in a current and could get back to our side ok lake. They kept trying but became too tired based on strength and age. I called marine police and reach a man who informed me that a boat was not in the water and it would be two hours or so before one could reach us. Luckily I was able to reach JT at Real Island marina. He sent two young men over in a pontoon for a rescue and safe delivery back to our dock.
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| Name: |
GhostFleet
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/16/2012 11:54:05 PM
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Sorry that we're caught up in Who's Who. If they were law enforcement officers in a boat then the visitor from Florida saw them as police on the water or marine police. If it is better call the thread Law Enforcement Officers Violate Flag. However the purpose of the post was not to point fingers but to hopefully hear the other side. Causing the rapid ascent of a diver from the depth of the north side of the submerged bridge would place the diver in peril for a disabling injury or even death. I would like to know that the persons who are responsible for protecting the public safety are not ones who would act in such a reckless manner.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Did they remove the post?
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Date:
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6/17/2012 11:22:42 AM
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I can only find 3 posts from 2012, and that isn't among them.
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| Name: |
JJ
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| Subject: |
Did they remove the post?
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Date:
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6/17/2012 6:04:22 PM
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The post is located on scuba board.com . Here's the link http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/deep-dixie-divers/421571-kowaliga-bridge-beware.html
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Tried to find it on LM Scuba and couldn't
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Date:
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6/17/2012 9:21:42 PM
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Thanks
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| Name: |
jalcz
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| Subject: |
Tried to find it on LM Scuba and couldn't
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Date:
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6/18/2012 1:47:55 AM
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www.scubaboard.com is not the same thing as the Scuba Board on lake martin.com.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
MP violated the 100 foot rule to ticket me
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Date:
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6/18/2012 3:10:21 PM (updated 6/18/2012 3:19:30 PM)
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They wrote four of us up for diving more than 50 feet from our boat, which had a flag on it. They -followed our bubbles- banging on thier ladder trying to get us to surface. Followed us around for more than 30 minutes so that they could write the ticket. I was guilty as charged, paid the fine. Just pointing out that the MP involved was violating the 100 foot rule the entire time. By the way, although I was beyond the 50 foot rule, I was within 100 feet of my boat, and at 40 feet. I returned directtly to the point of origin without incident.
If you are curious enough, digest this. I can put a flag on my boat and be -legal-. All references on anchor rode suggest a 3 to 1 ratio. So, anchored at 60 feet my anchor will be +-180 feet from my flag. Anchored at 20 feet I would have 60 feet of rode. I would obviously follow my anchor line down to begin my dive. If I descended immediately below the boat, the wind could cause it to swing at least 50 feet from side to side. This would then put me into an illegal dive per the rule. So, I guess I should just drop multiple flags and create a grid so that I am covered? The reason I will not drag a flag anymore is two-fold. One reason is that I have had one snag on an object unseen somewhere above me (perhaps a tree limb?) and that flag has not been seen since. I have also heard stories about people grabbing the flags and driving off with them. I don't want a tug of war when my life is at stake.
So, I guess what I am saying is dive at your own risk, and to the risk of your pocket book because someone out there is ticket happy.
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| Name: |
Capt M Brooks
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/18/2012 9:04:25 PM (updated 6/18/2012 9:06:05 PM)
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We can't comment on a specific enforcement
action, but I can post the relevant laws so that the spread of misinformation
is limited. If you have questions about this, please feel free to E-mail me at matt.brooks@dcnr.alabama.gov.
Section 33-5-80
Exemption for law enforcement officers while performing
their duties.
Law
enforcement officers while performing their duties shall be exempt from this
article while enforcing the speeding and regulatory laws pursuant to this
article. No law enforcement officer shall be personally exempt from Section
32-5A-191.3.
220-2-.37
Restricted Use of Public Access Areas
(1)
Definition: Unless the context clearly indicates otherwise, in this regulation,
the term "public access area" shall include any state-owned, leased,
and/or operated boat launching and/or landing access area, parking lot, ramp,
pier, and any real or personal property within the boundaries of said areas.
(2)
Picnicking, except at tables provided, and camping are prohibited at all public
access areas. Swimming or any other activities, to the extent that swimming or
any other activity may interfere with the intended use of any public access
area by the public, are forbidden; provided, however, that in any event it
shall be unlawful to swim or wade within fifty (50) feet of any ramp at any
public access area.
(8)
It shall be unlawful to swim, dive, sun bathe, or jump from any pier or ramp
located at any public access area.
220-6-.19 Aids To Navigation And Regulatory Markers
(3)
The diver's flag shall not be less than 300 milliliters (12 inches) square,
colored red with a white two-inch strip running diagonally from the top staff
corner to the bottom fly corner and shall be prominently displayed and visible
from all directions and kept within a 15.2 meters (50 foot) radius of divers
when said divers are in the water.
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| Name: |
GhostFleet
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| Subject: |
Marine Police Violate Diver Down Flag ??
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Date:
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6/19/2012 7:41:17 AM
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My dive flag was stolen from directly above me on the south end of the old bridge, A boat stopped and when they started again my reel started to play out. I cut the line to prevent being dragged across the lake. At this point I was diving without a flag and about 300 yards from shore. I could have surfaced and swam to shore but scuba equipment was not designed to be streamlined on the surface. Or I could have continued my dive at 40 feet well below the reach of a motor and safely exit at my point of origin. The conduct of the boat operator could fall under"
Section 33-5-74 - Markers, signs, and buoys; mooring or fastening vessel
prohibited; damaging, altering, or moving prohibited; penalties.
(a) Except in case of emergency, no person shall moor or fasten a vessel to a
lawfully placed aid-to-navigation marker, sign, or buoy, regulatory marker,
sign, or buoy, or area boundary marker, sign, or buoy, placed or executed by any
governmental agency.
(b) No person shall willfully damage, alter, or move a lawfully placed
aid-to-navigation marker, sign, or buoy, regulatory marker, sign, or buoy, or
area boundary marker, sign, or buoy.
(c) Any person violating this section shall be guilty of a Class B
misdemeanor, punishable upon conviction as provided in Sections 13A-5-7 and
13A-5-12. Any person so convicted shall be fined not less than one hundred
dollars ($100).
(Acts 1994, No. 94-652, p. 1243, §28.)The person who stole my flag placed me in the position diving with no protective marker and the possibility of a ticket if LE had shown up and saw my bubbles.
Law enforcement officers are exempt ftom all but operating their vessel while intoxicated but is it ethically sound to remove a diver's safety net and reference marker just to get his attention? Causing the rapid or uncontrolled ascent of a person breathing compressed air can result in Decompression Sickness or worse Air Embolism. Both conditions require recompression in a facility willing to treat diving accidents. The nearest being Bessemer, Panama City, Pensacola, or Mobile.
I know there are two sides to the orignial story, however, I brought this up to raise awareness that tampering with a diver down flag can result in serious complications.
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| Name: |
Murph
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| Subject: |
Learning some things...
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Date:
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6/19/2012 10:24:24 AM
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O.k., I must admit I am learning some things from this post and there are probably others who feel the same way. I know I am supposed to stay away from dive flags, but never realized they were often tethered to the actual diver. I always assumed they were anchored to the bottom and the diver was just somewhere around them.
Maybe it wouldn't hurt for some of you Diver's to give us non-diving boaters some other safety tips that will help keep you safe and keep incidents like the beginning post from happening again...I don't mean give us a 37 page dive manual riddled with legal double speak, just the common sense stuff. And I know, the most important is stay the crap away from a dive flag.
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| Name: |
Crimson4Lif
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| Subject: |
I agree Murph....
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Date:
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6/22/2012 10:03:56 AM
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had no idea the diver was actually attached to the flag rope. Sounds odd. Maybe in murky water it is done so one can keep up with where they actually are? I have not seen a dive flag up there but now know I can swim over to the flag and yank on it a few times to get a fellar up. :-) Kidding of course. It would have been bad to read about someone being dragged by a rope because someone stole the flag attached to it.
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