| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/26/2008 2:46:23 PM
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In case you haven't heard, see link...
URL: http://www.wsfa.com/global/story.asp?s=8071723
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What effect does this have on existing boats? Are the grandfathered ?
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 9:02:41 AM
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ANY boat over 26'11" "capable" of 60mph is not grandfathered period. All Houseboats/Cruisers currently on the lake "and kept in a slip at a marina are grandfathered. Any newcomer must be under 30'6" or less, and kept in slip at marina with pump out station if it's a cruiser (who owns most of those marinas). Any boat under 26'11" can be capable of any speed and fall under no regulations. Any boat currently in inventory at a marina can still be sold and placed on the lake. Any boat under 30'6" and not "capable of" 60 and not a "cruiser" (head galley, etc) can ride on. Now, I have read this probably like a million times, probably not right, but this is how I see it.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 9:17:27 AM
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is there any exception for sail boats?
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
how do you measure length?
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Date:
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3/27/2008 9:19:37 AM
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is the 26'11" a water line length or an overall length
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I would consider this a violation to your constitutional right , article 2 section 10 ex-post-facto. It should be grandfathered period if you can prove you were there before the law was put into place. This would not allow you to trade or upgrade, but would allow you to keep what you had that was existing. I would be livid if I owned a boat this size and was told I couldn't keep it! What ever happened to just personal accountability?!I guess it went with the handshake.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Well.....
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Date:
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3/27/2008 9:58:25 AM
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These are questions we have had for two years. Not sure why or what the answer is.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
how do you measure length?
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Date:
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3/27/2008 10:26:04 AM
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I thought that ex post facto as it is used in the Constitution, meant that no law could be passed that punnished you for an act that you committed when that act was not against the law.
For instance it would be unconstitutional if a law said that everybody who drove a boat over 27 feet in 2002 is now guilt of a crime for having done so.
A good example why every thing should not be grandfathered:
In many states the crime of rape could not be commited against ones wife. Common Law rape was forced intercourse with a woman not your wife.
The law in most states has changed. Would you argue that if a man was forcing his wife befor the change he should be able to continue the practice. I think not.
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| Name: |
Crimson4Lif
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| Subject: |
I hate
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Date:
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3/27/2008 12:35:43 PM
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that this law has been upheld/passed. I really don't think the outcome is going to be beneficial in the terms of wake and noise. I know the people with the bigger boats tend to take care of them very well and rarely if ever have I seen them cause problems. I really can't ever recall seeing one tied up to a police boat. It should be an interesting summer to say the least but with all the grandfathered ones still there I doubt the few that are no longer allowed will change the surroundings. Steve....it ain't over 27 foot but your welcome to hitch a ride anytime you want. There is always plenty of beer and tig ol bitties with me.
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| Name: |
head
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 12:58:21 PM
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Look up the golden rule. Those with the gold rule
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| Name: |
ChrisCraft
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 1:25:59 PM
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To people unhappy with this bill....you can't be serious. You honestly feel LM is the place for these bohemoths? Unfortunately "stupid" has had to be regulated in this country in many ways that I have not agreed with in the past but this situation requires it. Take the barges to the Gulf....they are made for that environment.
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| Name: |
AnchorbayDon
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 1:38:21 PM
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Sorry for your loss, CAT! We all tried!
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
I hate
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Date:
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3/27/2008 1:45:46 PM
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Thanks for the invite.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 1:52:13 PM
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Its funny, I understand that people on each side feel strongly about their points. But, you are including alot of distinguished people "Stupid".... How does that fair for you?
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| Name: |
ecstasypoint
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 3:14:58 PM
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Don't sweat it CC if people want to go ahead and include themselves in with those who need to have their common sense legislated. To me complaining about this is like buying an expensive fast sports car and then complaining that we have a speed limit. Special interests may have pushed for this. Or maybe someone was out on the water on a Saturday in July and said "Dang. This lake is getting out of control." Freshwater asks the right question. Where is personal accountability? It's not just the big boaters who seem to have forgotten all about courtesy and care. In fact, they are often the ones who know it best. It is a shame when anyone loses their rights, really. But if you look at the lakes of the world, you can pretty much guess that the big boaters will not be the last to lose some rights before it's over. Since people don't have that personal accountability (otherwise known as boaters' courtesy), the rules are necessary. Personally, I've only been swamped by a cigar boat once or twice.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
Boat Bill
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Date:
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3/27/2008 4:20:13 PM
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"Personally, I've only been swamped by a cigar boat once or twice."
And how many times have you been swamped by a canoe? Or even a jonboat? Or a 17-foot Stingray?
"With great power comes great responsibility" is more than just a line from the Spiderman movie. In this case, too many people with great power-- big POWERFUL boats-- failed to act responsibly when it mattered. Because of those few, many must pay the price. (Self-policing by the responsible owners would help, but that's just asking the impossible; on a lake this size with this many boats, there's only so much than someone can do.)
My personal point of view is that cigar boats and other built-for-speed craft are not the problem; it's those giant-cruisers-that-belong-on-the-ocean that throw the massive wakes (because people won't, don't, or can't operate them correctly) that cause dock and shoreline damage, and turn the lake into a mini-ocean. It's hard for a cigar boat to do any damage without suffering damage itself; the cruisers leave a wake of destruction behind them, and the drivers are either oblivious, or uncaring. And if you want to get people mad at you, act oblivious or uncaring towards them and something that is important to them.
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| Name: |
Nutin Bitein
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 4:31:02 PM
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Houseboats, and big fast boats do not leave a wake like a wakeboarding boat. I have never seen a big boat ( like a Cat Boat) fly through a small cove kicking up a wake sending peoples boats smashing against thier docks. What the heck is wrong with a houseboat there's over 40,000 acers to explore.
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| Name: |
ecstasypoint
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 5:23:10 PM
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I've seen a cigar boat causing havoc in a slough, but there are so many others out there causing the same or worse all the time. I have never ever seen a house boat causing anybody any problems anywhere on the lake, accept maybe some unsightliness as they sink after being left abandoned for years. Mythbuster, no I have never been swamped by a canoe, but I have been swamped in my canoe by the Marine Police who came up on me fast concerned about my flotation cushion, which I needed after they swamped me. Thank goodness I had it. Every boat out there has the potential to harm somebody. That's why I think pointing fingers at certain boats is a bit silly when in fact it is a certain kind of boater that causes problems much more than a certain kind of boat.
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| Name: |
Pier Pressure
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 5:41:02 PM
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I understand the desire to keep Lake Martin as-is versus turning it into a Lake Lanier. But with the current development there will be alot of new "small" boats on the water, which will stir it up even worse than an occasional cruiser.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 6:45:16 PM
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Then we agree that the root problem is the driver, not the boat. But since we can't get rid of the bad drivers, we need to put them in boats that will do as little damage as possible. For the moment, that means boats that fall below certain parameters of size and power.
Though I don't think we'll ever see the boat ban expanded to include even smaller boats, I'm pretty confident that IF that were to happen, it would be because the same sort of people who caused the initial ban didn't learn their lesson.
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| Name: |
BayPineYankee
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 8:03:26 PM
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exactly who are "the sort of people" who caused the ban? The ones I have seen have expensive, powerful boats and run them up the middle of the river. Sure, there may be a speed danger but the erosion argument does not apply to them. Their waves are mostly dissipated by the time they reach shore. The ban fails in its essential purpose as long as there are no limits to keep minimum distances away from piers. A wakeboard boat with full ballast can wreak more havoc to shorelines and seawalls than most any other type of boat currently in use on the lake, cruisers included.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
It can't be just the wakes
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Date:
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3/27/2008 10:12:03 PM
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This entire issue is almost civil this time around. Remember, you all gave me heart surgery at the begining of this. Funny.
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| Name: |
Nutin Bitein
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| Subject: |
well said
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Date:
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3/28/2008 9:20:18 AM
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"Every boat out there has the potential to harm somebody. That's why I think pointing fingers at certain boats is a bit silly when in fact it is a certain kind of boater that causes problems much more than a certain kind of boat. "
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| Name: |
Aussie77
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| Subject: |
Boat Ban PLUS
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Date:
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4/8/2008 6:56:21 PM
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Mythbuster...it seems that you fallen for the myths that have been force fed to you. If you truly agree that the large boats do not cause "the problem" then why are you for the boat ban? If you actually believe that the people are the problem why would you ban people that actually know something about boating rules and boating safety? I promise you now that you can NOT be ignorant and careless when driving the larger boats. These boats are delicate, expensive items to maintain and fix and not the easiest things to drive or maneuver.
I too have an issue with those on the lake that are not courteous, educated safe drivers. I see that much more frequently in PWC and even pontoon boats driven by younger inexperienced drivers borrowing from someone. I am infuriated by parents that use Jetski's and seadoo's as weekend babysitters. The amount of people out there that have never taken a boating class and driving a vessel is scary! That is why we have laws demanding a vessel license to drive a boat. Banning those boats driven by people that take auxiliary classes several times a year for the well-being of their boat....never mind the discounts...is never going to fix the issue that you perceive.
Lake Martin was caught up in the windfall of the developers greed and legislative connections on Lake Harris. This law has indeed opened the door for other more widespread legislation. With the way that the lake is growing the next "issue" will be overcrowding. There are lakes that require permits for all vessels on their water. It is a waitlist system to get a new boat on the lake. Someone must give up their "spot/permit" for you to have the opportunity to have a boat.
Most boating restrictions around the country are directed toward PWC's. Many bodies of water restrict them all together and many others have speed limits, shore distance restrictions and other additional rules. They will be the next thing to go at Lake Martin. It is a proven fact that they do cause environmental problems (pollution, erosion) and are responsible for the greatest percentage of accidents and tickets per volume.
The onslaught of rules and bans are just beginning until we stand up for ourselves.
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