| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/18/2008 2:31:04 PM
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We are new to Smith Lake and have a small house on Lick Creek. Is there the possibility that there will soon be year round water? We love our little cabin & have no intention of selling but it would be nice to be able to fish in our beautiful area year round. We can't even put our boat in and leave it at the dock. Is ther any hope in the near future?
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/19/2008 6:33:15 PM
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Become active in our fight to stop APC from mismanaging our lake, contact SLISA for informatiom on what you can do and what is being done.
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/20/2008 1:18:13 PM
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Thank you, is there anyone in particular that I should talk too? We were there at the house this week and there was water. When we bought the cabin last year in Jan. there was no water. Is this water unusual? We live in Huntsville and know almost nothing about Smith Lake except that it is beautiful. We were rather ignorant of the whole water situation when we bought the cabin. We just knew that the lake is beautul. Thank you so much for any info that you can give us. JJ
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/21/2008 1:06:22 AM
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Who's Lake? :scratchhead:
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/21/2008 7:31:53 PM
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Bill you don't appear to be very knowledgeable about who owns the lake, so here it is. The lake is public property, which means it is ours the people of this great country. APC only owns the rights to the shoreline and has a license to operate the dam.
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/21/2008 8:00:06 PM
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Thank you for the info thus far. I appreciate the stand that you are taking and some, like Bill, seem to have an attitude problem. Why would anyone not want the people of Smith Lake to not have water year round?
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 10:20:26 AM
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Apparently it's not.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 10:21:33 AM
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I'm confused. I have water year round? Don't you?
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 2:08:13 PM
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Do you have very many friends? Probably not.
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| Name: |
turnipgreen
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 3:24:06 PM
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I am Bill's friend. I'm sure I have other friends that don't agree with Bill as well. While he and others do point out the extreme end of this argument, I have to say that there are an equal number that point out the extreme other end. while APC may not have unending rights to the lake, they do have some rights, and to say that just because there are houses on smith now that they need to make it nice for everyone all the time isn't realistic. Just like saying they can drain it if they want, that isn't realistic either.
I'm sure APC can do a better job. But I'm also grateful they built a dam, so we can have a lake. I wish it would stay higher at least through August and September. But I don't want them to fill it up now then have to flood someone later if we get normal rain.
I'm on nobody's side, except to say you guys argue too much, and take it personally.
Ron
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 4:50:45 PM
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You are right and I was not being very nice. As I said, we are new to the area and don't know all the ends and outs of it, but It would be nice to have water at least until winter and even through winter so we could use our boat to fish. Sorry Bill, and you are fortunate to have good friends. I hope that everyone has a great christmas.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 5:08:07 PM
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Bill i'm so happy for you to have year round water. I have year round water too, but that does'nt mean it's deep or that its up enough to launch a boat besides having year round water I also have a boat dock that I bought from David Rice. Oh yea, I paid for mine after it was delivered. Do your research you would have too.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 5:10:24 PM
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Bill i'm so happy for you to have year round water. I have year round water too, but that does'nt mean it's deep or that its up enough to launch a boat besides having year round water I also have a boat dock that I bought from David Rice. Oh yea, I paid for mine after it was delivered. Do your research you would have too.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 6:42:09 PM
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Yep. I have plenty of friends. :)
Thanks Ron. :urock:
I also don't take ANYTHING I read on an internet forum personally. I don't know you, you don't know me. It makes no sense to let anything someone says - including how you'll respond to this post - bother me. Not in the least. I really don't care.
I own two properties on the lake. I paid a lot of money for them. They're in established subdivisions and they have deep water year round. I paid a premium for that. I knew - years ago - when I bought them that the lake rises and falls. I wanted water year round so I paid more for a lot that would have that. I ALMOST bought a lot that was seasonal. I figured 'who cares? I'll never use the lake in the winter anyway'. If I had done that I'd probably be on your side. But I didn't. So I'm not.
As I see it there is really only ONE group of people making a big stink about the lower water levels in the winter time. Land developers. They have thousands of feet of 'seasonal' property that they'd love to sell at 'seasonal' prices. That's how this battle began. They've fought it for awhile but one of them got the idea to try to get all the other seasonal owners to help pay their legal bills by getting you all on the band wagon.
I'm not going to do it. I refuse to pay to fight other peoples battles.
This reminds me of the people who buy homes on the end of the runway of an airport. The prices are much cheaper for those homes. People don't want to live there because it is a) too noisy and b) 'dangerous' - a plane may fall out of the sky and hit my house'. After they buy their property they all get together and put together a little SLISA type organization of their own... the next thing you know they're shutting down the airport. I'm not talking about O'Hare... although there are little SLISA type organizations there too that get runways closed at night or all together... causing delays in aircraft arrival and departure and causing YOUR flights to be late or delayed. I'm talking about the little general aviation airports... the ones that people who like to fly for recreation use. THOSE airports get closed down all the time by groups of people who just don't want them near their house anymore. Even though the airport has been there for 50 years. Is that fair?
I don't care. Really I don't. But I have an opinion just like you. My opinion says I bought the lot knowing the water level can rise and fall 20' or more in the year. That's why I paid MORE money for my lot than you did for yours. I don't care that you don't have water in the winter. You could have bought a year round lot just like everyone else. I SURE don't care if the land developers make three million bucks on their seasonal property rather than a million.
Before you start telling me that you're really only interested in being sure you have water in the summer... because the last few years APCO has been screwing you out of your summer water... don't bother. We have had that discussion before. We've been in a terrible drought for the last half decade or so. This summer it seems to be moving out of it. Great. The lake levels are better too. What a coincidence.
I know everyone wants to blame the low summer water levels over the last few years on APCO. Go for it. I don't.
Happpy Holidays Yall.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 6:47:47 PM
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Ow. You fight dirty. :)
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 6:50:00 PM
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I guess we'll start talking about each others mama's now huh? :)
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/22/2008 8:37:47 PM
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Nah, I would never blame your mother for you being stupid. After all Mothers know best maybe you should have listen.
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 10:32:21 AM
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Bill, how lovely that you have a deep water lot. I wish that we could have afforded one, but we could not. We shall fight on the side of SLISA. In our research, we have found that what they have to say make perfect sense. i don't see that they are trying to make millions, just trying to make things better for others on the lake and the enviornment too. Why are you so against others having the luxury that you enjoy? You say that you don't care,but obviously you do. You care very much.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 10:37:51 AM
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Bill, just because you paid more for your property does not mean people who pay less should have less. that's like saying just because Walmart paid less for their land in Moulton than they did in Huntsville that the people of Moulton should only be able to shop part of the year. You paid more because you probaly had alot of the things that people in other parts don't have, like paved roads, sewer, you may have water while others have wells. Your location could add value and the surrounding properties add value to you. Everyone deserves year round water regardless of what you think or paid . this would add tax dollars to the area as well it would make property values go up for everyone including you. As far as developers goes, Your place would not be here if a developer had design your community. Everyone should come together to protect our lake not just water levels but the enviroment as well and yes Bill at some point the developers must be stopped in order to enjoy the natural beauty of the lake.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 10:47:06 AM
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I am not familiar with Lick Creek but would like to know what area of the the lake it's located. Welcome to Smith Lake and thanks for caring about our lake and what happens to it. You will find some of the property owners work for APC and don't see things both ways. Truth is it should have been named Alabama Liar Company. We will continue our fight and someday hopefully soon APC will see that we see right thru them and will expose their greed.
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| Name: |
Binza46
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 2:27:35 PM
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Well said Bill.
I also have year round water and I dont care if the developers dont. That was their problem when they bought the land. I also believe the lake can not take much more development. Its a waterway of rivers and sloughs that is already packed full on weekends and holidays to the point navigation is becoming hazardous.
Ive been on the lake since the mid 60's and have never seen the traffic pressure as bad as the last couple years. The lake is quickly becoming undesirable as more homes, boats and traffic are continually introduced.
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| Name: |
Binza46
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 2:35:20 PM
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Thats a ridiculous analogy.
In residential real estate you pay more for prime locations and thats the way its always been.
I dont work for the power company either.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 5:13:30 PM
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You are correct, you do pay more for prime location,but it does'nt mean you receive less service for your money. People pay more for lots that have a gentle slope to the water than people do that's up on top of a cliff even if both properties have year round water. The amount of the water is only a small part of the value of the land. It's everything combine , location, county water , paved roads, sewer, phone , other homes ect. All this is why people pay more not just because you have year round water. Fact is Bill is mad because somebody is trying to better themselves and the lake, and he is afraid he will realize he is not as important as he would like others to believe. You see you don't have to rich to enjoy the lake and just because you may have more money does'nt mean you should get to enjoy the lake more than someone who is not as fortunate.
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| Name: |
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/23/2008 10:31:37 PM
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thank you LOCOonwater for making so much sense. Why can't others understand what you are trying to say and do. Why are there such bad attitudes toward people who want to just enjoy the lake.
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| Name: |
Bill
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/24/2008 11:02:41 AM
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No, not really Mr. Troll.
I'll give you another shot though... because each time you call me stupid and tell me how pitiful I am because I have no friends you only show your true colors and intelligence. You also show how you can so easily be riled up by others.
What I am 'mad' about - as you call it - is that the land developers (gee I wonder how much seasonal land you own that you'd like to sell?) are using the hard earned money of their previous customers to front their fight against APCO. Surely they can pay their lawyer fees themselves don't you think? What is it that the local Joe expects for their money to SLISA? Year round water? Why? It's never been that way. Do you seriously think that APCO has no idea how to properly run a reservoir? They've only been doing it for 47 years (at least).
Or perhaps you don't know what a reservoir is? Or what its purpose is for? Here is a nice article that explains it for you. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reservoir
In it you'll notice that reservoirs are built for recreational reasons along with civic reasons. But don't you think the civic reasons should have priority? I do. It sounds to me like you want to be happy and don't really care about anyone below the dam that counts on APCO running the reservoir properly to keep them from being flooded, and to keep the river navigable.
No. You're making it clear now. This is all about you.
You're boring me man. I'll just back out of here for awhile and let you continue to rant until the next time I feel like responding to one of your ridiculous posts. Don't worry about me. I'll feel safe knowing that no matter what happens, APCO will continue to run the reservoir the way the goverment intends it to be run... without regard to how people who decided to build a home on its banks think they should do it.
Happy Holidays everyone! :thumbsup:
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Water levels - Bill
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Date:
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12/24/2008 11:40:24 AM
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Bill:
I have a question for you is Smith Lake the only lake wanting to have their water levels raised.
I think not, right now Logan Martin, Martin and several other Alabama lakes are involved with APCO relicensing and one of the primary issues on the table for all is having their water levels raised.
It is not all about the homeowners, developers, etc a lot of folks know that what ever is agreed to regarding the rule curve during the relicensing process is set in stone of the next 20+ years. So it is not about you or me it is about the future of Alabama lakes and what such could bring to the local economy in terms of growth, jobs, sales tax revenues, property values and the like.
So there is a lot more at stake than developers wanting more year round water, which I am sure they do, but the major issue for me is the future of the lakes supporting and helping grow the local economies and what such could provide to future generations in the next 20+ years.
And yes I agree with regards to downstream requirements, flooding, etc. That is why they have 100 year flood plan studies and such to evaluate the risk of such a catastrophe, which from my understanding is minimal at best.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels - Bill
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Date:
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12/24/2008 6:48:10 PM
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Thanks Maverick although I know you probally don't agree with everything I post you seem to very intelligent about what's going on with the fight to raise the water levels. You are correct it's the big picture that is at stake here, the future of the lake, and all whom come to be apart of it. As for you Bill grow up.
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| Name: |
Binza46
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/26/2008 11:12:02 AM
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Disagree...
water level is not a "service", its an amenity. Amenities have value and year round water, along with slope, are primary factors in pricing lake lots on Smith. The other factors you mention are secondary at best and not nearly as important as slope and water. Those who buy lots with seasonal water get what they pay for...seasonal water. It was known before they bought and they didnt have to pay as much as someone with year round water. This is a basic principle that many with seasonal water dont want to comprehend.
You dont buy a house next to rail road tracks then start a campaign proclaiming your rights to peace and quiet are being violated. You dont buy a house next to a shopping center then demand they change their store hours or reduce parking lot lighting. You dont buy a house next to a commercial development then ask the governing authority to deny building permits because you shouldn't have to live beside commercial property. The examples are endless and no different then seasonal water owners arguing their rights when they knew what they bought and got what they paid for.
Additionally, as I mentioned above, the lake can not handle much more development. Its becoming a navigational nightmare during the summer months with the ridiculous numbers of boats and PWC. We keep nudging into the Bankhead, we keep developing cliff lots and keep developing large tracts in shallow water. If you havent noticed, the market has taken a huge nose dive on Smith and its primarily because of over development. There are more homes on the market then ever and many have been sitting for years, not just months. Preserving what we have should be the primary concern. Further expansion will only deteriorate what we have and make the lake much less desirable.
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| Name: |
Eric
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/26/2008 4:47:08 PM
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So.....people who bought seasonal water got what they paid for, BUTthe fact that you bought property on a lake with other houses and boats and they want to enjoy their boats and pwc in the lake just as you do...somehow that's a problem? Give me a break. Perhaps you should have considered a lake with smore strict development and boating regulations.
Look, the bottom line is everyone has some agenda for their respective positions on the lake, but most of them appear to be related to improvement of the lake. Your argument is as full of holes as the ones you are responding to.
From spring through summer, we are at the lake almost every weekend. I don't see the traffic issues you are referring to. On holidays it is pretty crowded, but still nothing like some of the other lakes in this state. I've been fishing during the week several times in the summer and not see a single boat. I don't think any of us want to see the lake overdeveloped. But I don't believe a more consistent water level will have much of an impact. There seems to be many, many more deep water lots available right now than seasonal lots.
I think it's ridiculous the way they raise and lower the lake like they currently do. It's unsightly when the water is down even 10-12 feet. And SLISA through their work has shown how more beneficial it would be if the lake were held at a more consistent level.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/26/2008 5:43:32 PM
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Truth is we all agree the developing must slow down or end. By doing so it would make everyones property more valuable. Also the water levels should be as SLISA has requested at the very least. We have year round water but I also know that if everyone else does too this will not make my property less valuable.
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| Name: |
Binza46
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/27/2008 9:41:12 AM
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If my argument is full of holes then why dont you attempt to disprove it? Ranting without substance is a desperate attempt to further your low water argument.
The lake level has been fluctuating since it was built. The only reason people want to change it now is to maximize their shoreline investments.
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| Name: |
waterph
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/27/2008 11:51:40 AM
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Boloney! Who are you trying to convince?
I do not plan to sell my place on Smith Lake; I did not build it to sell; and I hope that my children, grandchildren and on continue to talk about the great memories from tthe great times spent on the water. They, like I, are concerned about the hidden dangers while tubing when the water are at the 498 level in August.
They don't think about investments, profits, seasonal lots, etc when they are out in the middle of the lake. They do not want to be injured and want to enjoy the lake for additional months. Is this unreasonable? Why should this great body of water be restricted to a 3 month period when it could be a 12 month lake with a simple investment by APC of cooling towers at Gorgas?
I'm ready for the private property owners who are not hood winked by APC and its supporters on this forum to rise up and say enough is enough. Very few property owners on this lake are classified as developers. The majority are private citizens who will settle for something fair. No one is out to destroy APC.
It has been said many times that APC owns Smith Lake. I don't think so! They are premitted by FERC to produce hydro electricity; supply drinking water; operate this body of water for recreation; and be environmentally compliant, APC does not have a free reign to do whatever they desire. If so, I'm sure that they would not spend the dollars on smoke staack emissions to meet clean air standards. APC, like other corporations, will do what they have to do.
APC does have "boss" (FERC, ADEM, EPA, etc.) that requires them to be responsible. Eventually the water issues on Smith Laqke will be resolved in a responsible manner. Corporate America is in a new era and must adjust.
Smith Lake was not built for Gorgas. Gorgas is finally being discussed in a manner that shows its need for masssive water releases from Smith Lake during the hot months. Why has this been denied by APC for so long? I think that I know why. SLISA is doing a good job of detailing what the real issues are for water level fluctuations.
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| Name: |
LOCOonWater
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/27/2008 9:07:21 PM
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I could not agree more. Your opinion is exactly what the majority of the land owners that I know want.
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| Name: |
Eric
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/28/2008 9:41:33 PM
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Hogwash. You don't have a clue as to why many of us would like to see more consistent lake levels. You may know someone who simply wants to "maximize his shoreline investment", but how do you extrapolate that one person to the other people on this forum that you don't know? That's a pretty narrow conclusion to arrive at, one simply based on your judgement, and deserves very little credibility.
Regardless of whether the lake has fluctuated for 100 years or 5 years, that's no reason for these fluctuations to continue. "Because we've always done it this way" is no guarantee that there is not a better approach.
By the way, that previous post wasn't a rant, and it wasn't without substance. My point, which you apparantly didn't get in the previsous post, was a simple comparison. You consider that the fact that people who bought seasonal water lots, knew this water to be seasonal, and simply got what they paid for. However, you consider traffic and development on the lake to be a problem, even thought you must have known when you purchased your property that there was a potential for there to be increased development and increase in boat traffic. Unless your purchase contract had some detail prohibiting further development on the lake, sounds like you got what you paid for to me. I don't want encontrolled development any more than the next person, but your argument is just contradictory.
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| Name: |
keyman
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| Subject: |
Water levels
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Date:
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12/30/2008 8:39:22 AM
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Binza46
You are correct to say the lake has fluctuated since it was built, however, to infer it fluctuates in the same manner is completely wrong. The whole arguement revolves around APC not following the rule curve.
Since the addition of Gorgas unit #10 in 1972-73 the lake has been used for a cooling tower not a peaking hydro facility. Under the SLISA proposal more hydro power is generated and Navigation requirements are met as well as flood control and drinking water. If APC had followed its own rule curve the lake would be at the 504.5 on Labor Day, but typically it is well below the 500. The fault lies with APC not following its own rule curve.
This is the time to try to resolve this matter. ifIf APC renews its license it will be at least for 30 years and maybe as long as 50 years.
Binza46 I have always agreed that everyone has the right to their opinion, but our opinions are better founded on facts not hearsay. I encourage you to do your own research about the facts.
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To everyone,
I agree most highly that everyone is entitled to their opinion, there is no question to that. Yet, I have always heard that APC built and owns Smith Lake. But I have also heard what a few of you have stated that since the Gorgas Steam Plant was built, the lake water has been used for cooling the water in the hot Summer months. Now, I am no expert by no means and most certainly do not know everything about this beautiful lake. Yet I do believe some alterations could be made. Since the lake is so large, it is one of the best recreational lakes in the state. Therefore I do believe cooling towers to be purchased is not a bad idea. Also, for the time being, people that have seasonal water do not really have a true leg to stand on.
This is why when they purchased the land it was labeled as "seasonal water". People, from experience, know that the way the lake level is controlled that there is a possibility that this place on the lake may or may not have water all year long.
Yet, I do believe strongly that the set rule level for the water benefits many people both landowners and tourists. With all the money spent from property tax and marina, gas, parks, etc..., not all this money is used for profit. Many of this tax money is used for benefits throughout the three counties this lake is in. This money is used in things such as schools, roads, etc..
Like I stated before, you and you alone are 100% entitled to your own opinion. Hopefully both sides can see eye to eye with me on some of the points I made. If you don't agree with me on any of this, it's only my opinion not 100% facts. I would only like to see this lake become a safe place where people and families can go to relax and have fun, and no one have to worry about pollution or not having any water at all. Smith Lake is a beautiful place, lets try to keep it that way.
thanks,
watercruiser1214
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