| Name: |
Edge
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 9:57:30 AM
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Why has this not made Fow News?
URL: Auburn City Councilman
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| Name: |
4thelake
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 10:27:48 AM
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Wow. The politician just doesn't get it. Its not about the "rally". Its about the right to, even if it makes your blood boil, do anything you want within the law because we live in a free country. Offensive or not, it is the right of every citizen of this free country to worship, demonstrate, and so on. Does it make my furious to see someone who lives in the US burn a flag. Yes it does, but it is there right to do so. Ask any member of the military why they to war. I will bet the overwhelming answer is to protect the rights of our citizens to do these things. Any member of government you would expect to understand this. Again he just doesn't get it.
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| Name: |
solvacc
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 12:45:38 PM
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Do you think posting a link to a blog where the author threatens to bring the Klan to Auburn will endear you to this forum? The two sides have already come to an agreement. There is no place for this kind of hate on this board...
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| Name: |
green,ed
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 12:50:27 PM
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Where was the hate?
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| Name: |
D-dub
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 12:57:47 PM
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Chill out Solvacc, I think Edge was just trying to inform and discuss.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 12:59:59 PM
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I'm thinking the hate is the part where this columnist threatens to have a rally and bring skin heads and the Klan to Auburn.
Don't think stories like this are worthy of public notice. If the person who put the flags on the graves was exercising his right to free speech, so was the councilman.
I think intelligent people here can understand why black people in the South are sensitive to this. And while I think in some ways it is foolish to try to deny that slavery existed and the sons of the Confederacy fought to keep a way of life, I also think life is too short for everyone to keep on with this issue. Why can't both sides just let it go?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
You are dead wrong!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 1:14:00 PM
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The graves are private deeded property. Taking anything form them is theft. Being on them is trespassing. The councilman was wrong. He knew he was wrong, but most likely wanted publicity.
How would you feel if after you are worm food somebody placed a sign, plaque, symbol, etc on your grave that promoted the ASPCA and some nutjob that didn't like the ASPCA came along and took it? If I could remove everything that offends me, the world would be a lot less crowded because I would 'remove' all the liberals. They offend me. What is the difference?
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| Name: |
4thelake
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| Subject: |
You are dead wrong!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 1:16:21 PM
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Swimmer has got it. There is no way the councilman was anything but wrong.
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| Name: |
solvacc
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| Subject: |
Sorry, I overreacted
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Date:
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4/27/2009 1:39:16 PM
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Sorry guys/gals. I've seen this same article in the associated press. I was surprised that a blog post threatening to bring the Klan to my beloved Auburn was chosen instead of it, which I thought suggested a hidden agenda by the original poster. I realize now that some probably didn't see the original piece. My bad.
No worries.
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| Name: |
solvacc
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| Subject: |
Well, playing devil's advocate
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Date:
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4/27/2009 1:45:34 PM
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if the APSCA turned into a hate symbol (like the swastika) then I would probably be upset that someone placed it on my grave. Probably should use the national confederate flag (stars and bars) and not the battle flag. I don't think it carries the same negative connotations.
URL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flags_of_the_Confederate_States_of_America
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| Name: |
Edge
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| Subject: |
You are dead wrong!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 1:56:58 PM
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I was not trying to promote the Klan by any means. I was just bring to light that an Auburn City Official (no matter black or white) was taking this kind of action toward something that is near and dear to some.
There are many people out there that embrace their heritage and demand respect for it. Just as others embrace their ancestors and take offense to anyone disrespecting it.
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| Name: |
DroughtBuster
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| Subject: |
Looks like I missed
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Date:
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4/27/2009 2:29:36 PM
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this mornings Klan meeting.
Edge, you should get the memo out the day before.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
You are dead wrong!
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Date:
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4/27/2009 2:43:27 PM
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That's the main point. Do I agree with racism in any form, no. That door of racism swings both ways. The idea that a confederate flag is so reprehensible is absurd. People like that Councilman need to grow up and not give something like those flags have so much power over him he failed to control himself. That's really the saddest part of all of this.
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| Name: |
lakeplumber
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| Subject: |
Well, playing devil's advocate
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Date:
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4/27/2009 4:04:31 PM
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1. The flags are not a symbol of hate, even if some whacked out councilman thinks so.
2. Lot of things offend me, that does not give me the right to break the law; the same applies to the councilman.
3. If someone place a picture of a "black clenched fist" on Martin Luther Kings grave, and then someone else comes along and rips it off because it "offends" him is it wrong? You bet!
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Don't misunderstand
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Date:
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4/27/2009 4:58:23 PM
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I don't think the Councilman was right in removing the flags. He was wrong to do it, no matter how offended or intimidated he was. There are many other things he could do from writing a letter to the editor, to proposing a restriction on such things in Auburn. If the flags were only being placed on Confederate soldiers graves, it's hard to find fault -- those soldier fought for that flag and what it represented to them.
Without knowing more about the councilman, it's hard to know if he was seeking publicity or if he was sincerely overcome by emotion. The columnist is sincerely out of line with his threat.
And I continue to think it is time for BOTH sides to let this go. We can't change the history of our country. I wonder if the columnist would have reacted as he did if a white person had removed the flags as "offensive"? Would he still have threatened a rally with skinheads and Klan members?
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| Name: |
lakeplumber
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| Subject: |
Don't misunderstand
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Date:
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4/27/2009 6:44:05 PM
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I agree with everything you said BUT, I find it an offsided play when it isn't dealt with evenly and fairly in the media. They are simply not getting on this in the same fashion if the circumstances were reversed. Had a white person desecrated a few black civil rights workers graves simply because there was a "perceived" offense displayed at/on the grave, the national news would be non-stop reporting this and you could bet there would be some civil disobedience/marches/protests conducted by the black community.
Things happened in history, I did not cause it nor had no part in it. I refuse to laden with a pseudo-guilt because it happened simply because I am white. Crime stastics rarely get reported by demographics. In 2002 there were 1,916,380 black on white crimes, yet 362,784 white on black crimes with only 1689 of these being "hate" crimes. When it comes down to one race mistreating another, believe me there is plenty enough blame to pass around to everyone.
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| Name: |
spotking
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| Subject: |
Don't misunderstand
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Date:
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4/28/2009 1:33:14 PM
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I do not post very often and I just read most of the time but this is one that I feel needs to be addressed. Everyone needs to understand that these flags are on the graves of Confederate men that fought in the war. This flag is not a hate flag and anyone that thinks it is needs to read up on the history of the flag. Of course the klan used it and used it incorrectly and that is why the flag is hated by so many. People should relate white hoods with klan and leave the flag alone that so many Confederate men carried to battle.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Interestingly
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Date:
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4/28/2009 3:03:12 PM
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I just read in the newspaper today that Sunday was the actual Confederate Memorial Day and apparently the Daughters of the Confederacy put those flags on the graves. As the article pointed out, there is no racism or hatred involved, just a day to remember history and those that served the Confederacy. I don't see anything wrong with it.
I was born in NJ, and the Revolutionary War is a big deal there. Lots of historical observations and re-enactments, but I've yet to hear a British-American take offense.
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| Name: |
Hamstonian
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/28/2009 11:25:51 PM
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My thoughts, since you asked for comment...
1) Using that link was incredibly bad judgement (the most generous assumption)
2) I feel dirty having clicked on it.
3) I wish no one would display the rebel flag.
4) The councilman was wrong to remove the flags, although...
5) If someone (third party) leaves something on a grave of someone not related, and by doing so is making a plausibly political statement, would not anyone have the right to make a statement by removing them. I know not the law on it, but true freedom would allow both I think.
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| Name: |
bamagirl
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/28/2009 11:33:00 PM
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Talked with a DAR member personally and they are thanking the
man. They have never had this much press.
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| Name: |
Viewpoint
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/29/2009 2:23:21 AM
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Ok, I tried to sit this one out.
Coming from the position of being a student who has grown up in the South and taken extensive courses covering the South, Racism and Social Class, I feel as though this article opens up the chance for great dialog between both sides.
In regards to the Battle Flag of the Confederacy, one has to look at the group that is flying it in order to ascertain its meaning. If the flag is being flown over Confederate grave sites, or at Reenactments, there is generally little, if any racist sentiment applied. While the flag inherently breeds images of slavery and discrimination in the old South, one has to respect the fact that these men fought and died for a cause they believed in (state's rights, not necessarily slavery, only 5% of the population of the South were slave holders), and should be able to be buried under the flag they fought for.
On the other hand, groups such as the KK K and the skinheads have taken the flag and have used it to represent racism and try to intimidate African Americans. In our society, we cannot tolerate those who support those ideals, and it is our duty to stand up to anyone who supports those thoughts.
This dual usage of the flag inevitably makes for hard feelings. There have been numerous cases involving the Battle Flag throughout the South over the past decade, including changing the State Flag of Georgia and removing the Battle Flag from the State Court House of South Carolina. These harsh feelings will probably not go away in our lifetimes, so we must look for compromise and understanding.
We also have to remember that Alabama was a hotbed for racism during the civil rights movement. Looking at the Lake Martin Community, there were several incidents involving Reeltown, Camp Hill and Dadeville (Ralph Gray incident), so the issue does hit close to home.
Unfortunately there is no good answer in regards to what to do about the situation. Some propose compromise, including flying the Stars and Bars instead of the Battle Flag. However, I do not see this issue going away until we can look past the flag itself and see the person or group that is flying it in order to derive the meaning that they are trying to portray, be it heritage or hatred.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Any thoughts on this!
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Date:
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4/29/2009 8:23:00 AM
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You captured the essence of this beautifully. Thanks for jumping in.
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