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Obama raised the issue of allowing gays to serve openly in the Military.
This is an incredibly passionate issue for the military. I don't know why Presidents feel the need to tackle this issue. Yes, there are gays in the military and everyone knows it, but to shove this issue down the military's throat, particularly at this time, is just so incredibly stupid.
I know what the attitude will be in the Pentagon tomorrow -- it won't be pretty. I worked there when Clinton made this his first issue --
Doesn't the military have enough problems right now?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hound
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Date:
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1/27/2010 11:58:41 PM
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You don't think this was discussed with Gates and the Joint Chiefs before the speech?
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I'm sure it was fully vetted. But you notice that none of the Joint Chiefs were standing and applauding as they did when Obama talked about veterans benefits.
It's a very touchy issue. I personally think it is one that they ought to let change in an "evolutionary" way, consistent with cultural norms.
When "don't ask, don't tell" was introduced, I personally thought it was a lot of hoopla about nothing. But after protracted discussions with some of my male military colleagues, I became convinced that outside an administrative setting, and "in the field" this actually would be bad for morale, and could actually be very dangerous for gays who decided to serve "openly". We're just not that evolved yet as a culture -- and particularly not in the "male dominated" military culture that is still just getting used to women in combat scenerios.
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Just another stupid thing by Obama. You have to wonder if these are his ideas or his advisors. Does he really think this is such an important issue that the don't ask, don't tell, can't work.
Wow.
While some of his tax cut proposals last night in his speech were good ... the problem is they are a year late. These are some of the things we should have been doing a year ago .... and had he, he probably would have been getting all his other agenda items. But instead he thought he could push these other lame programs that did not work.
Now h is going to issue an executive order on spending .... he is still blaming Bush when in his first year he made Bush look like a tight wad.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Uh-oh
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Date:
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1/28/2010 10:10:58 AM
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Here is an excerpt from Wikipedia on the term "gay":
"The use of gay to mean "homosexual" was in origin merely an extension of the word's sexualised connotation of "carefree and uninhibited", which implied a willingness to disregard conventional or respectable sexual mores."
Can such an attitude possibly be consistent with the order and discipline critical to military life and more importantly successful military operations?
In any case, for someone who has never served in the military to make such a unilateral decision reflects an arrogance and disregard for the military that is downright despicable - but then look at the other guy who made such a decision...seems to be a pattern here.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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Uh-oh
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Date:
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1/28/2010 10:20:00 AM
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My time in the Navy was in the late 60s, and the gay issue was the cause for a few 'blanket' parties for some suspects, where a blanket was thrown over the person in a dark passage way while they were pounded about the head and shoulders. Never knew of any reports or court martials coming out of them. (Let be clear,I was never a participant or recipent!) I doubt the attitude has changed that much from the people who join nowadays.
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You mean like he vetted his remarks about the Supreme Court reversing over 100 years of law with his comment about their most recent campaign finance ruling? Funny, he was called out nationally by Alito when he uttered NOT TRUE. That makes two speeches in that chamber where he has been called a liar. His arrogance is deplorable. Since when in a SOTU speech do you throw the military and the SCOTUS under the bus?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Who Said It
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Date:
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1/28/2010 11:33:08 AM
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Any idea who said this????
"The conservative movement, to which I subscribe, has as one of its basic tenets the belief that government should stay out of people's private lives. Government governs best when it governs least - and stays out of the impossible task of legislating morality. But legislating someone's version of morality is exactly what we do by perpetuating discrimination against gays."
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| Name: |
lamont
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Like I said.....
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1/28/2010 11:47:41 AM
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The Fish-eyed fool maybe a little "light in the loafers."
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Tent City, first gulf War
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Date:
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1/28/2010 8:07:55 PM
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Two willing adult Airmen, living 20 men in a tent, observed, having at it in a shower. I sent them home, and they were subsequently discharged because they violated the long held military ethic of "good order and discipline" I guess the President and left has decided that the military can adapt.. One tent/shower for straight men, another for straight women, a third for gay men and finally, a dedicated arrangement for lesbians..
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
It Was Said By
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Date:
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1/28/2010 9:08:34 PM
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the father of Conservatism and former military man Senator Barry Goldwater.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hound
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Date:
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1/28/2010 9:17:39 PM
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From Fox News " In June, Gates said he was working with his defense lawyers to find a way to make that policy more "humane." He said he'd like to ease punishments on gays who were exposed by a third party. No updates on that effort have been offered yet, but Gates will be prepared to address that as well on Tuesday, a senior defense official said.
Gates and the military leadership have been working for some time on the implementation plan. Both Gates and Mullen had multiple conversations with President Obama on the topic leading up to the president's State of the Union speech Wednesday night, the official told Fox News.
When Obama asked Congress to repeal the law in the speech, Gates stood and applauded, while Mullen and the Joint Chiefs remained stoic.
A source close to Mullen said the rest of the chiefs follow Mullen's lead and will clap only when he does. On Wednesday night, Mullen did not feel it was appropriate to show either support or contempt for such a politically charged issue, the source said."
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
It Was Said By
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Date:
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1/28/2010 9:46:29 PM
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And your point is?
We don't aspire to tell folks how kinky they can or can't be in the privacy of their bedrooms. That isn't the point. The point is that openly homosexual behavior in the military is contrary to good order and discipline. If two military members want to go off somewhere in private and perform unnatural acts on each other, fine. Just don't flaunt it among the great majority of.t those who find such behavior to be aberrant.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I think
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Date:
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1/28/2010 11:31:19 PM
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Alahusker made a good point in his post.
I either read or saw a story recently about a soldier that killed his gay roommnate -- not because the guy came onto him, but because other people in his unit teased him unmercifully about having a gay roommate and what when on there when lights were out. So one guy lost his life and another will spend his life in prison.
My conversations with military officers who spent time in the field with troops have convinced me that this issue is best left to the Military.
No doubt that Secretary Gates and Admiral Mullen have the highest and best intentions, but no matter how good the intentions, there is a large gap between a "policy" decision and the actual implemetation in the field (as we have most recently seen in Ft. Hood).
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Mr Hodja
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Date:
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1/29/2010 2:14:53 PM
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You answered your own question... What's your point"
It is actuallly as you stated. I am agreement with everything you wrote. I feel 98% of conservatives would not agree with your premise "We don't aspire to tell folks how kinky they can or can't be in the privacy of their bedrooms." Yet, that was exactly Goldwaters point.
I am quite certain Huskie, Martian, and WIX would not agree with you.
I suspect any change will include release for any overt act while on duty. This would be no different from a male and female soldier carrying on while on duty. I also don't expect alot of gays suddenly going down and enlisting.
Cheers!!!!
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Mr Hodja
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Date:
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1/29/2010 5:52:11 PM
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Eschew obfuscation.
You, of all people, shouldn't be trying to say what 98% of conservatives think.
And as for Martini Man, Alahusker, and WIX, why don't we let them answer for themselves whether they believe (1) conservatives try to legislate private behavior OR (2) whether they think that openly homosexual behavior is conducive to good order and discipline in the military. In spite of your efforts to twist words around like so much funnel cake batter, those are the real questions.
By the way, I don't think folks should engage in homosexual acts any time, but I don't try to tell them what they can or can't do in private. If I did they might try to tell me I couldn't pii behind my favorite tree in the woods behind my cabin...:>)
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Mr Hodja
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Date:
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1/29/2010 10:31:08 PM
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"You, of all people, shouldn't be trying to say what 98% of conservatives think." WHY NOT?
It is rather obvious that conservatives have proposed legislation to ban same sex marriage. It is hypocritical to deny that.
As to whether openly homosexual behavior is conducive to good order and discipline in the military, I think we can all agree it is NOT. None of anyones business off duty.
I hope I am clear, if not just let me know.
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