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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/2/2011 10:18:00 AM
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Well, well, well...nearly a trillion dollars (our money) spent to liberate and provide freedoms to the Afghans, continuous effort to win their hearts and minds, and what is the repayment? Murderous mobs killing innocent people in protest over a small group of Americans exercising their freedom IN AMERICA to protest. Such a waste of money and resources and American lives to continue to police the country. The American mission in Afghanistan was won long ago. It is up to the Afghans to determine the fate of their country. As the saying goes "History teaches everything including the future", yet our government seems incapable of learning from the past.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/2/2011 2:48:12 PM
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Don't know who I am more disgusted with -- the Afghans or that fool in Florida burning the Quar'an.
My guess is that no matter how much time and effort and money we spend in Afghanistan, we will never win their hearts and minds. They have no sense of the US, which is why I advocate us bringing home our military. We're just throwing money away.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/2/2011 4:20:35 PM
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Once we get the unmanned stealth bomber, we can enforce retribution for state sponsored terrorism from afar, with no risk of American blood.
Nation building in the face of the corrupt and feudalist Islamic culture is a waste of money and precious lives. Their brutality towards each other is minimally adjusted by our presence and they will certainly go back to violence as usual when we leave. You are right, Hound, bring our soldiers home. Cut off the money tap.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/3/2011 8:25:14 AM
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You "don't know who you are more disgusted with", the guy who burned a book, or the savages that according to ABC News killed 20 people, including 2 beheadings because a guy burned a book. Hound, you, and the white house half wit, put these events on par. Surprised no, disgusted, yes.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/3/2011 9:40:02 AM
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So you think that the fool burning the Quar'an and setting off the incident isn't just as bad as those who are reacting? WHO caused the problem? WHO is creating an international incident? WHO is risking the lives our soldiers by doing such a thoughtless act? And FOR WHAT PURPOSE???
BTW, other "nitwits" condemning the action of burning the Quar'an are General Petraeus, Our Ambassador to Afghanistan, and yes, President Obama. I feel sure our military members serving also have a few choice words for the good preacher.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/3/2011 10:24:41 AM (updated 4/3/2011 10:45:32 AM)
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Hound, how can you, the white house half wit, or the esteemed General, compare a jackass burning a book to the savage murder of 20 in alledged retaliation? I appreciate Petraeus concern with the safety of our soldiers. I also appreciate, and support the rights of the book burning naybob. Keep in mind, these are the same folks that rioted over a cartoon depiction of their esteeemed religious leader (I dare not say his name for fear of winding up on some immams death list, or worse, triggering an international uprising). As for the purpose of burning the book, that is naybob's to decide. The book burning was the excuse du jour and, according to the ABC News report, the UN forces fired warning shots in the air but not at the approaching mob. Until the cic, un leadership, and yes, General Petraeus, decide to hold these people accountable for their actions, our troops are in harms way. On this point we agree --get in it to win it or bring our troops home.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/3/2011 11:22:19 AM
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The preacher in Florida was exercising his freedom to protest. Whether that is by burning a book, or a flag, or a leader in effigy, that is an American freedom. It does not matter whether or not one agrees, only that one agrees that he has the right. To think otherwise is un-American. I know for political reasons people in positions of power and influence may feel it necessary to say otherwise. Many brave Americans have died to protect and preserve our freedoms. Our freedoms should not be held hostage to the beliefs of illiterate barbarians. It makes me sad to hear an American suggest that the preacher, participating in a lawful, non-violent protest in America is equal to a person that murders and beheads an innocent person. That is outrageous.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
WELL SAID
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Date:
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4/3/2011 11:31:28 AM
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Hearts and Minds...
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Date:
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4/3/2011 12:24:09 PM
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So Hound, you think that the pastor caused all those things to occur?
This guy is one powerful pastor.
You may have a tough go in Logic 101.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
A Moral Hypothesis
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Date:
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4/3/2011 12:35:28 PM
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One cannot toss a piece of raw meat into a pack of pit bulls and then claim he has nothing to do with the bloodbath that ensues. One cannot claim a right to commit an act of incitement and then not be responsible for the consequences intended or not. God is watching.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
A Moral Hypothesis
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Date:
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4/3/2011 12:59:29 PM
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Okay.
What about guns? Knives? Once produced. they sometimes end up killing people. Who is responsible for that? If you pursue anything far enough, you can relate it to any hypothesis.
Ever heard of the seven degrees of Kevin Bacon? Chaos theory?
And then you must deal with intent - you think the pastor intended these things to occur? Did he have a plan for worldwide response?
Do the Muslims have any active role in their response, or are they exempt from the constraints you impose on the pastor?
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
A Moral Hypothesis
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Date:
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4/3/2011 1:01:53 PM
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And if God is watching, he knows what will happen....it is no surprise, nor is it chance.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Constraints
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Date:
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4/3/2011 1:38:34 PM (updated 4/3/2011 1:39:29 PM)
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Oh! Did you assume my hypotheses were directed solely at the pastor? I DID choose my words carefully. What man is not guilty of the consequences of his own behavior?
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Constraints
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Date:
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4/3/2011 1:57:44 PM
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Nice dodge
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Constraints
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Date:
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4/3/2011 2:07:11 PM
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‘tis you that gets the sting of it!
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/3/2011 7:10:50 PM
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Funny, the preacher used the argument of his "freedom of speech".
We have a moral responsibility to act reasonably. We are at war in an Islamic nation. When you know that your actions will have severe international consequences, and potentially put our military in greater danger than they already are, I believe you have a moral obligation to behave in a reasonable manner. Burning a religious book, ANY religious book, is not a reasonable act. It's disrespectful, and worse, it incites an emotional response.
So although you may have a right to freedom of speech, you also have a moral responsibility to use it responsibly.
I think you'll find that most reasonable people think that this preacher acted irresponsibly. I don't think you'll find many people buying your logic.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/3/2011 7:56:43 PM
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Hound, why do people not get this? You and I are in agreement. One simply cannot “create” a controversy and then disavow the consequences. Okay… the pastor has an AMERICAN “right” to burn the Qu-aran. But, that does not absolve him of the horrendous aftermath in regions not cognizant of our Constitutional protections.
We, the Great Satan, have a PR problem. The Islamic extremists depend on our “moral” indignation to feed the flames of their agenda. This pastor has done exactly THEIR bidding. He has created an event which they can exploit for their purposes. This IS NOT about our 1st Amendment rights. This is about enflaming the world about THEIR intolerance of insults to Islam. Their culture can neither deflect criticism nor defend their violent expression. This idiot pastor falls right into their trap. Our press is naïve about their exploitation.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/3/2011 9:14:59 PM
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So whose morals are off- the US government for not stopping him (not like it was a surprise), the press for keeping it in the news for days on end, or the poor schlub pastor for being the puppet of the extremists? Or is it the extremists themselves? Where do you get on and off this wheel? Your self-evident morality may not play well in Libya, plus, it sounds a little snooty.......
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/3/2011 9:28:27 PM
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One act is sad and pathetic while the other involves in the tragic loss of life. There is no moral equivalence between the two acts. The real question is why so many people in the world act out in such a violent and morally unjustified way in reaction to something that in reality harms no one. We need to focus on why Muslims act the way they do.....that is the real travesty here.
If Muslims ignored this idiot preacher he would quickly fade into obscurity where he belongs.....instead we are discussing him just as he intends.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/3/2011 10:14:53 PM
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Why should Americans be expected to continuously walk on egg shells to appease the Muslim extremist (and apparently many not thought previously to be so extreme)? Why should an American president bow to foreign royalty and apologize for America? Why has this become the expected norm? America symbolizes freedom which is still just a dream for so many in this world. And freedom is exactly what America gave the Afghans; at least the opportunity for freedom. So again I ask, why should Americans give up their rights so as to please these Muslims abroad? Why can it not be that WE expect that THEY change? Is that not reasonable given the circumstances? I saw footage today of a mob in Afghanistan with a cross turned upside down while the protesters kicked it with their heels. But I am confident that this disparaging act toward Christians will not result in Christians rioting in American streets and attacking and killing innocent people. No, that won't happen. Unfortunately, what has happened is that many Americans freely accept subjugation of American freedoms in order to please our enemy.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/4/2011 8:39:01 AM
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You know, I'm really tired of people talking about the "walking around on eggshells". What I'm talking about is basic moral responsibility, which is sadly missing in this case. Actions have consequences.
When our troops are safely home, then if he wants to exercise is right to freedom of speech, then have at it. I don't agree with it, but then, our soldeiers won't be paying the price for him exercising his basic right.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Moral Responsibility
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Date:
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4/4/2011 11:37:08 AM
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I guess I am more focused on why a large number of people, in the name of a pseudo-religion, justify in their minds the senseless violence. You may be tired of the "walking around on egg shells" analogy but when you set aside your principals because of the concern about how someone is going to act in Afghanistan then they already rule over you.
What I find immensely ironic is we had pictures of our soldiers murdering innocent Afghani civilians and no riots or beheadings. But some obscure preacher in Florida burns a book and wham, riots ensue. The reason is they understand and accept these acts of violence. It is part of their pseudo-religion and part of their culture. They are 6th century savages. And us kowtowing to them and their savagery is exactly the wrong response.
You go ahead and give up your freedoms but I am not going to tell this idiot that he can't burn the koran or any other book.
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