| Name: |
lakngulf
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| Subject: |
Cash 4 Clunkers
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Date:
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10/30/2009 10:42:59 AM
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Cat, what are your thoughts on the cash for clunkers. I read where it cost the taxpayers $24,000 for every car sold under that program. How much did the dealer get for each car? I thought it was like 3400. If so where went the other 20 grand?
I think the new Health Plan will be called "Meds for Mediocrity"
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Cash 4 Clunkers
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Date:
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10/30/2009 11:34:10 AM
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Just my personal opinion. Here is fact>>> First off, the C4C program incentives varied in amount per vehicle, based on trade vs. vehicle purchased. Some were $3,500 and some $4,500. The government paid all monies (that I know of) to Car dealerships that PROPERLY documented and participated per guidelines setforth by the government. They provided a website that was easy for us to use for determining what amount each transaction would be. (Although it changed in amount from time to time for some reason, but that is where proper documentation comes in) We had to follow proper procedure and document the disabling of the vehicles, and they were picked up by a pre-designated junk yard.<<<End of facts as I know them.
My opinion>>>> I don't know how they come up a cost to the taxpayers of $2,400 per car. Thats way over my head. The program created traffic to dealer lots, but many cars/trucks were worth more than the clunker rebate, thus we did not use the program in many cases. I also believe that in a kinda sorta way it exploited the poor. Many clunker drivers/owners simply could not attain credit and were turned away by finance companies. Also, many commercial customers did take advantage of the program by trading in older work trucks worth next to nothing, and purchased new work trucks. We all know that the new trucks get better fuel mileage, and when a business can get $4,500 for a $1,500 truck they'll trade evertime. And last, the C4C incentives were compatible with other rebates and incentives, and that saved the consumer several thousand dollars in most cases.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Martini and Water_Watcher
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Date:
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10/31/2009 10:18:13 PM
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We all know that the new trucks get better fuel mileage, and when a business can get $4,500 for a $1,500 truck they'll trade everytime.
Sounds like this is what the Right wants....breaks for small business. Sounds good to me and I'm called a socialist among other names.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Who pays
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Date:
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10/31/2009 10:34:15 PM
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Hmmmm... $4500 for a $1500 truck... ummm, let's see... that's $3000 that comes from somewhere. OH! I got it, my daughter will pay for that $3000 in next years taxes.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Redistribution of wealth
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Date:
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10/31/2009 10:39:58 PM
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So... here we see how redistibution of wealth works. My Daughter and son-in-law work like dogs and pay high taxes. Those taxes go to pay for clunkers... what a GREAT concept!
Hah! Wait until you see what the decomissioning cost is for a Prius. Uh... don't worry... my grandchildren will pay for it.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Hold up!!!
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Date:
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10/31/2009 10:58:47 PM
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I was asked a question, and offered an answer. I was asked an opinion, and gave it as best I could. I never said the program was good, bad, right or wrong. Please don't pick words and sentences from my post to poke others. (They may get pizzed) You are entitled to make your own choices, but don't make them from my words of thought. Now, if you find yourself on the downwind side of a tow rope, call me.
Respectfully,
CAT
"Building Chicken Condo's one at the time"
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Yes MAJ
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Date:
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11/1/2009 7:55:08 AM
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and they will also be paying much much for the $8000 tax credit to first time home buyers which I have yet to see one of the rightwing crazies on this forum object to. As is often the case a bit of inconsistansy (bias/hypocrisy) is exposed.
PS: Sorry to have to tell you, but I'm still around and almost recovered from 2 weeks of vacation over-indulgence.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
rebate or tax credit
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Date:
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11/1/2009 8:07:04 AM
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You folks with blinders on think a rebate is "welfare" (Democrat idea) and a "tax credit" is a tax cut(Republican idea). Both are money out of somebody else's pocket. Your's, mine, our kid's and grandkid's. Don't get me wrong, as economic stimulus both were needed and both helped and I hope the home buyer credit is extended. After all, I currently have a $300,000/year client who is gladly claiming his $8000 on the $800,000 first home of my design.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
You are wrong ... as usual
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Date:
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11/2/2009 6:13:51 AM
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a tax cut is a return of tax payers money to spend as they wish ... rebates go to select people that has been decided by the government who qualifies and may even exceed what some paid in as taxes. But again it is government taking our money and they deciding which people benefit from it ... that is redistribution of wealth.
Take your blinders and rose colored glasses off.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
You are wrong ... as usual
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Date:
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11/2/2009 7:47:13 AM
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1/ Tax credits (1st time home buyers) go to people who do whatever the gov't requires to qualify for the credit. They can spend the resulting savings as they wish.
2/ Rebates (C4C) go to people who do whatever the gov't requires to qualify for the rebate. They can spend the money anyway they wish.
3/ Both the above examples mean that somewhere down the line (now or later) somebody else must make up for the 1/ tax revenue not received or 2/ tax revenue paid out.
4/ What part of 1,2,&3 above do you not understand?
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
You are wrong ... as usual
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Date:
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11/2/2009 7:48:56 AM
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WW, take your brown glasses off. Try to clean them a bit.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Useful
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Date:
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11/2/2009 8:56:19 AM
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The Architect’s 7:47 post was useful and well presented. I learned something from that post… helped me to sort through basic concepts. Were I opposed to his position, I might have been persuaded.
The Architect’s 7:48 post was not useful at all. It did not improve his esteem or credentials.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
MAJ
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Date:
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11/2/2009 7:01:24 PM
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Thanks for your comments on the 1st post and I'm sorry about that 2d post. It's just that sometime the devil gets hold of me and I just have to be as nasty, catty, and as big a horse's behind as WW (this is especially likely when responding to one WW typically asinine comments) ;-}
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Architects
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Date:
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11/2/2009 7:12:44 PM
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Having known… and worked for… a few architects in my life, I perceive that they suffer from a conflict between their left brain (the engineer side that got them through 5 years of an arduous undergraduate degree)... and their right brain which helps them to render the aesthetic side of engineering.
Now I ask you, Archy... are you one of those conservatives who vote liberal? (My father does this and he pisses and moans about what happens.) Do you vote for humanity the way it should be or in recognition of the way it is?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Archy, you are so out of touch
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Date:
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11/3/2009 6:03:31 AM
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You said EXACT what I was pointing out ... special government programs are targeted at a select demographic that the government decides they want to receive. That is redistribution of wealth if it is not available to all. Additionally they typically have little to no impact on stimulating the overall economy, so it is a waste of tax payers dollars.
Tax cuts go to those that paid the taxes ... yes those that paid more taxes typically get more back ... and why shouldn't they? Do I have to send you the beer example again? Additonally, money is spent across the economy lifting the overall economy and creating jobs.
Tell me how many jobs that Obama has "created" ... please count the same way we have always counted job creation.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
One other thing Archy
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Date:
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11/3/2009 6:09:22 AM
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When the government runs a special program and takes more government employees and administrative costs beyond the credit given and any limited benefit it would provide. As such, each dollar "redistributed" would costs tax payers say $1.40.
With a tax cut ... each $1 of tax payers money "returned" equals $1 that they paid in.
So aside from it having a more positive impact on the economy and creating more jobs ... it saves the tax payers money because they are not having to pay for another useless government employee. (No I am not saying all government employees are useless) ... but those hired to run government redistribution programs are useless and a waste of tax payers money.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
One other thing Archy
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Date:
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11/3/2009 6:09:58 AM
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When the government runs a special program and takes more government employees and administrative costs beyond the credit given and any limited benefit it would provide. As such, each dollar "redistributed" would costs tax payers say $1.40.
With a tax cut ... each $1 of tax payers money "returned" equals $1 that they paid in.
So aside from it having a more positive impact on the economy and creating more jobs ... it saves the tax payers money because they are not having to pay for another useless government employee. (No I am not saying all government employees are useless) ... but those hired to run government redistribution programs are useless and a waste of tax payers money.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
WW please
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Date:
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11/4/2009 12:11:39 AM
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read what I posted for a change. Tax credits (NOT TAX CUTS) are available only to those who do something dictated by the gov't in order to qualify. Rebates are available only to those who etc. etc.....In each case the lost or expended revenue must eventually be reimbursed by somebody. Get it?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
WW please
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Date:
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11/4/2009 6:29:34 AM
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whatever ... both are socialism ... tax cuts are not. Hold on to your socialist views ... I am still waiting for your update on the economy and your projections. Seems americans are waking up based on the two BIG governors losses. A message was sent ... you can not possibly spin it any other way. NJ is a huge liberal state that went to the GOP and VA went for Obama last year and Obama called Deeds his friend and put his arm around him and he lost by over 20 points. 4 in 10 people admited voting for Obama and said they were dissatisfied with the direction and were sending Obama a message with their vote.
So hang on and go down with the ship ... but it is sinking fast.
The GOP boat can save you ... it is not too late.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
What you are missing is
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Date:
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11/4/2009 6:31:54 AM
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that you are assuming it is "governments" money when you say it must be "replaced" .... No it does not. Cut government spending. You talk like government projects and programs are entitlements. They are not ... it is beyond governments role to redistribute wealth in any way.
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