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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 12:18:07 PM
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Today is MLK Day across our nation. For those interested in events going on in the late 50s and early 60s, do a web search on Myles Horton and the Highlander School in Monteagle, Tennessee. You will find that MLK, Rosa Parks, and others in the Civil Rights Movements were frequent visitors to this school.
I had always thought that Rosa Parks just happened to be on a bus in Montgomery and decided not to move to the back of the bus. This is how history is taught. Rosa Parks is mentioned as a visitor to the Highlander School.
How much influence did this school have on MLK and his views on the Vietnam War might be interesting. Questions might also surface as to the extent of this group on some of the Socialists in the present administration.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 12:33:21 PM
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Sounds like you are attempting to develop a conspircay theroy. But then you
are so far the Right that one has to wonder if you ever actually try and look at both sides of any issue.
It is no secret. Six months before her famous protest, Rosa Parks received a scholarship to attend a workshop on school integration for community leaders. It was held at the Highlander Folk School in Monteagle, Tennessee, and Rosa Parks spent several weeks there.
Just think, without her attending the school you might still be riding in the front.
Cheers.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Interesting question
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1/18/2010 1:03:19 PM
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Is it just revisionist history or was there a reason they obfuscated the fact that her act of civil disobedience was a planned event? Not sure why it mattered at the time or if it was even intentional or just worked out that way.
As for me, I look forward to the day we can have a true color blind society. I don't think that is going to happen until the civil rights prostitutes finally fade from the public scene or fade into obscurity.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 2:57:53 PM
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It's not what MLK did, or what Rosa Parks did specifically. It's about giving courage to a people to stand up for their rights. It would not have happened at that time without the leaders who could give voice, but it still would have happened.
Lots of people don't like affirmative action, but back in the early days, if the US had not implemented affirmative action, nothing would have changed.
We've come a long way. It's a good day to remember where we have been and where we might go, as a society, in the future.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 3:16:27 PM
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Hound, I am not sure its totally accurate to say that nothing would have happened had affirmative action not been implemented. There is no doubt that passage of the Civil Rights Act didn't result in a magic wand being waved and I think that people began to oppose affirmative action when LBJ specifically changed the concept from equal rights to equal outcome, which at its core required discrimination in the opposite direction. If you look at the improvement in the standard of living of blacks say from the turn of the century to 1960 and 1960 and beyond you will see that most of the advances predated the CRA. I believe that much of the slowdown was due to the entitlement mentality that took hold after LBJ's Great Society programs and have read some interesting economics arguments that support that belief. Thomas Sowell has written extensively on this issue as has Walter Williams.
Couple of interesting facts that get very little notice.
MLK was a Republican as were most blacks prior to the Great Society of LBJ.
JFK voted against the Civil Rights Act of 1957 as did almost all Democrats.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 5:23:59 PM
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It appears that Kennedy's switch on civil rights occurred when he realized that he needed the black vote to defeat Nixon in 1960.
Good point on King. Both his father and grandfather were registered Republicans. I guess the Republicans gave up the black vote for the white southern vote.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 5:56:39 PM
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It doesn't surprise me that JFK voted against equal rights in the 50's. There wasn't enough pressure at the time to make it a priority. You won't find me singing the praises of JFK.
Why do you suppose that MLK was a Republican, unless it was that was the prevailing persuasion in his family? Back in the day, people were more inclined to listen to their parents and grandparents in voting.
There was some backlash about affirmative action, but I still think more positive came out of it than negative. There were, no doubt, instances where the "entitlement mentality" kicked in (I have dealt with it in the course of my career). But, I have also seen black people who, when given an opportunity, worked harder than anyone else.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 5:56:49 PM
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GF
It's really interesting that you can claim that I have far to the right. Look in the mirror and you will see "left,left,left".
Just learn to address the issues.
No where in my post did you hear anything about a conspiracy theory or an opposition to civil rights. A lot of white families today, including mine, is made up of multiracial children, nieces, etc.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 6:25:38 PM
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GF
You need to define what you mean by "scholarship". I doubt that this was a three-week conference on how to make friends and influence people. This was a conference with very high security. In today’s terminology, you might say that it had limited transparency. People from the surrounding area were not invited.
Rosa parks attended a conference along with MLK and many others involved in Civil Rights along with others that had sympathies for communism. My home was about 25l miles from this school.
Civil rights were not the only subject discussed during these sessions. Highlander school was not even close to the Preparatory schools in that area (St. Andrews and Sewage).
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 6:28:51 PM
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St Andrews and Sewanee. Sorry for the misspelling.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 7:19:36 PM
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Your timing is a little off on that one. It wasn't so much the Southern Strategy because a great many of the segregationists stayed with the Dems (Robert Byrd and Fritz Hollings to name a few). Again, it was a relatively quick process as the Great Society consumed their souls. Anyway, see the attached. Yes I know its from Human Events so you might want to dismiss it out of hand but its still worth reading for the factual stuff.
URL: http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=16500
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Myles Horton
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Date:
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1/18/2010 7:28:44 PM
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I didn't mention it to slam JFK but the fact is his administration, including Bobby Kennedy, did not support or at least were not interested in civil rights for their moral reasons.
See the post below to GF for a great explanation of why blacks were overwhelmingly Republican and for good reason. Recall that Lincoln was a Republican, Republicans overwhelmingly supported the civil rights movement, etc. Their slavish (and I mean slavish) relationship with the Dem party has been nothing but negative for the black community with the exception of some blacks who financially benefit at the expense of their broader community (the people I call poverty pimps).
As to affirmative action, I think its an insult to blacks and more importantly every single hard working successful black person carries the stain of people thinking they only got where they are because of affirmative action and not due to their own efforts. To me that is the saddest legacy of affirmative action and reason alone to end it.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 7:54:11 PM
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It may well shock you but I do receive Human Events in my email. Also, mailings from Newt, Laura Ingram, and your Queen Bee... Annie C.
I saw first hand affirmative action and looked at it as providing an opportunity to those who would not have received it no matter how hard they tried. It can never be denied that many large corprations closed their doors for management positions to both minorities and woman. The glass ceiling was unbreakable until recently. Affirmative action gave many the opportunity to fast rack. Sadly, I had to release some and a few resulted in discrimination suits claiming they werw released due to their color rather than incompetence.
I also saw the result of the what I consider to be the white man's response to affirmative action, namely, the Peter Principle result in chaos, loss of business, and lower employee morale.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 8:42:27 PM
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Well I have to say I am surprised that you read Human Events and some of the others. Who is Annie C.? My point about affirmative action is probably similar to my beliefs about unions. At one time it may have its place and was necessary but it outlasted its usefulness and became more of an impediment than a help or was distorted by those seeking personal gain versus a true desire to help others. Regardless of the good intentions, like most liberal policies, the reality and the unintended consequences quickly come to outstrip the benefits. It is indeed a sad legacy of affirmative action that an independently successful black person will always carry the stigma that they didn't really deserve what they have, even if they do.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
C= Coulter
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Date:
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1/18/2010 9:09:02 PM
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 9:16:52 PM
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I agree that unions may well have served their purpose. Historically, unions fought for employer paid pensions and group insurance with employer contributions. This was enjoyed by non union employees as well without having to walk a picket line. Conservatives with company benefits have the union movement to thank for them.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 9:48:35 PM
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I don't think so and besides, a great many union members are conservative. It's just the labor leaders that are almost 100% an arm of the Dem party.
Unions are not responsible for employers providing health insurance to their employees. In fact a good many of our employer-provided benefits came about because of wage and price controls by the government during WWII they looked for other ways to be more competitive and attract/keep employees, especially with a scarce labor pool because of the number of men in the military. Then the government once again stepped in and forced employers that voluntarily provided health insurance to keep the programs, all to benefit union members. So it was an employer-inspired idea (the FREE MARKETS!!) that brought about their providing health insurance to employees followed by the distortion of that idea by government at the point of the gun on behalf of special interest groups. Your idea that unions are responsible for my having to provide health insurance to my employees is about as off the mark as Hillary saying Mary and Joseph were homeless when she gave birth to Christ.
Unions may be responsible for the expansion of these benefits but at the expense of sound business judgment thereby causing the monstrous underfunded liabilities at companies like Government Motors.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
C= Coulter
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Date:
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1/18/2010 9:49:45 PM
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Gotcha....don't read her much these days but did enjoy watching her skewer the Rev Al on TV about the double standard and hypocrisy on the race issue.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/18/2010 10:19:03 PM
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So, any person who did not belong to a union or walk a picket line did nothing to deserve their benefits. Please tell me who kept the plants running and while the unions were on the picket line. Do you believe that union members only are responsible for technological advances that reduced mfg. cost, increased yields, and increased market share.
Does the UAW's union have any responsibility for the demise of GM and Chrysler? Conservative should kneel at the union hall and be thankful that Jimmy Hoffa, John L. Lewis, and Walter Reuther carried the banner so that the poor conservatives could be paid.
I know a little bit about unions since I was raised in Tennessee where the UMW reigned. Because of union corruption, the miners in that area went non union and worked for years without labor interruptions and earned good pay.
During the early years, the UAW's main thrust was the royalty paid by the company on every ton of coal. Hospitals were built and miner welfare was a priority.
Then, greed took over. The welfare of the miners was secondary. I suspect that a similar attitude existed within the UAW, ICWU, and the Teamsters. Is this why membership is at an all time low?
A similar movement today is in progress to remove the corruption in our government. Zero transparency, closed door meetings, and a one party system is not healthy for this country. Change is coming.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/19/2010 7:53:10 AM
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I just don't think that is true. In the beginning, there may be that suspicion, but once someone proves themselves, I don't think they carry any stigma at all.
And believe me, I lived through something very similar, being a woman. Some doors were opened to me because of affirmative action, but they didn't keep me going forward -- my work did that.
Yes, there were some that tried to use affirmative action to force the issue, and they may have won one battle, but it didn't serve them in the end.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Martini
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Date:
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1/19/2010 8:34:11 AM
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If you don't think its true just look at some of the statements by the left about prominent blacks such as Clarence Thomas. Believe me, I have a number of black friends and my niece's husband that have complained about this and find it more repugnant than outright racism because it comes from supposedly enlightened people. I agree that hard work is the key once you get the opportunity but frankly it is the stigma that sticks in their craw regardless of their personal circumstances.
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