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Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 11:25:13 AM

WSMS - Gilligan had a good story to tell about lake/boater courtesy.

WSMS - 3 (negative experience stories)
JAW - 2 (positive experience stories)

I'm catching up.

Name:	Ulysses E. McGill -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 11:30:57 AM

I've had nothing but good experiences when needing help over the years. I have also helped others when help is needed.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 11:46:37 AM

You left out partygirl. I think she expressed a bad experience unless just floating along with lakefun without interrruption was considered a pleasant experience for her.

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 12:52:54 PM

WSMS might beat you on a technicality. His argument (and mine as well) is that in the pre-cruiser days, boats would never pass another boat in distress; the key word is "never." The fact that it has happened (and it has; there is no argument there) in the post-cruiser days is in indicator that something has changed.

The debatable quetion is: exactly what has changed? It's a debate that can't be won (by either "side"), since all of the "answers" are really opinions.

One question: it would seem that any GOOD experiences in the pre-cruiser days would count towards WSMS, and any bad experiences in those days would count towards you. So put me down for no bad experiences, and too many good ones to remember. Sorry! :-)

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	longtimer
Date:	4/29/2006 2:43:48 PM

You have my phone number so I wish you would call me. I have something FUNNY to tell you. Can't post it on the Forum or e-mail it to you because I want to HEAR your reaction to this. You are not going to believe what I have to say.

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 2:57:16 PM

Name: longtimer The author of this post is registered as a member -
Subject: Uh-uh-oh
Date: 4/29/2006 12:52:54 PM

"WSMS might beat you on a technicality. His argument (and mine as well) is that in the pre-cruiser days, boats would never pass another boat in distress; the key word is "never." The fact that it has happened (and it has; there is no argument there) in the post-cruiser days is in indicator that something has changed."

Yeah, but you can't measure this. Therefore, it's moot to try to debate this. By asking WSMS to gather the best info he could, it would show this is a no-win argument. He can't prove it. I can't win it either. I was pointing out the obvious...which you got and I haven't heard from WSMS, so I suppose he has, too.

"The debatable quetion is: exactly what has changed? It's a debate that can't be won (by either "side"), since all of the "answers" are really opinions."

Well, not really opinions. He could have gone out and gathered tons of examples, but I could have, too. So it would have been tit for tat.

"One question: it would seem that any GOOD experiences in the pre-cruiser days would count towards WSMS, and any bad experiences in those days would count towards you. So put me down for no bad experiences, and too many good ones to remember. Sorry! :-)"

Why would the bad experiences count toward me? I wasn't arguing there weren't any bad experiences, was I? I thought I was just pointing out the GOOD in the today's current situation. Why would I have to be on the "bad" side in the past? I didn't say anything had changed......just I still CONTINUED to see boat courtesy. You can't put words in my mouth. WSMS is the one who said things had changed....NOT ME. I am saying I see boat courtesy today.

But if you want to get really technical, I have only owned since 2001. So what do I know, really? I just see good. But that still doesn't mean he has a sound argument just because he has owned longer than I. He can have an opinion. But it's not fact until he can prove it. That's all I was saying: PROVE IT.

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	longtimer, I am still waiting!
Date:	4/29/2006 5:59:14 PM

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	longtimer You must
Date:	4/29/2006 8:38:08 PM

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-uh-oh
Date:	4/29/2006 11:20:52 PM

I find it funny that you said this: "You can't put words in my mouth." And then, you followed it with this: "WSMS is the one who said things had changed....NOT ME. I am saying I see boat courtesy today."

What did you do? You put words in the mouth of WSMS! I read the posts, and yes, he said things have changed. But with the statement "I am saying I see boat courtesy today," you are implying that he said that there is NO boater courtesy anymore. No, he did not, and neither did I! There is LESS but "less" is not the same as "none." And that was the root of his arguement: that ther is LESS boater courtesy today than there was in the pre-cruiser days. He never said "there is NO boater courtesy anymore;" you just pretended that he did.

The scary thing is, you think no one will notice that. Even scarier: you might be right; ignorance is very blinding.

I'm not surprised he hasn't continued his "debate" with you. He predicted that someone would twist his words to make it seem that he was saying things that he wasn't, and sure enough, that's just what you did.

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Give it up.
Date:	4/29/2006 11:28:36 PM

Just because you're stupid enough to think I'll call you does not mean that I'm stupid enough to do so.

I know you're fuming because you now know how much I know about you, and it irks you to tears that I found all of that out without resorting to childish parlor games like "Call me or you're a loser!" (What do you do when you're not playing this little game? Play "ring and run?" Call up strangers and ask if they have Prince Albert in a can?)

If you want to talk so bad, pick up the phone and give me a call. What? You don't know my phone number? And yet, I know yours. And if I found yours, you should be able to find mine.

So find it, and call me. I'll be waiting. But, I won't be holding my breath; if I did that, I'd be dead and buried before I got that call.

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	Uh-uh-oh
Date:	4/30/2006 10:26:06 AM

Name: longtimer The author of this post is registered as a member -
Subject: Uh-uh-oh
Date: 4/29/2006 11:20:52 PM

I find it funny that you said this: "You can't put words in my mouth." And then, you followed it with this: "WSMS is the one who said things had changed....NOT ME. I am saying I see boat courtesy today."

What did you do? You put words in the mouth of WSMS! I read the posts, and yes, he said things have changed.++++++

+++++Excuse me, what did you just say? I say that WSMS says things have changed, you say I put words in his mouth (that can't be true! HORRORS!), and then you say that he said it? WT....?

But with the statement "I am saying I see boat courtesy today," you are implying that he said that there is NO boater courtesy anymore.^^^^^^

Name: WSMS The author of this post is registered as a member -
Subject: There was a time...
Date: 4/26/2006 2:18:08 AM

when every boat you saw would have rushed to help.

^^^^^So, it used to be EVERY boat. So, now it's not? (If it's not, why didn't he say so? Why not say,"almost every" ?)***** The opposite of EVERY (or ALL) is NONE. Would you agree to that?

Sorry, longtimer. I was using a high level thinking skill, called INFERENCES.

****Oh, oh, oh...I get it! WSMS was exaggerating. *****

(like so many who want to prove a point and use figures of speech and not facts.)

No, he did not, and neither did I! There is LESS but "less" is not the same as "none." @@@@@@

@@@@ You got that right. See above.

And that was the root of his arguement: that ther is LESS boater courtesy today than there was in the pre-cruiser days. He never said "there is NO boater courtesy anymore;" you just pretended that he did. %%%%%

%%%%% See above.

The scary thing is, you think no one will notice that. Even scarier: you might be right; ignorance is very blinding. ======

===== They'll notice it now. Ignorance? See above.

I'm not surprised he hasn't continued his "debate" with you. He predicted that someone would twist his words to make it seem that he was saying things that he wasn't, and sure enough, that's just what you did.>>>>>

>>>>>>Ya'll must be friends. Tell him to come back. I'll play nicely, if he won't exaggerate his claims. JAW

Long - I hope you see this all in fun. A debate on words. If you can't see it that way, you are WAAAAAAAAAAAAAYYYYYYY too serious.
This is giving me something to do while hubby is deep sea fishing this weekend in Destin. I am running the house by myself. Thanks for the entertainment. (I did not say INFOtainment....)

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	I am not fuming nor
Date:	4/30/2006 10:58:37 AM

am I stupid and childish. Like the name calling though. I really did have something to tell you that was really funny. But, it doesn't matter now.

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	Babygirl
Date:	4/30/2006 11:25:23 AM

I've met you. You are not a hothead, stupid, or childish.

You are easygoing, clever, and fun.

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks JAW!!!!
Date:	4/30/2006 12:10:31 PM

Looking forward to seeing you again at the next gathering on the island.

Name:	WSMS -	Reply
Subject:	Why oh why...
Date:	4/30/2006 1:12:19 PM

would you make such ignorant inferences?

"^^^^^So, it used to be EVERY boat. So, now it's not? (If it's not, why didn't he say so? Why not say,"almost every" ?)***** The opposite of EVERY (or ALL) is NONE. Would you agree to that?

Sorry, longtimer. I was using a high level thinking skill, called INFERENCES."

Yes, the exact opposite of "every" is "none". But not every change results in an exact opposite. For example: you have a white house. You decide to paint it. So now, you have a black house, right? Because the color of your house changed, and the opposite of "white" is "black", and using your logic, your house must now be black. It cannot be any other color, because there is no middle ground; there are no degrees of change.

Or, another example: it's 12:00 noon. Then the clock's minute hand moves forward. Now, it's 12:00 midnight, right? Because the time has changed, and by Jaw's Rules, whenever change occurs, it's a change to the exact opposite. The opposite of "noon" is "midnight," so it must be midnight, right?

I hope you don't really believe your own argument; I would like to think that the brains of educators function at a somewhat higher level than the general population.

I will give you credit for one thing, though: I now have a much deeper understanding of the inadequacies of the educational system in the US. I used to wonder how our schools could be doing such an incredibly poor job of educating our children; I'm wondering no more. As the old saying goes, a fish rots from the head down...

Name:	WSMS -	Reply
Subject:	Oh please.
Date:	4/30/2006 1:22:53 PM

Don't you have something better than the old "I really did have something to tell you but now I'm not!" ploy? Usually by the time one graduates-- from second grade-- they have realized the futility of such an argument on adults.

It is painfully obvious that if you were any poutier, you would be stepping on your lower lip.

While I'm here, let me guess your next post: "WSMS, I have something really important to tell you; send me your name, address, phone number, social security number, forum password and credit card number, and I'll tell you! And it's REAL important and REAL funny too! Oh, and send all of that stuff for longtimer too."

Sheesh. There might be a lot of people on this forum that you can outsmart, but they-- like you-- are playing in the minor leagues. If you want to beat longtimer, you're going to have to step up to the majors. IF he will let you, which I doubt. (Though he might; I get the sense that he is enjoying toying with you.)

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	If I had you in class...
Date:	4/30/2006 1:51:06 PM

Name: WSMS The author of this post is registered as a member -
Subject: Why oh why...
Date: 4/30/2006 1:12:19 PM

"would you make such ignorant inferences?

I hope you don't really believe your own argument; I would like to think that the brains of educators function at a somewhat higher level than the general population."

I would be happy I got you thinking. My students can argue with me about subject matter and I wouldn't take offense. That's my job to make them think critically. My students don't have to agree with me. Remember I don't teach Math (exact), I teach English. There are no right or wrong answers.

Like Robert Frost said about his poem, "The Road Less Travelled" :

critics were trying to decipher this poem and came up with all kind of analogies, parallel life experiences, deeper meanings, etc.

This is what Frost said about it: "I just wrote a poem."

WSMS - I love playing Devil's Advocate. So you aren't smart/mature enough to know that I was setting this up to get you thinking with sound reasoning arguments? I wanted to see where you would go with this. I have waiting to hear from you...or longtimer...it doesn't matter. You guys will with a wall.

Gee, that's a shame that you've been "had" from a brainless, ignorant teacher.

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	If I had you in class...
Date:	4/30/2006 1:52:54 PM

woops - you will ARGUE with a wall.

typo.

Tag - you're it.

Name:	babygirl -	Reply
Subject:	Actually,
Date:	4/30/2006 3:10:36 PM

I don't really care who you are!!!! However, I do have a question for you. Are you and longtimer related or one in the same???? Your post are so much alike that it makes us wonder. As far as pouting, you are totally wrong. Games, like the one's on this Forum, can be entertaining. No war here. If you must know, I was going to tell longtimer that I actually agreeded with something he posted yesterday. I thought that was funny because I have never agreed to anything he said before. Also, I read my e-mails from him again. In one of them, he stated that if he had my number he would call. Guess he changed his mind.

Name:	JMSD -	Reply
Subject:	Oh please.
Date:	4/30/2006 4:54:02 PM

is exactly right! I find it so ironic that whenever there is anything being directed at longtimer, that you, WSMS, are the first to come to his/her defense? Why is that? Enquiring minds would like to know. I believe that both you and longtimer are intelligent people but seeming as though your responses to everything resemble each other so closely, that leaves one to wonder......how many aliases does one person need to make his/her point? Is one not enough??????

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	If I had you in class...
Date:	4/30/2006 5:10:36 PM

I belive that both the alias`s mite be BAJ.

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	Jim
Date:	4/30/2006 6:09:54 PM

I can only guess what BAJ stands for....and it isn't printable.

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	Not exactly...
Date:	5/1/2006 1:36:09 AM

"BAJ" was the alias used by Bailey Jones, who used to write the "Growing Up" column for Lake Martin Living. (You can find some of his stuff on the internet at www.savelakemartin.com/growingup.htm; the reason WHY he no longer writes for them is especially interesting.) He also used to post here quite a bit, up until a couple of years ago. I ran into him last year and asked him why he didn't post anymore; I don't remember his exact words, but they were something like "because anything that makes me feel bad about the lake can't be good."

He didn't say it was because of the abuse he used to take on the Forum, but that's why I would have quit posting here. Jim, in particular, seemed to make a point of responding to every BAJ post with a barnyard-level insult; often, he would make those insulting posts in posts that had nothing to do with BAJ, which is why you sometimes see me make note of his "obsession."

Just for fun, I went back and looked at some of those old posts; here are some links that you can check out, if you want to see what lakemartin.com was like in the "olden days." (Back then, Jim was posting as JIMBOB, JIMMY, JIMBO, and JIM, to name a few; as far as I know, he was always using some derivation of "JIM.")

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/show.asp?id=3805&fid=1&tid=3787&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=13620&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=13710&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/show.asp?id=13803&fid=1&tid=13710&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=13986&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=15018&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=16519&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=17055&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=17785&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=18270&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/show.asp?id=18666&fid=1&tid=18663&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/thread.asp?tid=20248&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/show.asp?id=25698&fid=1&tid=25664&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/search.asp?action=search&fid=1&SiteID=AL001

http://www.uswater.info/Forum/show.asp?id=3805&fid=1&tid=3787&SiteID=AL001

URL: SaveLakeMartin

Name:	jawjagal -	Reply
Subject:	longtimer - over here!
Date:	5/1/2006 8:03:52 AM

Do you suppose it could have been other negativity on here, too? Not necessarily personal to him, but what he would have read by bashers about LM?

It is horrible on here at times. The people I talk to are disappointed. I mean it's one thing to jokingly stir the pot ( I think you, WSMS, and I did - which was about NOTHING except points on how to support a topic or argument - in other words - and IDEA) but another when it comes to calling REAL people names, putting people down by their Lake Martin life style choices, you know....the real everyday stuff that matters.

You KNOW during the winter we didn't have nearly this much animosity written here. Most of us were jokingly passing the time and being brotherly (sisterly.) We know what the issue was to change that....and it got ugly. Which shows us at our worst (me included with stirring the pot on our past silly posts.)

So, maybe, since you don't know for sure, it just wasn't all personal toward BAJ but that he saw the in-fighting of how each person views 'HIS/HER' opinion on how the lake should be and everyone will always have a different point of view on that matter.

Have a good day. I hit reality again today (my hubby was out of town for the weekend and I had tons of time to play) with my regular life. See you around.

Name:	longtimer -	Reply
Subject:	longtimer - over here!
Date:	5/2/2006 12:34:23 AM

Could it be? Maybe; all I know is what he told me, and what I gathered from reading his posts over the years. If you want to read something else into those words that's your choice; I'd be real careful about stating something as fact when it's really nothing more than an uninformed opinion, though.

There is an option you might try, though, if you want to hear from a more direct source than me-- you could email him and ask him yourself. (You're a smart girl, so figuring out his email address shouldn't be a problem; if you can't find it on this site, there are about a half-dozen out there where it's out there for the world to see.)

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	What really happenend to BAJ
Date:	5/2/2006 8:55:13 AM

Bailey posted on here using the moniker BAJ. Everyone knew who he was and what he stood for due to his spot in the public eye. But like most of us, he enjoyed posting anonymously also. He had another very active moniker (which I will not reveal) also. Then one fateful day he forgot to change his moniker before posting and blew his anonymity. I am sure this was somewhat embarrising to him ( I felt bad for him when I read it , and was somewhat shocked that they were one in the same person). Anyway, the moniker BAJ has not appeared since then. I am sure that he still reads and probably posts here too. I have never met him, but have read his essays for years.

Anonymity is at the foundation of forums such as these. That is why you register with an email, not name and address. Some may not agre with multiple aliases, but the forum manager wanted too, he could eliminate the option. He doesn't because it is the 'pot stirrers' that make the forum interesting. Interesting means clicks, clicks mean dollars to him. Do you really think that more than a handfull of folks care what you guys do on islands on the weekends? NO, we are all doing the same things, but in different places. Some of you have chosen lately to give up anonymity here. That is fine. Some have not. That is fine also. But just because you choose to go public doesn't mean you are 'better' than others or have more right to post here than anyone else. Feb has a rant above about multiple alaises. GET OVER IT. It has always happened and will always happen.

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	What really happenend to BAJ
Date:	5/2/2006 1:03:18 PM

Where do you personally stand or do you have an opinion on using multipe aliases? I implore you to answer that single question somewere in your response. Do you do it?

I think I may agree with you Long Time Laker in some aspects. I liked BAJ. Bought his book and thought it rather good. I also enjoyed and read his various articles mostly reprints from his book in Lake Martin Living Magazine. Sort of took be back to the Lake everytime I read his articles.

I do not recall BAJ ever changing his alias or trying to deceive anyone on the Forum. I don't take him for being that insecure. Maybe I am wrong, but I have more respect for him than those type immature games.

I also agree with you that, unless you choose to, it is not necessary to reveal who you are in the open. That is why we all have an alias on the Forum. Over the years many of us have got to know each other from private email and have made friends. It is a personal decision.

You refer to it as feb's rant, and I agree. Keeping your identity secret on the Forum is a given, but to use that guise to change an identity is basically taken advantage of a loop hole to deceive the regulars and good people on the Forum.

Hope you will state it. Bottomline: Where do you stand on the use of multiple aliases on the Forum. Please state you opinion up front. Hope it is your single alias doing so.

If you do not answer this simple question, then for what little it is worth you have lost my respect. A particular handle does not give you repect only the content of your post. I guess someone could grab the the handle "Eternal Laker". Does a handle give you more credit on the Forum?

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	What really happenend to BAJ
Date:	5/2/2006 1:28:18 PM

The other Alias was Anon Y Mous, You can find it under the BAJ search in the noise ordinance thread back in 2004. TIVO caught him, under the post OOPS.

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	What really happenend to BAJ
Date:	5/2/2006 3:12:52 PM

Better yet, go to search, TIVO,OOPS, AUG,04.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Leave it to JIM....
Date:	5/3/2006 7:15:56 AM

..... to bust out BAJ by his 'other' name.

Feb, I have no desire to cave in to your demands to know my opinion on multiples alaises. As for all the other drivel in your posts all I can say is.... what? Eternal Laker? Where does that come from? I have NEVER claimed any greater love or passion for the lake than anyone else. I chose LifeTime Laker cuz it described me. I was born in February and camped at Wind Creek in July, and EVERY July after that till I was 12. Then my Dad bought a peice of Heaven on earth :)

You have your opinion, I have mine. If changes aliases gets someone to 'stir the puddin' then 'bling it on'. I like my puddin stirred, not shaken....lol

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	Leave it to JIM....
Date:	5/3/2006 5:25:18 PM

I hope that you and your Dad are still enjoying it together.

Name:	JIM -	Reply
Subject:	Leave it to JIM....
Date:	5/5/2006 6:31:39 PM

No responce ,can only mean one thing.

Name:	LifeTime Laker -	Reply
Subject:	Leave it to JIM....
Date:	5/9/2006 7:23:34 AM

No, Dad passed away in 93. I now have my own peice of heaven. I bought in 2000, just before the big run-up in prices!!!

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