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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Global Warming??
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Date:
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11/23/2009 2:31:27 PM
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Is anyone else catching the breaking news that the scam of GW is seemingly coming unraveled at warp speed? Seems that some GW Scientist sites have been hacked in the UK and dozens and dozens of emails apparently showing outright fraud and attempts to change actual weather data have been disclosed along with a concerted effort to avoid Freedom of Information type Acts in the UK? Al Gore may have to down size that mansion if this is true?!
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Global Warming??
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Date:
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11/23/2009 4:39:00 PM
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I lived in Tennessee when AL Gore was running for president. He is from Tennessee… uh… his distinguished family was from Tennessee. Mr. Gore possess neither the gentility nor the statesmanship of his father. His father was a true southern democrat (akin to the current governor of Tennessee, for whom I voted). Mr. Gore’s ethics not withstanding, he does not have the ability to formulate reasonable debate.
In Gore v Bush presidential election, he crowed that he grew up on a farm in Tennessee. The voters replied, “Say what!” Mr. Gore came nowhere near carrying his professed home state in the election.
That said, like Bernie Madoff, you can be sure that Mr. Gore has shaved off a sizeable stash and sequestered it in a secret account somewhere. This, just in case he gets caught with his pants around his ankles. He’ll want to survive the national wake-up where the folks find out they’ve been fleeced.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Global Warming??
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Date:
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11/23/2009 4:40:29 PM
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Many conservatives have contended for many years that global warming is one of the greatest hoaxes of modern times. This confirming evidence to support that claim will be spun by the hoaxers as illegally posted by a homophobic, right-wing whistleblower, or taken out of context if it is legal, or a parody created by Rush Limbaugh, or maybe just a part of the Sarah Palin fly-over country book tour. Like global warming, liberalism is a lie...adherance to the truth would put it on the endangered species list!
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/23/2009 5:15:00 PM
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au67 states, "Many conservatives have contended for many years that global warming is one of the greatest hoaxes of modern times."
Please be sure to include scientists in the contention.
The truth (inconvenient?) is that there IS NOT a consensus among scientists that there is anthropogenic global warming (AGW). As a scientist (geophysicist and registered professional geologist in Tennessee and Alabama), I DEMAND that the scientific method, as introduced in junior high science classes, be allowed to function in the AGW debate. This process requires that a theory be debated in the open, among peers... and that other scientists have access to the supporting data and methods. Data must be both valid and reliable, and results must be reproducible. To date, this has not happened. I’m sure, from the recent exposure via the hacked emails, that we all understand why we “deniers” had to be kept from the data and models.
There IS a consensus among scientists that there is global climate change. The Earth presents millions of years of evidence to support cyclical changes in global climate. For example, the Chesapeake Bay disappears and reappears as the Atlantic Ocean transgresses and regresses with the cycles between ice and tropical global climate swings.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/23/2009 6:14:32 PM
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The debate often gets confused as to the real issue, anthropogenic global warming. In fact, the debate over man's contribution to changes in global climates is not settled. Recently, over 30,000 scientists (myself included) signed a petition indicating that voiced science based skepticism about man's influence on global climates.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/23/2009 7:07:27 PM
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If, in open scientific (as opposed to political) debate the concept of AGW is successfully defended and independently verified, I will subscribe to a well conceived plan to mitigate the condition. Way back in high school chemistry I learned about a couple of very important, well known characteristics of CO2 which cause me to be very suspect that the gas in anyway a cause of global warming.
BUT, I reserve the right to be smarter today than I was yesterday. Debate me; give me your data and your models. If the data and model(s) are valid and reliable, and my colleagues and I can independently recreate your experiment… confirm your hypothesis… I will join the AGW team.
Why do I hear the chirping of crickets?
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Call Me on It!
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Date:
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11/23/2009 8:34:51 PM
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On this forum, I have repeatedly used the Chesapeake Bay as an example of the cyclical nature of global climate change. No one has challenged me on this. I stand ready to defend. YOU have a RIGHT to say that my hypothesis is whooee (horse hockey). Then you say, “What proof have you? Give me your data. Cite your sources. Produce your evidence.”
If I am on solid ground with my thesis, I start laying it on the line. I publish my work and give you a copy of it and the supporting data. I ask another scientist to go off, by himself and perform an independent, abbreviated “control” study (to keep me from embarrassing myself). I develop my PowerPoint presentation and invite you to listen. When I am finished presenting my case, you and your colleagues start asking questions… probing my work for holes… demanding answers for any shaky propositions. Then, you list questions that we can’t agree on. I go back and research those answers. I deliver. (This can, of course, be an iterative process… any of you who have defended a thesis KNOW what I am talking about here). Eventually… hopefully sooner than later… you either say, “Nice try, Bubba” or you validate my work.
If my thesis is either unsustainable or contrived, I dread that you will debate me. I avoid the occasion. If my real (maybe egregious) intentions are such that exposure to sunshine would result in immediate censure… and subsequent ruin, then I would persistently avoid debate.
What do we have here? Do you hear a bell ringing? Would you debate me on the Chesapeake Bay thing? Would you debate me on anthropogenic global warming?
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Debate You? Nawww......
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Date:
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11/24/2009 8:09:09 AM
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They can't handle the truth.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/24/2009 8:45:34 AM
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Because a debate on the merits of AGW is wanting. The proponents have hitched their financial horses to this concept and do not want honest, scientifically based discussion in any form or fashion. They know in their hearts the truth and they cannot take the risk. It is all a function of politicized science, which should be an oxymoron but sadly is not in this case.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/24/2009 3:53:43 PM
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A. There is irrefutable proof that the Earth’s climate has been vacillating, globally, for hundreds of millions of years. At various times throughout history, the land that is now New York City, Miami, Long Island, Cape Hatteras, Cape Cod …and just for grins… Suffolk, Virginia has been alternately high and dry, or completely submerged.
B. There was farming going on in Greenland before Columbus left Hispania.
C. The climate is either warming or cooling globally, or about to change direction during my chronologically insignificant lifetime. Even given that the current hysteria is true, if I owned an ocean-front condo in Orange Beach Alabama, I would be dead before sea level inconveniently reached my patio.
D. There are well over a hundred models for predicting global climate change and none of them agree. (Note: I am a geophysicist, “give me some data and tell me what you want to prove… I can do it.”) We cannot accurately predict the weather four days from now, how can we predict the climate forty years hence? As a geophysicist, I am used to my data, calculations, and results being poured over by quality assurance specialists, engineers, and scientists (peers). The global warming data should be so subjected.
E. Al Gore is about to do for us what Rachel Carson did for the children of Africa. Let’s not go blindly down that road again. Rachel Carson’s works were widely believed and resulted in the precipitous withdrawal of a pesticide (DDT) which was holding malaria at bay in Africa. The (single set of) data she used was later proven to be faulty. Millions of children have since died of malaria(The law of unintended consequences).
F. It is my educated observation that cyclical fluctuations in solar activity, frequency of volcanic eruptions, and perturbation of the Earth’s axis have significantly more to do with global warming than CO2 produced by mankind. I have participated in a control study on the climatic effects of solar cycles. If you are interested in a journey down this route start by Googling the “Maunder Minimum.”
G. Despite what you are being told, many more scientists are skeptical, or in the least have reservations, about the human role in global warming than have signed onto the raucous parade led by Al Gore.
H. How much of YOUR income and savings are YOU willing to spend on “Global Warming”? Phrased differently, do you fiscally believe in global warming as caused by human beings? Remember, even advocates of the Kyoto Treaty do not believe that complete success in complying with the treaty will have any significant impact on global warming. How much of your funds are you willing to invest in an insignificant endeavor?
H. I am NOT against any study or investigation of global warming. I only advocate such being done in the full light of science and peer review. And, that reasonable and deliberate measures be taken if such are warranted.
I. What would make global cooling more amenable? Would cooling be better for mankind than warming? Was the Ice Age better for the environment than global warming?
J. If you really want something to worry about, the earth is long overdue for a reversal of its magnetic field. And we are certainly in the path of an asteroid which we have not yet discerned. There is also abundant, irrefutable evidence for such past events.
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| Name: |
Psycho
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/24/2009 10:50:29 PM
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Major, their minds are made up, dont be confusing them with the facts. Its funny you mention the ice age. I've always asked people if man is causing the rise in temperature now, what caused the temp. rise that melted the ice during the ice age.
lol.. Of course if the government would give me millions of dollars to study changing temperatures, I might be crying global
warming too....its all about money....and the not so smart world that plays follow the leader, and never have a thought of their own.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/25/2009 9:50:23 AM
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This is an interesting discussion. I'm going to pay closer attention to these stories on global warming to hear what they are really saying. Didn't realize there was such a debate amongst the scientific community.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Consensus
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Date:
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11/25/2009 8:03:09 PM
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Don't you realize that relying on the main stream media for your news is unreliable...there has been a scientific controversy on this subject for quite some time.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Climate-Gate
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Date:
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11/25/2009 8:11:38 PM
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You would think all news organizations might find this subject important.
URL: http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2009/11/24/climategate-totally-ignored-tv-news-outlets-except-fox
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