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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Reflections on Turnout
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Date:
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11/7/2008 10:00:46 AM
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It appears that all the hoopla about record turnout in this year's election was wrong. While the votes are still being tallied it looks like the overall turnout was around 126 million versus 122 million in 2004. When you look at that as a percentage of the overall population it was almost identical. It also appears that the number of self-identified Republicans voting remained about the same as 2004 or was maybe a little higher. So the Republican base apparently did not stay home. What has changed was the number of voters that identified themselves as Republicans. Some percentage switched to independent or Democrat.
What is also apparent is that for all the talk of white voters not going for Obama because of the color of his skin or his name that this issue did not influence their decision. However, the black vote which has typically been as much as 10% in the Republican column went overwhelmingly for Obama. Apparently they were influenced by the color of his skin and the historic opportunity or they simply didn't vote.
A lot of the criticism of Palin driving away Independents and moderates is probably true. However, I maintain that for every one of these she may have driven away, a more moderate VP choice like Hutchison, Whitman, Guiliani, Ridge or Lieberman) I believe he would have lost 2 from the base. I have no hard data to back that up but I can tell you my faith and my conscience would prevent me from casting a vote for any ticket that is not pro life.
On a final note from travels in Memphis hanging out with Elvis, I would love to compare the cover of USA Today for the three days after the 2004 election to this year's. I kick it aside every morning as I am faced with pictures of Obama that make him look like the messiah. Would like to compare it to the days following Bush's reelection in 2004 but I don't really need to look do I?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Reflections on Turnout
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Date:
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11/7/2008 11:07:55 AM
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Interesting thoughts. I really don't think race was a factor.
I wonder what would have happened if McCain had chosen the Governor of Minnesota as his running mate? He was under consideration at one time. I don't think he would have delivered the Christian Right Wing, but he seems very moderate to me, and I think some of us that voted Democratic might have been more comfortable with him.
I'm curious what pictures you see that make you think that Obama is being portrayed as Messiah? I'm not sure I know what that looks like. Do they portray a halo around his head? I see lots of images of him, naturally, because he just won the election.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Race is never a factor......
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Date:
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11/7/2008 11:22:40 AM
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Unless it is the White race. There was a race in NY several years ago in which a white man won over an African- American. Over 98% of the blacks voted for the black. Only 48% of the Whites voted for the Black. On the other hand, less than 2% of the blacks voted for the white man. So, wanna guess what the headlines in the NY Post were the next day? "White Racism" in fluences election results. How surprising.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Race is never a factor......
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Date:
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11/7/2008 11:38:47 AM
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I dont' know -- when I saw the pictures of Bryant Park at Obama's acceptance speech, I saw just as many white faces as I did African American ones.
I like to think that most of our generation no longer judges people by race, unlike our parents generation. I don't think race was a deciding factor in Obama's win. I think a lot of African Americans are excited by it, and I think justifiably so. It's only been 40 years since the civil rights movement.
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| Name: |
muddauber
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| Subject: |
Race is never a factor......
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Date:
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11/7/2008 12:24:31 PM
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Race/gender/party has never a factor to me during any election cycle. Over the years, I've tended towards the Republican side more than Democrats, but have voted for the individual candidate I thought would best serve according to my standards.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/7/2008 1:55:07 PM
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It appears that Catholic voters switched in large numbers to elect Obama. Catholics account for an estimated 27% of the electorate.
In 2004, they split 52% for Bush and 47% for Kerry. This year they reversed it and voted 54% for Obama and 45% for McCain. I believe that McCain would be president if Catholics had supported him as they did Bush.
The switch was not the result of Biden on the ticket as he is pro choice. Biden, being pro chioce , presents a dilema for the US Bishops which will be interesting to follow.
As to Blacks, it is interesting that the Black vote is a big reason why Prop 8 in California was defeated. Blacks oppose gay marrige. I am not here to argue the gay marriage issue, but it is interesting how Blacks scream discrimination at the drop of a pin but will discriminate against another minority---gays.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/7/2008 2:18:02 PM
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That's an interesting statistic.
I ponder the gay marriage issue. I worked with a gay man who went to Canada to be married to his partner. It was a longstanding relationship. What he told me is that they wanted to get married to have their union recognized and perhaps gain some legal standing for their joint assets should one of them die.
You would think that the law could come up with another way to acknowledge gay partnerships, without having it go the marriage route. I think most people cannot accept the concept of same sex marriages. But, at the same time, from an objective point of view, I can understand that gays in a long term relationship want some sort of legal recognition. Of course, if one doesn't like gays they can go to Iran, where according to the Iranian President, they don't have gays. Which opens another cultural can of worms.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/7/2008 4:00:34 PM
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The joint property and property rights if one dies is such a lame argument. The law already allows for these situations. It's called wills. Maybe you have heard of them?
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/7/2008 4:15:20 PM
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Here's my solution ..... the local governments give out civil union licenses to anybody wanting to be joined ... man/woman .... man/man .... woman/woman .... (and limit it to those three occurences) ... then churches can decide what type of wedding cermonies they sanction. Civil Unions are the governments purvey ... marriages are the churches purvey.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/7/2008 4:18:07 PM
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Just realized I used the word "purvey" a couple of times ... .and that isn't the word I meant .... not sure what word I was thinking of ... but basically ..... government does civil unions and churches do weddings/marriage .. sorry about the brain f@rt.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Reflections on Turnout
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Date:
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11/7/2008 4:35:42 PM
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If you look at today's USA Today they show him looking upward with the outline of his head shining. I know it is not a good description, you have to see it to see what I mean. Even more telling are the pictures of the potential senior administration officials circling his head in comparison to one of Mitch McConnel. The bias is evident for all to see but the ideologically blinded.
Again, I would love to compare the coverage on days 1-3 after the 2004 election with the fawning coverage of this one (at least in the USA Today which was outside my hotel room door every morning waiting for me to kick it aside).
I agree that race was not an issue for white voters and for that I am grateful. The black vote (which comprises 13% of the population but arouind 16% of the vote this year) went overwhelmingly to Obama. That 5% to 10% that have historically voted for the Republican candidate either switched to Obama or did not vote. I have no idea which is correct but the fact is that if 98% of whites only voted for a white candidate only white candidates would be elected.
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| Name: |
1DERWHY
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| Subject: |
Race is never a factor......
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Date:
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11/7/2008 4:41:00 PM
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Are you kidding me? I have heard it all now!!! TH, where do you live? Did you really just post that you think that race did not play a deciding factor in this election? Listen, I have many friends and colleagues that are black, and you know why nearly every one of about 60 of them voted for him? I can tell you that it wasn't for his stance on the economy!! I have never been, or hope to never be called a racist, but I am a realist. I do know that 45 = 50% of the whites did vote for him though, which is their decision. Just as would have gladly voted for a Condoleza Rice or Colin Powell on the Repulican ticket. SO YES RACE IS, WAS, AND WILL ALWAYS BE A FACTOR IN THIS COUNTRY. And as long as people believe that the whites owe the blacks something it will always be a factor in everyday life. It is sad but true. Do I agree with what happened then? HE!# NO!!! I believe that God created us all equally, some are just better than others at different things. I hope that we can now get rid of Affirmative action between males. Do you think that will happen? I look forward to your views on
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/8/2008 7:04:48 AM
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But there is a concern about wills being contested by greedy family members who did not approve the relationship.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Reflections on Turnout
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Date:
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11/8/2008 7:07:07 AM
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Haven't seen that image, but now I'll pay more attention and look at it.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Race is never a factor......
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Date:
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11/8/2008 7:22:01 AM
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I'm sure that there were some voters who just voted for Obama because he is African American. But to say that all African American voters voted for him JUST because of his race doesn't seem to be giving much credit to an entire race of Americans. Did you vote for John McCain just because he is white? No, I didn't think so.
This was a historic election because it is the first time an African American was elected, but I don't think he was elected just because of his race. Otherwise, Jesse Jackson and his Rainbow Coalition would have won when they ran.
There is a part of me that feels very proud of our country that an African American can run for President and win regardless of what the demographics look like. i think it speaks to the world about who we are as a people, and that our ideals are not just talk. The fact that women are seriously considered as potential candidates. Back in the 1950's, men told women what the family politics were. For the most part, women used to be limited to career choices of nurse, school teacher, secretaries or housewives. Not that there is anything wrong with those choices, but now they can also be CEOs and run for President of the US. How cool is that?
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/8/2008 11:53:38 AM
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ANY will CAN be contested, very few are. There is no money in for the lawyers. It is VERY RARE for a will to ammended, altered, or the terms changed in any way. The problem arises when one dies in testate becuase then the next of kin takes over. Why would anybody be so concerned about the marriage aspect if there wasn't a hidden agenda?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
How About Religion
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Date:
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11/9/2008 8:24:30 PM
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The guy I'm talking about grew up in Shreveport LA and is about the most Southern of gentlemen I know. For years I worked with him and never even knew he was gay. I'm just telling you what he told me. I believed his sincerity about it. Apparently there has been a lack of acceptance on the part of members of his partners family.
Yes, every will can be contested and few are overturned. But, I think their intent was to establish the validity of their partnership. It took place in a civil setting not a religious one.
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