| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
FAILED BAILOUT VOTE
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Date:
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9/29/2008 3:03:10 PM
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It is definitely interesting events going on in DC these days. I can understand why conservatives opposed the bailout bill because Nancy Pelosi poisoned the mood with a partisan speech before the vote. There are lots of other reasons to oppose this particular bill. But Democrats have enough votes by themselves to pass this if they wanted. I wonder why there is reluctance on the part of Democrats to support their leadership? I think they recognize that this is going to be a problem down the road and are looking for cover. THEY CONTROL CONGRESS AND BUSH WILL SIGN IT.
On another note, there is a very interesting video on Youtube about a series of hearings in 2004 where the agency overseeing Fannie and Freddie warned Congress of the looming crisis. I highly recommend this to all that want to blame Bush for ignoring this problem. This was the Bush administration warning Congress and the response. It is very illuminating.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
More details emerge
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Date:
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9/29/2008 3:56:06 PM
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95 Democrats voted no and 65 Republicans voted yes. What does that tell you about this piece of legislation? For anyone who wants to blame Republicans this has got to be a huge wake up call. This is a problem that can be solved by Democrats with no help in the least from Republicans but Pelosi is so incompetent she can't even get her party in line.
The more I learn the more I am coming to the conclusion that this bill needs to be revamped to include punishment for those executives of Fannie and Freddie. And the concept of giving the Sec of Treasury this kind of control over the financial markets scares the heck out of me.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
More details emerge
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Date:
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9/29/2008 4:13:49 PM
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I would agree ... but one of those that would need to be punished is Obama's advisor Raines. That a-hole walked away with $90mm.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
More details emerge
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Date:
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9/29/2008 4:27:47 PM
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Bush is the President and the buck stops at his desk. He may not have caused the problem, but he didn't do anything to stop it. He could have taken his appeal directly to the citizens if he couldn't get Congress to listen-- it's not like he hasn't done it before. I'm betting there is not a paper trail to be found between the WH and Congress until the crisis. The fault is with everyone including the taxpayers. Everyone knew that they were making bad loans, but seeing your house go up in value like that and sell in a day was too seductive and everyone hoped it wouldn't end.
Too bad none of the Presidential candidates picked an economist for a running mate.
You watch though, we'll catch Bin Laden in the next few weeks.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Did you even read it?
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Date:
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9/29/2008 4:44:09 PM
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I must not have been clear, the Bush regulatory agency appeared before the congressional committee responsible for oversight of Fannie and Freddie and urged them to act. Republicans on that committee urged the committee should act. Democrats blocked it at every turn. It is recorded on video for all who really, truly want to learn the truth even if it doesn't fit their preconceived notions. It may be inconvenient but facts are stubborn things. Go look at the video, its only 8 minutes long and you will maybe have another view if you can keep an open mind.
If you want to take some simplistic approach and blame the current office holder then I will hold you to that standard during the entire next administration. Somehow I fully expect that you will have a miraculous change of heart about this "the buck stops with the President" mantra if its Obama. If McCain is there I am sure you will be entirely consistent. As for me, I will continue to look at the facts and draw my own conclusions.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Another thought
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Date:
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9/29/2008 5:04:03 PM
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Is Bush responsible for getting some of the 95 Dems that voted no to change their vote?!?!?!? Seems he more than did his job to get 65 Republicans to vote yes. Does it mean anything to you that he is actually dependent on Congress to pass legislation? All he can do is Executive Orders which have limited scope. Does the buck stop with him now? If not today, why are you so convinced that it did before? And he has gone to the American people and still 95 Dems voted no. Had he gone to the American people in 2004 when he and Republicans begged for more oversight and regulation what do you think the response would have been?!?!? He would have been accused of leading out of fear, which I have been told repeatedly on the forum that is how he leads.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Please, Please
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Date:
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9/29/2008 5:12:14 PM
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Please, stop showing your stupidity. You and Nancy Palosi with your partisian, we'll blame them and make us look better. What the heck does it accomplish other than more days like today.
Congress makes the laws, the president signs them (go back to school so you understand) ... congress is controlled by democrats. They could have passed this if every republican voted against it if they wanted. They got a lot of republican votes .... but there were more democrats that jumped ship and reject Palosi. Who wouldn't ... I can't believe any democrat would want to say they are aligning with her.
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| Name: |
Tate AU
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| Subject: |
Ignorance is what got us here
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Date:
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9/29/2008 5:25:36 PM
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Please watch the video in the link and the video posted below about what Exactly caused this crisis we are in before you point any fingers.....
http://www.youtube.com/user/TheMouthPeace
Copy and paste above URL.
URL: Timeline shows Bush, McCain warning Dems of financial mess
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Ignorance is what got us here
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Date:
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9/29/2008 5:36:19 PM
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This is by no means the most damning of the videos. There is one that shows highlights from a 2004 grilling of the agency charged with oversight of Fannie and Freddie. This was all predicted, Republicans begged for oversight and regulation and were rebuffed by Democrats, including Barney Frank, who the more I see of his role in all this should be thrown out of office.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Guys, everyone
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Date:
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9/29/2008 6:57:14 PM
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in the House is up for election. They don't care about party lines, only about getting their worthless butts re-elected. That's why they voted the way they did.
On November 5, they'll vote party lines, but for the next thirty odd days they'll listen to their district. Shame they don't listen but once every 2 years.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Thank you
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Date:
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9/29/2008 6:57:48 PM
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I really appreciate you posting this video. It certainly addresses who saw and tried to fix the problem and who was putting their heads in the sand to pretend it was not happening or were not smart enough to realize it.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Thank you
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Date:
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9/29/2008 9:27:57 PM
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I actually remember the testimony. I was living in DC at the time.
Do you know that anyone can propose legislation as long as you can find someone on the Hill to carry your water and take up your issue? I'm not defending the Congress, I think they have been a huge disappointment. But, if the President of the United States thought that the financial markets were headed for trouble, based on the information that was being provided during testimony, and the Congress said that they didn't think it was a problem, then he could have taken his concerns to the American people and asked them to push their representatives for legislation. When you are the number 1 guy in the country, you are ultimately for everything that happens on your watch -- you can't sit back and throw up your hands. There was a time when Bush had a great deal of influence on the Hill, but he squandered it.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Talawho.........
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Date:
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9/29/2008 9:55:56 PM
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You are blowing extremely thick,foggy,noxious smoke while not seeming to understand the 3 branches of government concept of the American system of governance. Do you not remember Bush going over the Congresses head on the Social Security issue and not getting anywhere? You have pushed the idea on this forum of the need for intellectual honesty in the who, what, when and how of our problems............now is the time for you to drink some of that potion. Cspan has the tapes of the Congressional hearings where these warnings and pooh-poohs were made.........it's there for the curious to ponder..........or the rabid to ignore.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Talawho.........
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Date:
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9/29/2008 10:05:32 PM
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I'm not sure I understand your point. I'm not saying that Bush can "make" Congress do anything; however, he could have taken his case to the American people (as he did with Iraq) and asked for their support. Members of Congress listen to their constituites or they don't get re-elected. And Treasury could have proposed legislation (like they just did) before this. So if everyone knew this was coming, how come no one did anything?
But the truth is no matter whose fault it is, we are where we are. And I'm not smart enough to know if the bailout will fix things or just punt things. Apparently a lot of other people a lot smarter than me are in the same boat. I'm sitting here watching financial experts discussing this and they can't agree either.
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| Name: |
UncleSam
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| Subject: |
Seems the real problem is....
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Date:
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9/30/2008 1:28:00 AM
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we have too many people-- on BOTH sides of the aisle-- thinking about their party instead of thinking about their country. At this point in the game, it doesn't matter who is at fault; all that matters is finding the best way to fix the problem. And voting one way because you don't like someone and want to show them up is not fixing the problem.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Seems the real problem is....
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Date:
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9/30/2008 2:14:16 AM
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Seems unbelievable, but I heard on the news tonight that Congressional members are bugging out to their home states due to worries about re-election.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
You are
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Date:
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9/30/2008 6:27:56 AM
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missing the boat again. Even if the president thought they were in trouble way back in 2003 when legislation was proposed, back then there were warning signs to fix. The right things were done and the dems and congress laughed and were critical. Had the president gone to the people when the economy seemed so strong, the american people would have laughed. The republicans were trying to fix before it got to where it is today which takes smart people to understand and reform. You do not need to cause panic.
Your logic is flawed ... it is just like the liberals that say the proactive strike on Iraq and going after the terrorist over there was not necessary and has nothing to do with not having another strike in the US. But had Bush not done that and there were strikes, then people like you would be saying if we thought there was a chance of another 9/11 then the president should have done more to protect us.
You act like you think you are so smart, yet each of your posts really display how out of touch you are. I really feel sorry for you.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You are
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Date:
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9/30/2008 12:00:30 PM
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What I'm really tired of is your constantly telling me how dumb I am.
What's clear to me is that you have no idea how Washington works. I spent 18 years there dealing with some pretty important people including the Hill and the NSC. Don't lecture me about Iraq, I know all about Iraq, know the "architects" of the war and saw these people on a day to day basis. You have no fricking clue beyond what you read in the papers and on the internet. People who know anything about Iraq do not link it to 9/11. Ever.
Since you obviously don't know this, truly intelligent people don't have to go around calling other people dumb. They open their minds and listen, since they believe that they might actually learn something from somone whose perspective and experience is different from theirs.
The only reason I come to this forum is because I have learned some things from some of the more intelligent people here. Unfortunately, not from you. I feel sorry for you -- your perspective is so limited. And you are a bore on top of it. I don't pretend to be an expert in monetary policy. But, I'll argue national security with you any day you like.
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