| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/4/2011 1:39:07 PM
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The reports said [a Bangladeshi girl] Hena was raped by her 40-year-old relative Mahbub on Sunday. On the next day, a fatwa was announced at a village arbitration that she must be given 100 lashes. She fell unconscious after nearly 80 lashes. Fatally injured Hena was rushed to Naria health complex where she succumbed to her injuries.
How would you like it if your pastor decided your rape victim, teenage daughter was a tramp and sent the men of the church to whip her publically.
How long will the civilized world tolerate this heinous and inhuman business?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/4/2011 2:19:30 PM
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The civilized world apparently has very little influence on these barbarians........
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/4/2011 10:10:21 PM (updated 2/4/2011 10:11:35 PM)
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We read of hideous crimes within our own country which are also unacceptable. To be fair, the entire article should be posted rather than a snippet which leaves the impression this is acceptable behavior in Bangladesh.
http://www.thedailystar.net/newDesign/news-details.php?nid=172669
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 9:06:19 AM
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OK, so I read the whole article and what I took from it was that the GOVERNMENT is trying to change acceptable systemic ISLAMIC practices. C'mon, GF you try to make it sound that similar things are acceptable in this country. What kind of lame examples will you come up with? And don't cherry pick with isolated incidents. Cite examples of accepted practices by religious groups, which Islam claims to be. In fact one of the commenters said the practices were even worse in Pakistan than Bangladesh.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 9:51:41 AM
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A Muslim classmate of mine once told me I needed to separate what is "Islam" and what is local cultural practice. In many of these countries, women have no status as human beings and are viewed as nothing more than chattel. So the logic is that if the man raped the woman, then she must have behaved immodestly and lured him into this behavior. Therefore, it is her fault and she would be punished. Her lashings would serve as a reminder to other women what happens to those who behave immodestly. Her family would support it because she has brought dishonor on the family.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 9:59:12 AM
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MrHodja and Maj USA – I ask you this…Do you support the war policy in Iraq and Afghanistan? That is, the belief that to “win hearts and minds” is the best strategy for victory. This is not a political party question. I consider this neither a republican or democrat war policy because the policy followed first by Bush continues today little changed by presidential change. The question is just about the actual military policy...strategy and tactics.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 10:34:42 AM
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Is sharia law a cultural thing or part of Islam? I truly don't know - but the imposition of sharia law in more and more places is troubling to me.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 10:38:35 AM
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There will be no lasting military victory in either place, short of occupation. And in Afghanistan that is nigh on to impossible. Winning hearts and minds, while an uphill battle against centuries of tradition, is really the best (least worst?) option we have.
For sure we can't let places like Afghanistan become open training camps for the likes of Al Quaida. The cost is high but the cost of not doing it could be catastrophically high.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 10:41:39 AM
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GF, I think the point is not whether this is or is not acceptable to the government but whether it is acceptable behavior in accordance with the fundamental tenets of the so-called religion of Islam. It clearly is and until Islam reforms itself you will actually see more honor killings rather than less. This is a battle between 21st century civilization and 6th century barbarism. And frankly we are losing at this point as is clearly in evidence in Europe and the Middle East.
Glad the government of Bangladesh is trying to discourage the people from following their religion.....I wish them good luck.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Sharia is a religious law, pure and simple
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Date:
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2/5/2011 10:42:26 AM
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion
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Date:
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2/5/2011 12:03:03 PM
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NO! I believe that the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq should have been prosecuted as wars and, following such wars, that “nation building” with Islamic cultures is futile. That particular culture has predisposition to reject both western democracy and western culture. Remember, our laws and perspective are steeped in Judeo-Christian concepts and beliefs… and is therefore, in accordance with the Koran, to be shunned, resisted, and converted by conquest.
In Baghdad, I worked directly with Iraqi government officials. During that time I saw ample evidence that a) I was (we were) being exploited and that b) democracy was a transient condition and that c) they were simply waiting for us to depart so that they could get on with their way of life… PS: leave as much money and infrastructure as possible.
Islamic culture understands ultimatum backed by withering force. They do not respond appropriately to charity and negotiation. They are unsubscribed to precepts of the Geneva Conventions.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Sharia Law
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Date:
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2/5/2011 12:07:49 PM
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Sharia law is the enforcement arm of Islam. The first article of the Iraqi constitution says that no part of the constitution shall go against Sharia law. In contrast our first amendment says that our government may not establish an official religion. Therein lies the basis for unsuccessful nation building… their religion is free to undo whatever we have done.
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
Sharia Law
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Date:
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2/5/2011 1:13:56 PM
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Maj USA - I am in agreement with you. I think that the wars were necessary and fully justified. The continued nation-building and policing is a waste of time and money...lots of money...and an unnecessary risk to American lives. The money could be better spent stregthening our military and weapon technology to use on the next country that poses a direct threat to our security.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Sharia Law
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Date:
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2/5/2011 2:22:30 PM
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The culture of Islam, as it is expressed in countries and societies falling under the current interpretations of Sharia Law, does not promote charity or compassion for wounded or captured prisoners. This charity and compassion is a matured perspective of our Judeo-Christian religion now imbedded in western culture.
We Christians have not always been so compassionate. Up through the Middle Ages, much killing, raping, pillaging, and plundering was done by Christians in the name of God and by the authority of the church (e.g. the Crusades, the conquests of Charlemagne, the Inquisitions, etc.) Indeed, the Muslims use retribution for the Crusades as justification for their current co-opt of “jihad” against the west.
It is also interesting to note that the Muslim societies, up through the times of the Middle Ages, were tolerant of Christians! Our roles are now reversed… we are more civilized and compassionate… they are more barbaric.
We hope for the times when God(aka Allah) is no longer an excuse for killing, cruelty, retribution, judgement, and revenge.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Sharia Law
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Date:
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2/5/2011 4:37:57 PM
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Maj: I understand the point you are trying to make but your understanding of the Crusades is incomplete. The Crusades were defensive in nature in response to Moorish aggression. If you don't believe me then help me understand why prior to the Crusades were there seven centers of Christianity and afterward there was only one. The fact is we lost the Crusades and if it were not for a miracle at Lepanto where Christians defeated the Moors all of Europe would have been overrun and would have been controlled by Islam.
A lot of the misinformation about the Crusades stems from agenda-driven history attempting to discredit the Catholic Church. If it weren't for the Church almost certainly you would be a Muslim and not a Christian and for that I am eternally grateful. The conduct of the Crusaders was consistent with the actions of all military campaigns prior to and leading up to these events. We can't be tricked into looking at their conduct from the prism of 21st century mores.
I could likewise debunk much of the conventional wisdom about the Inquisition but I can tell you that this era is likewise distorted by agenda-driven writers and researchers.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/5/2011 4:42:43 PM
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Think back to the 60s when blacks were the victims for trying to sit down and eat at a Woolworth. When blacks were the victims for trying to move to the front of the bus. When blacks were the victims for trying to vote. When blacks in earlier years were beaten or lynched for looking at a white woman the wrong way. When blacks were the victims and beaten or lynched when they tried to escape slavery. There was a period when people in mixed marriages were beaten because "the bible says we should not mix the races". We look at the 2010 Alabama and 2011 Auburn football teams and see a result of desegregation where people of both races look at black and white players as athletes not merely as black or white. These changes took years yet we would like to see Islam change overnight.
I posted the entire article because the government is trying to change the action to make it a crime as the posting left the impression that the action was totally the norm in Bangladesh. Whipping or stoning victims is barberic and no one should read into any of my comments that I support it.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/6/2011 9:34:16 AM
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GF, I never saw anything in your comments that suggest you support stoning, etc. But your analogy with Jim Crow doesn't work for me. It is in fact Christian charity and a recognition that we are all created in the image and likeness of God that drove much of the desire to end racism. What is missing here is a wide swath of Muslims coming out in opposition to these acts. But the fact is that this very ideology is being promoted in Mosques and Madrassas all over the world, rather than by a regionally isolated remnant of the Civil War. As for the marriage of whites and blacks I can tell you from experience (at least where I grew up) that blacks were no more supportive of racially mixed marriages than were whites. That is why interracial marriages were so rare because the couple found themselves isolated and their children not being accepted by anyone. Thankfully that attitide has changed a lot in the last 50 years although it is still not absent on either side.
Good for the government to pass a law but as we have seen in Europe and will see more often in the U.S., devout Muslims accept no other law than that derived from their faith. It is an honor if they stone a woman to death, and a greater honor if they are punished for it by civil authorities. Christian social doctrine demands adherence to just civil laws and since our system of jurisprudence is based on Judeo-Christian values there are relatively few conflicts and certainly none that would demand that we kill a woman for being raped, quite the opposite actually.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/6/2011 1:18:16 PM (updated 2/6/2011 1:21:55 PM)
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Your wasting your facts, logic and reason on someone who sees the world through different colored glasses. What really slays me is that I have seen GF post on other forums and those posts actually are helpful and semi-sane. The ones here are just flat out to lunch.
For GF to try to excuse absolutely inhumane treatment of innocent rape victims by trying to say "we are bad too" is asinine. But then at least on this forum his/her posts are truly consistently goofy.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/6/2011 2:38:06 PM
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Shame on me...should read "You're wasting your facts..."
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/6/2011 7:42:46 PM
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"For GF to try to excuse absolutely inhumane treatment of innocent rape victims by trying to say "we are bad too" is asinine." What an absolutely foolish remark. To suggest that I tried to excuse inhumane treatment of innocent rape victims is both untrue and intellectually dishonest.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/6/2011 11:33:51 PM
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So, Robbie, did I strike a nerve?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The Peaceful Religion Hodgie and MM
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Date:
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2/7/2011 8:46:16 AM
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GF, as I said before no one thinks you support this behavior but the moral equivalency argument is the last vestige of the hopeless. How some regional events in our history are relevant is beyond me and others. What is the point? Because some rednecks and southern racists treated blacks in an awful way this somehow expiates for the stoning and other murders committed in the name of Islam? Are we supposed to feel some guilt about this history? I wasn't there, I never lynched anybody, neither I am sure did any of the others on this forum. The worst I have done is become nervous and cross the street when a group of young, black teens dressed like gangbangers were coming in the opposite direction.....oh, but wait a second, Jesse Jackson said exactly the same thing.
When you try to use the moral equivalency argument it can only be assumed that your point is a) we should just sit down and shut up about these Islam-inspired behaviors or b) it somehow excuses their behavior. Neither is reasonable or true. If not these, then what exactly is your point and how is it relevant to the topic? I suspect it isn't but maybe you can help me understand......
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
An Observation
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Date:
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2/7/2011 10:48:21 AM
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Every time GF throws a red herring on the table, someone will go for it and takes the thread in a whole other direction.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
An Observation
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Date:
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2/7/2011 11:22:28 AM
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Not just an observation.....but a valid observation. He is tricky that way........
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Hey Mr Hodgieee
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Date:
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2/7/2011 12:43:20 PM
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You mean like you and Bald Island?
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