Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Manchin Plus 50
Date:	12/19/2021 6:38:58 PM

Joe Manchin announced that, as hard as he tried, he can't vote for Biden's socialist power grab they call "Build Back Better".  Fon the Fox News web site I saw the following:  "ABC News raised eyebrows Friday after sharing an AP story republished on its site, tweeting, "A single senator is about to seriously set back an entire presidential agenda."

The AP story leaves out one critical element.  If indeed Manchin does hold true to his word Biden's "entire presidential agenda" will be set back by 51 senators, not 1.  If indeed the bill does not pass the Dems will have earned the defeat by their rank partisanship and treating a razor thin majority in the house and a senate majority that relies on the vote of the VP as a blank check.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Majority vote
Date:	12/20/2021 8:40:28 AM

While I still believe Manchin will cave, the framing of this by the media and the Dems is completely dishonest.  In the case of this particular bill all they need is 50 votes and then VPOTUS can cast the winning vote.  It is telling indeed that they weren't able to get Romney, Collins, Murkowski, et al to vote for this bill.....that's how bad it is.  If you can't even get one RINO Senator on your side you know you're so over the top that even they can't sign on.  Quite a feat.

Name:	CRD -	Reply
Subject:	Majority vote
Date:	12/20/2021 9:59:54 AM

Whether he caves or not, I feel, depends on how bad he wants to be the Dem Presidential nominee in 2024.  The current ticket is so putrid, even the gullible Dem voters can't hold their noses long enough to cast a vote for Biden and/or Harris.   My realistic take is that he caves. 

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Majority vote
Date:	12/20/2021 10:22:36 AM (updated 12/20/2021 10:33:44 AM)

Mine as well.  He will never switch to the GOP and if he did, he would be a RINO in the Romney mode.  Romney is going to work against any GOP POTUS out of bitterness and petty jealousy.  Manchin would because while he is moderate on some economic issues, he is still a Democrat at heart.  As for him running on the Dem ticket, there is zero chance the loony left base of his party would allow him to be the nominee any more than Pence has a chance on the GOP side.

When he does cave, you are going to have to look long and hard at the candy they will have promised him.  Let's just say there will be a lot of new bridges, buildings, etc. named after him when this is over.  As for really helping the people of WVa there is no way he will get anything that will help the coal industry.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Manchin Plus 50
Date:	12/20/2021 10:25:18 AM

I don't think he will cave - if he thought he might, I don't think he would have publicly knifed the WH in the back, as he did on Sunday.  I have emailed his office several times, encouraging him to hang tough.  I believe there are still people that will stand on their principles.  I may end up eating crow, but I think he will prevail.  It's a financially irresponsible bill and simply a bill to get votes for Democrats by pandering to their base.  I don't know about his position on other things, but if he ran for President, for this alone, I would give him serious consideration.  

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I can assure you we hope you're right
Date:	12/20/2021 10:33:01 AM

I'm pulling for you to be right.  Maybe CRD and I are too cynical about politicians given how often they say one thing, do another and then come up with some word salad bovine excrement claiming that they didn't cave when in reality they caved.  It's usually the carrot, the stick or both that finally gets them.  Maybe they'll get Mayor Pete to dole out billions to WVa.  I like your optimism and wish I could feel the same way.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Majority vote
Date:	12/20/2021 11:05:05 AM

even the gullible Dem voters can't hold their noses long enough to cast a vote for Biden and/or Harris

I can think of several who post here who will vote for him again without any issues.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I can assure you we hope you're right
Date:	12/20/2021 8:57:29 PM

At this point, I look for things to be optimistic about.  Our government is a pathetic mess right now and all this will simply mortgage the future.