| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Fox News goes over the edge
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Date:
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7/20/2009 8:35:51 PM
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A Fox News Military Analyst Retired Lt. Col. Ralph Peters appeared yesterday and was questioned about US Pvt. Bergdahl's capture by the Taliban. He stated that while all the evidence was not in, he believed the soldier was a deserter and that certainly he had betrayed America by aiding his captors. The fact that he was under duress was not relevant. (Wonder what Sen McCain who signed a confession under duress, thinks of the Lt. Col's opinion?) He ended by saying that if the Pvt. was a deserter, the Taliban could save America time and money by killing him. Is this a retired US military officer or an Al Qaeda representative. I thought even deserters in today's military were deserving of a Court-Marshal trial before going before the firing squad. I think Lt. Col. Peters is a disgrace to the uniform he wore and that Fox should be sahamed for letting him spew his garbage over the airwaves.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Not at all ...
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Date:
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7/20/2009 8:52:17 PM
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It is just that a liberal like you is not used to fair and balanced reporting.
It seems you are saying that if a news channel does not agree with something they should cut off a guest from their 1st amendment right. What is a liberal like you watching a fair and balanced channel like Fox anyway. Stick to a biased liberal channel like CNN or MSNBC.
That is the thing about freedoms and a fair and balanced channel ... they give all sides of a story and weather we agree or disagree, the viewer is well informed. It is just that you are only seeing the liberal point of view and not all sides of an issue ... that is why it seems so odd to you GF. :)
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Not at all ...
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Date:
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7/20/2009 10:07:40 PM
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So WW, what is your opinion of Lt. Col Peters opinion as to what should happen to Pvt. Bergdahl? I already know what you think of Fox (we distort, you comply). Anybody honest and open minded man who listens to CNN and Fox and calls Fox the "fair and balanced" network and CNN biased one is himself unbalanced. The same can be said for MSNBC and CNN. You are also real screwed up if you think GW and I are one in the same.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Looked for it but no luck
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Date:
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7/20/2009 10:24:11 PM
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Archie: As usual you have mischaracterized what Peters said. I don't know why you think we won't check on your charactierization as you shown time and again to be irresponsible. The relevant quotes:
On Fox News yesterday, guest Ralph Peters, a retired Army Lt. Col., urged against leaping to conclusions. “I was to stress first of all that we must wait until all of the facts are in until we make a final judgment,” Peters said, but quickly added, “He is an apparent deserter,” “he is collaborating with the enemy,” and “we know that this private is a liar.” Peters then suggested that if Bergdahl is a deserter, the Taliban should kill him: I want to be clear. If, when the facts are in, we find out that through some convoluted chain of events, he really was captured by the Taliban, I’m with him. But, if he walked away from his post and his buddies in wartime, I don’t care how hard it sounds, as far as I’m concerned, the Taliban can save us a lot of legal hassles and legal bills."
Surely a bit of hyperbole but not as you characterized it as usual. Peters is pretty plugged in with the military and I am betting he did his homework for this piece and heard some unsettling news about the guy. It seems to me that he has placed the appropriate level of doubt about whether the allegation of desertion is true. And he has responded with the appropriate level of disdain for a deserter if it is true. Fox News reports and then lets you decide. If you don't like it don't watch it. I never watch CNN or PMSNBC because I don't care for their bias. You should do the same with Fox.
URL: -++
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Looked for it but no luck
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Date:
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7/20/2009 10:56:14 PM
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MM ... I assume you watched the video of that kid from Idaho. My question is very simple .... do you think that was a deserter who was cooperating with the Taliban? Or do you think that was an American soldier under sever duress ... being forced to say what his captors wanted him to say? Thanks.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Looked for it but no luck
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:00:25 PM
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Good Lord ... I just re-read what he said and I am shocked.
On Fox News yesterday, guest Ralph Peters, a retired Army Lt. Col., urged against leaping to conclusions. “I was to stress first of all that we must wait until all of the facts are in until we make a final judgment,” Peters said, but quickly added, “He is an apparent deserter,” “he is collaborating with the enemy,” and “we know that this private is a liar.” Peters then suggested that if Bergdahl is a deserter, the Taliban should kill him:
He urges against leaping to conclusions ... and then he says "He is an apparent deserter ... he is collaborating with the enemy .... we know this private is a liar."
Well thank goodness we aren't going to leap to any conclusions.
So much for supporting the troops ...
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Looked for it but no luck
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:10:43 PM
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I guess MM just can't bring himself to say Fox screwed up or that a right wing retired military vet. just might be half-cocked or worse. Again, was McCain a liar when as a POW he confessed while under duress? Why can't the likes of MM and WW ever admit that some of the folks who side with them are NUTS?!!!
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
BTW MM
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:12:02 PM
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
BTW MM
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:15:02 PM
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I think "Just a guy's" entry into the conversation pretty much shoots down your claim that I mischaracterized Peter's interview. My thanks to you.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Looked for it but no luck
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:15:19 PM
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Architect ... I have to confess that I don't have any hope that WW will admit anything ... but I will be really disappointed if MartiniMan continues to support this guy .... MM please don't support this guy?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Peters
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Date:
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7/20/2009 11:58:33 PM
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Peters has written 8 novels as Ralph Peters, another 8 Abel Jones Series (as "Owen Parry", pseudonym of Ralph Peters), and 7 non fiction. Maybe, he is just developing a plot for his next book.
In a 2009 article for The Journal of International Security Affairs titled "Wishful Thinking and Indecisive Wars" Peters' advocates the ruthless use of United States military power, declaring "If you cannot win clean, win dirty."
He lists himself as an Indepedant.
He is one interesting dude.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Peters and Bergdahl
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Date:
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7/21/2009 12:31:01 AM
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-Interesting string of comments on this subject. Please let me add a few.
-PFC Bergdahl: I just watched the 28 min video. Sad. What he said goes way beyond what he should have said. Yet, ...he did not appear eager to collaborate; rather, he appeared reluctant. What we have here is a scared 23 yer old kid. Yes, he is a soldier. But once stripped form his unit, stripped of his weapons, stripped of his uniform, stripped of any ability to change his circumstances, he caved. I went through a lot of teh Army's escape and evasion courses. They are realistic and hard. Yet, I often wondered what I would have done if captured. You can't be sure until it happens. If this kid gets back, he will have a lot to answer for. Our job as a nation is first --to get him back.
-Ralph Peters: It just so happens I know Peters. He was not a close friend, just an acquaintance. However, we worked in some of the same units; had some of the same education and trainnig; worked on similar missions, --just not at the same time. Ralph's opinions and perspectives were always very individualistic, not often reflecting mainstream Army thinking. Some times this worked for him, at other times it did not. Most of what Peters said in his FOX presentation, in my opinion, does not reflect what most Army officers think of this situation.
-I would state that most Army personnel think that Bergdahl, in this video, has gone way beyond where he should have, but not as far as he could have. He is a scared young man who just wants to survive, and will do some things to achive that end , --but maybe not everything. There but for the grace.....
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Not at all ...
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Date:
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7/21/2009 6:58:00 AM
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I did not see it and all the facts, so I can not express an opinion. I have no idea if you took it out of context and I am not close enough to the facts of the case to determine if your post was accurate that it may have been a valid comment.
But your post was bashing FOX ... that is what I responded to.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Peters and Bergdahl
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Date:
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7/21/2009 7:52:00 AM
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You know, I don't think anyone should rush to judgement. We all know how we would like to respond if we were in that situation, but until we're there we don't know. We don't know what is going on off camera.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Let me repeat
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Date:
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7/21/2009 8:53:41 AM
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I don't know and you don't know what the actual circumstances are with this kid and whether he deserted, was kidnapped or some combination of the two. I simply stated that of the three of us, me, you and Ralph Peters, only one of us is closely tied to the current military and that is Peters. Maybe his contacts are telling him the kid deserted, who knows? You stated he was a disgrace to the military even though you have no idea what he is being told by others. People in glass houses jumping to conclusions should not throw stones. Maybe you should have said, "Let's not jump to conclusions about what Peter's said because maybe he knows something we don't know, but if he doesn't his remarks are disgraceful". I could agree with that. But no, you assume he has no idea and since it is Fox News you feel free to jump to your own conclusions.
I trust Yankee's views that Peters doesn't represent the mainstream of Army thought on the issue of desertion which also means he is not the only one that would advocate this position.
As for Fox News screwing up, when you two admit that CNN, pMSNBC, ABC, NBC, Washington Post, NY Times, LA Times and all the other government media "screw up" every day with their sycophantic coverage of the Messiah and the dolts running Congress I'll give Fox another look. I won't hold my breath.....
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Yankee 06
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Date:
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7/21/2009 9:08:18 AM
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Excellent comments.*
* I would love to get such from WW
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Please read all my posts
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Date:
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7/21/2009 2:11:41 PM
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I think you will see quite clearly that I am not defending him in the least. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt about whether he has some knowledge of the situation that caused him to make this statement. As I said below, if in fact he has no actual knowledge of the circumstances beyond the video then I would agree that it is disgraceful. I would not agree with Archie's contention that he is a disgrace to the uniform because as far as I know he served honorably and he is retired.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
I don't understand why you
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Date:
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7/21/2009 5:42:31 PM
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watch the garbage on Fox, when you can get fair and objective reporting from Cris Matthews, Keith Oberman and Rachael Madix (sp?) on MSNBC?? Dude, does your remote need a new battery??
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Please read all my posts
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Date:
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7/21/2009 6:24:38 PM
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Makes sense MM ... thanks.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Please read all my posts
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Date:
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7/21/2009 9:32:55 PM
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MM even if Bergdahl is a deserter, a coward and a collaborater he is not deserving of execution without trial by us or our enemies. If Lt. Col Peters served with honor, bravery and destinction for his entire career, that does not any way justify his statement excusing and even approving the murder of a US service man by the enemy, even if the man is a deserter, a coward and a collaborater. If for no other reason condemn him for the danger in which he may place other POWs.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Please read all my posts
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Date:
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7/21/2009 11:16:14 PM
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Archie: my posts stand for themselves and while his views may not represent the majority of military people, he is likely not alone in his disdain for the guy if in fact he deserted. I would not have used that language and as I said above I pray for Bergdahl's release. But if he deserted and we get him back he certainly deserves whatever punishment he is due after a military court tries him. I hope that isn't the case but we will have to wait to find out.
Please don't tell me you really believe that what Peters said on Fox News is going to have any influence on barbarians like the Taliban. Even you are not that gullible. These guys chop off the heads of prisoners because they have no soul and nothing Ralph Peters says on a cable news show is going to influence them one way or the other. You give Peters and Fox News way more credit than they deserve.
I still believe you and others are jumping to conclusions just as you accuse Peters of doing so. And all just to bash Fox News. As I have said before, give me ABC, CBS, NBC, MSNBC, Wash Post, NY Times, LA Times and all the other government media and I will give you Fox News to do with whatever you want. Heck, I might even throw in Hannity......but not Rush, he is bigger than all those put together. Y'all need to have some perspective about this abnormal fixation on Fox News. It's way out of proportion.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Yes MM
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Date:
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7/22/2009 9:25:33 AM
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Your posts do speak for themselves as do mine, and your's say it is difficult to impossible for you to acknowlwdge that a conservative military officer can be an idiot. Lt. Col Peters' words also speak for themselves and his opinions should be at least disturbing if not disgusting for any unbised observer.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Yes MM and BTW
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Date:
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7/22/2009 9:28:01 AM
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The last paragraph of your last post speaks for itself and tells all anyone needs to know about you!
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Yes MM and BTW
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Date:
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7/22/2009 10:03:33 AM
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Yes MM and BTW
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Date:
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7/22/2009 10:03:33 AM
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Yes MM and BTW
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Date:
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7/22/2009 10:03:33 AM
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Hey Archy...........
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Date:
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7/22/2009 10:06:40 AM
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You need to give it up.........that horse is dead and you need to take the saddle off and find another mount, cause I don't believe MM is going to give you any succour for your rants..........
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Dead Horse
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Date:
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7/22/2009 11:41:40 AM
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As Rude has noted and trusting the tribal wisdom of the Dakota Indians, passed on from one generation to the next, when you discover you are riding a dead horse, the best strategy is to dismount. However, in the left-wing liberal world, other strategies have been tried with dead horses, including but not limited to the following:
1. Buying a stronger whip.
2. Changing riders.
3. Appointing a committee to study the horse.
4. Arranging to visit other forums to see how they ride dead horses.
5. Lowering the standards so that dead horses can be included.
6. Threatening the horse with termination.
7. Appointing an intervention team to re-animate the dead horse.
8. Creating a training session to increase the rider’s load share.
9. Re-classifying the dead horse as living-impaired.
10. Change the form so that it reads: “This horse is not dead.”
11. Hire outside contractors to ride the dead horse.
12. Harness several dead horses together for increased speed.
13. Providing additional funding to increase the horse’s performance.
14. Purchase an after-market product to make dead horses run faster.
15. Rewrite the expected performance requirements for dead horses.
16. Apply for a government bailout to retrain dead horses.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
LOL..........
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Date:
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7/22/2009 12:15:36 PM
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Can you sleep at night
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Date:
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7/22/2009 12:33:41 PM
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with all this worrying about Fox News? I really do hope so because it seems like such an abnormal fixation. You should just consider not watching that channel.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Right about that
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Date:
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7/22/2009 12:46:25 PM
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I know he wants me to condemn the guy but I am holding my powder until we learn more unlike Archie. He only gives the benefit of the doubt to leftists. Such is life.......
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| Name: |
Lady
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| Subject: |
Can you sleep at night
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Date:
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7/22/2009 3:25:23 PM
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I don't watch that channel because I prefer my fiction to be entertaining.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
With the Passing of Walter
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Date:
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7/22/2009 3:41:02 PM
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Cronkite, I have been thinking about when the news didn't have talking head analysts. Who ARE these people and where do they come from? Did y'all know that for $7,000 you can take a course in being an "expert" on TV?
Anyway, I was thinking about WC and remembering when the news didn't have a "political" slant -- it was just the news. Reporters used to pride themselves on "just the facts". People were amazed when WC showed any emotion about his stories, and that's why people still remember when he did -- when JFK was killed and the landing on the moon.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
With the Passing of Walter
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Date:
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7/22/2009 4:04:54 PM
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If you think Walter didn't have a bias, then we weren't watching the same Cronkite.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Well stated, lady..
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Date:
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7/22/2009 4:27:08 PM
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fiction is much more entertaining than reality.. but at some point we really need address the latter
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Can you sleep at night
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Date:
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7/22/2009 9:21:55 PM
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Uh huh.....if you couldn't vote I would be all for you focusing on entertaining fiction.
Fox News seems to be doing OK without you considering they have higher ratings than the next three cable channels combined. After months of searching they actually found someone that watches MSNBC. Turned out to be a relative of Chris Matthews or Keith Olberman, they wouldn't admit which.
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| Name: |
architect
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| Subject: |
Amazing!
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Date:
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7/22/2009 10:48:41 PM
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Walter Cronkite was biased and Fox News is "fair and balanced"! You people make me so very thankful that the values of middle Alabama are not the values of middle America.
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
With the Passing of Walter
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Date:
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7/22/2009 11:50:32 PM
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AU67 ... I would be interested to know what you are referring to? I know that WC eventually came to question whether the war in Viet Name was winnable, but it's not like he was an anti-war hippie from the beginning. I believe that each and every one of us has biases based on our life experiences ... the key is for us to not allow our personal biases impact/influence how we do our jobs. And I personally believe that WC and most of the old-school journalists did a better job of reporting the facts without letting their personal biases influence their reporting.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
With the Passing of Walter
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Date:
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7/23/2009 9:18:36 AM
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I certainly consider his remarks to the nation in 1968 to the effect that the Vietnam War could not be won to be a biased opinion.
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