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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a "moderate"…
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Date:
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8/18/2010 8:50:08 AM
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I got to thinking this morning as I was driving into work and listening to the radio. A gentleman had called in and was expressing his view that the Islamic Center/Mosque near the WTC site and in a building where debris from one of the planes came crashing down wasn't a freedom of religion issue but a national security issue. He went further and expressed his opinion that we should close all mosques because they represent a national security risk because so many are a hotbed of radicalism. Obviously his is a minority opinion but he was not foaming at the mouth but was very calm and measured in defending this opinion.
What ensued was a conversation about the distinction between "moderate" Muslims and radical Muslims. And that got me to thinking, is there really any such thing as a "moderate" Muslim? There is no doubt that the proposal to build a $100 million Islamic cultural center and mosque near one of the 911 sites has sparked a renewed debate in this country about the nature of Islam. The question is why.
One issue that I think is driving this is we are being told by the government media and the likes of Mayor Bloomberg and that Imam Rauf is in fact a moderate. And he is obviously tied to the Obama administration as is evidenced by tax dollars being used to fund a junket to the middle east. And yet when you read what he has said about the 911 attacks being our fault, his repeated refusal to state that Hamas is a terrorist organization, his lies to the zoning commission and his refusal to reveal where the mosque funding will come from many Americans rightly are rethinking the concept of a moderate Muslim. If Imam Rauf is a moderate given what he is proposing to do and has said can we trust any so-called moderate Muslim? In essence is he giving moderate Muslims a bad name?
The more I thought about it the more I think we are using the wrong terminology. If you examine the history of Islam and the fundamental tenets of this religion it is obvious that any true adherent to Islam cannot be moderate, at least when viewed from the lens of modern society. Maybe in the 7th century one could claim to be moderate because you didn't actively kill the infidel with the sword but believed in the caliphate and sharia law. But under the lens of modernity no one who believes this can be considered moderate whether they will act in violence or not.
What I believe we need to do is to differentiate between "secular" Muslims and religious Muslims and get rid of the entire concept of moderate. I know and am friends with a number of Muslims, some of whom work for me, and they are not moderate, they are secular. Their religion is not the focal point of their lives. They do not pray five times a day. Most of them eat pork. Some are married to Christians and allow their children to be raised as Christians. All are great Americans who love this country and despise radical Islam. I also know a few devout Muslims and none can be described as moderate. They loathe Jews and strongly believe in the restoration of the caliphate and the imposition of Sharia law. They would never sanction violence to get what they want but in my opinion their views can never be called moderate.
So I propose we stop using the term moderate to describe any devout Muslim. It is an oxymoron. And when we encounter a practicing Muslim that eschews violence, as few as there seem to be, we should just call them Muslim. And when we encounter a non-practicing Muslim (which is in fact the vast majority of the so-called moderate Muslims) we should call them secular Muslims.
On a final note, what I have been hearing from almost every quarter is that while Imam Rauf may have a legal right to build the mosque but that doesn't make it right. I hear a lot about religious freedom and I am reminded of something Pope John Paul the Great said, "Freedom is not the right to do what you want, but the right to do what you ought". They may have a legal right to build there but the vast majority of Americans agree that they ought not to build there, and justifiably so.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a…
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Date:
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8/18/2010 9:09:36 AM
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Is a Muslim really a Muslim if they don't actually practice their religion? I suppose it is possible to be a secular Muslim, just as it is possible to be a secular Christian.
While the current Inman in NYC at the center of the controversy a "moderate" how long will it be before he is replaced by a "radical"?
I see this as a test of wills. The Inman is hellbent to have his center where he wants, despite the controversy He's not the least bit interested in promoting understanding of the Muslim religion as he has said. He's interested in shoving Islam down the throats of New Yorkers.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a…
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Date:
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8/18/2010 9:14:37 AM
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Thank you for being on this Forum.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a…
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Date:
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8/18/2010 10:01:16 AM
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Hound, I realize that its partially semantics but you describe the Imam as moderate and yet when you look at what he is trying to do and has said and seems to believe and if he is indeed moderate then I lean toward the position of the guy that called the radio station and wants to close all the mosques. But I just can't get there.....
I just have come to the conclusion that any adherent to Islam cannot be described as moderate. That term has a connotation that they are tolerant, reasonable and aligned with the interests of the vast majority of Americans that are non-Muslim. Imam Rauf does not fall into that category and yet he is regularly touted as a moderate Muslim. That frankly scares the heck out of me.......
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a…
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Date:
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8/18/2010 8:24:11 PM
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Just means he is more "moderate" than say, Osama Bin Laden...
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Is there such a thing as a…
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Date:
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8/19/2010 8:12:00 AM
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And therein lies the problem. I think your definition of moderate is much different than is being portrayed by the government media and I actually think Imam Rauf is more moderate than Usama but he is still radical. He still wants to impose Sharia law on the U.S. He still wants to restore the Caliphate. He still believes in jihad. And yet we are supposed to embrace him as a moderate as if that is something to be admired.
I will repeat what I said before because I am coming to believe it more and more. The only Muslim we can truly trust is a secular Muslim. Any Muslim, "moderate" Muslim or radical Muslim is at war with modernity as is evidenced by their treatment of women as cattle, their support of jihad and their strict adherence to the Koran. Should we close all the mosques? No. Should the FBI have a program to infiltrate and investigate every single Mosque in America? Yes.
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