| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Obama takes mother in law on state trip
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Date:
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3/19/2011 7:23:31 AM
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The federal government is borrowing $5-$6 billion "a day", the dems are fighting budget cuts, there is crisis in Libya and Japan, yet Obama finds time to take an "optional" trip to Latin America and have his mother in law join them at tax payer expense. Makes me sick.
In February, the federal government took in $110 billion in revenue and spent $278 billion ... yet the dems do not see this as an issue and continue to fight a $60 billion budget cut.
No, a $60 billion budget cut does not solve the problem, but it does show we are serious to addressing this issue before we have no choice.
Obama and the dems put us in this mess, now they need to address it as the republican come in with their big brooms to clean up the mess.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Obama takes mother in law on state trip
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Date:
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3/19/2011 9:18:37 AM
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It's not at taxpayers expense. Family members, other than the spouse, that travel with the President must be paid by personal funds.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Obama takes mother in law on state trip
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Date:
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3/19/2011 12:39:41 PM
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Yeah sure ... I know that is what the rule is ... I am sure they separate all the expenses so Obama pays for is mom in law fully. Are you for real.
The bigger question is ... what is she doing there on a state trip when there are multiple crisis going on.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Obama takes mother in law on state trip
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Date:
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3/19/2011 1:17:17 PM
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I believe that she babysits the kids. Which is why she lives in the WH.
And yes, I do believe that they separate the expenses. I'm sure she gets a few freebies for traveling with the President, but that is no different than any other Administration. And I don't have a problem with it. How do you think GWB was getting back and forth to Crawford? Do you think he always traveled alone? Not likely. But, so what?
And I do believe that when they fly AFOne they do pay a reduced rate. But, I don't have a problem with that either -- since the President if traveling anyway the plane is going to be used. There was an article recently on Eatocracy about flying on AF One. Understand it is first rate, as well it should be.
If you want moral outrage, then why don't you focus on the traveling done by Congressional Delegations? Lots more money wasted there, and what do we get out of it?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Obama takes mother in law on state trip
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Date:
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3/19/2011 3:33:18 PM
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I'll tell you one thing we get out of congressional boondoggles....they are out of the country and can't pass stupid laws. A silver lining in every cloud. I guess I am not at all exercised about Grandma hopping a ride on Air Force One and if I were President I would take my Mom with me. Frankly from my viewpoint Obama could go on vacation, play golf and study the Final Four pairings for the remainder of his term and we would all be better off.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
i do have to agree ...
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Date:
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3/19/2011 7:29:36 PM
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That obama must spend a lot of time with NCAA basketball ... his brackets in the first round were 29 right and only 3 wrong. Just imagine if he was that good with the economy and world affairs ... maybe he should get involved in more local and state business ... that is what he seems to enjoy (well it is his background as a community organizer) ... not all that complicated world affairs and the US economy.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
i do have to agree ...
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Date:
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3/19/2011 7:55:23 PM
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Gee, and he did that AND built an international coalition to stop the killing in Libya.
Could it be that he actually knows something about building a consensus so the US doesn't have to go it alone??? My, my.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
again ...
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Date:
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3/19/2011 8:03:52 PM
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no different than Bush did in Iraq.
Ok ... need to stop for tonight. I hear a bottle of wine calling me.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
If he hadn't had Tony Blair in the UK
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Date:
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3/19/2011 8:28:47 PM
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he wouldn't have had any coalition at all. His coalition was built on a lie. And Blair paid the price politically. All those "coalition" members pulled out of Iraq as soon as they figured out the truth.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
If he hadn't had Tony Blair in the UK
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Date:
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3/19/2011 10:49:58 PM
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So you think the big O is responsible for consensus response to Libya?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
If he hadn't had Tony Blair in the UK
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Date:
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3/19/2011 11:08:22 PM
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hound ... you are sick. you are living the liberal dream ... you want to only believe what you think is true .... when it is not. so sad.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
If he hadn't had Tony Blair in the UK
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Date:
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3/20/2011 7:55:43 AM
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Yes, although I understand that Susan Rice, our Ambassador to the UN played a major role.
Who do you think is responsible for it?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hound finally admits Bush did it right in Iraq
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Date:
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3/20/2011 8:47:22 AM
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Yeah, its almost the EXACT same coalition that went into Iraq.....nice to hear you compliment W for his actions.
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You will never hear me compliment GWB about Iraq. NEVER. The whole war was built on a lie and the wrong headed beliefs of some neo-cons. The very limited coalition was built on a lie. Iraq was a huge mistake. History will prove me out.
But I don't expect you to believe me now. Wait and you'll see.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
NEVER
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Date:
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3/20/2011 1:33:49 PM
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So your belief now is based on the fact that this is justified war (or whatever you are going to call it?,) and Obama is a gifted, virtuous, and morally defined diplomat.
Really?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Now I am confused
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Date:
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3/20/2011 1:44:08 PM
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You praised the Messiah for assembling the exact same coalition that Bush did for the Iraq war.....so which is it? Are our coalition partners suddenly correct in joining the U.S. on this mission but not on the prior one or is it the other way around? You seemed to give credence to the validity of this action because of the coalition but not the Iraq war.
And please stop with the nonsensical Bush lied and people died talking points. You know full well that the majority of Democrats in the House and Senate committees saw all the same intelligence and said all the same things Bush did. You also know full well that they voted and approved what Bush did. You also know that they all stood by their votes until it became politically advantageous to refute their own actions. Your visceral hatred of Bush blinds you to the fact that you give a pass to the Democrats but refuse to do so for Bush. If you think his decision to invade Iraq was a mistake that is a fair point to debate. But don't hang that opinion on the "Bush lied" nonesense because the bipartisan commission that examined the intelligence failure leading up to the war exonerated Bush, Cheney, Powell, Clinton, Boxer and all the other warmongers that saw the faulty intelligence.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Now I am confused
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Date:
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3/20/2011 2:28:49 PM
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Ditto.
The president's actions in these circumstances are based on the information given to him (whether Obama or Bush), and the groundwork performed by others. We just need a guy who looks good in a suit and can remember the gist of the message.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Now I am confused
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Date:
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3/20/2011 9:17:23 PM
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Intelligence is a funny thing. It can be interpreted a number of ways, based on what one wants to see. Remember that a good portion of the "intelligence" was based on an previously unreliable source named Curveball. Did you see him on 60 Minutes? He admitted that he made it up. Furthermore, no American intelligence source ever met Curveball. He reported through a foreign source. His reports were not collaborated by other sources. Based on his (unreliable) reporting, movements of trucks around a certain factory were construed to have one meaning, but were later proved to be something completely different.
But you go ahead and cling to your beliefs. History will bear me out. There was an agenda and it had nothing to do with WMD or terrorists.
And no, I am not at all happy about Libya. Yes, Obama via Susan Rice has put together a coalition, but I think it is wrong headed for us to get involved. The situation in Libya has no significant national security threat on the US. It's just another example of opportunism. And yes, I do believe that Kadafi sponsors terrorism. It wouldn't surprise me to find out that he has been channeling financial support to Al Kayda. (sorry, my spelling skills seem to have abandoned me tonight)
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Now I am confused
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Date:
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3/20/2011 9:29:05 PM
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So, a humane :-), opportunistic Obama is better than a (qualifier of choice,) opportunistic Bush?
Ethics can be so messy.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Now I am confused
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Date:
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3/20/2011 9:55:32 PM
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And just so I get this right.....
Are you saying that Curveball was a planted setup to justify whatever decisions were made (obviously had already been planned, by your speculation,) and that Bush and his minions were aware and active participants in this grand facade, Mrs. Tallulahound Stone?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No, I'm not saying that
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Date:
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3/21/2011 8:55:19 AM
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First of all, I'm not saying an opportunistic Obama is better than an opportunistic Bush.
What I am saying is that there was an agenda with regard to the Middle East in general and Iraq in specifically. Elements of the Bush administration came in with the idea of taking Saddam out, and as a "great experiment" wouldn't it be great to create a "democracy" in Iraq to send a message to Iran and Syria. (Those are the real problems) I'm speculating that Bush was predisposed to hear them out, because he felt that his father let Saddam off the hook in the Gulf war (and Saddam tried to kill Bush 41). And it was known that Saddam was looking around the black market for the ingredients for WMD. (BTW, almost every "non-nuclear" nation or at least elements in those countries is rumored to be looking for the ingredients for WMD, has expressed interest in developing a nuclear weapon, and there is a legitimate fear that other countries will help them do it)
So it is suggested to the intelligence community by Tenet that the analysts focus on Iraq and WMD. The Brits report that they have been approached by a source who says that he worked in a "chemical weapons" plant in Iraq. Curveball had his own agenda when he went to the Brits. The intelligence community was skeptical about Curveball, since they couldn't collaborate it, but Tenet decided to run with it since it supported discussions.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
No, I'm not saying that
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Date:
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3/21/2011 9:50:54 AM
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And you have faith in your suspicions because of the logic of the situations, or because of bias?
I used "faith" purposefully.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No, I'm not saying that
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Date:
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3/21/2011 12:30:48 PM
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I have "faith" in my suspicions because I knew some of the players and some of the people working behind the scenes; and I have seen similar things happen. As we see every day, there is often very little logic in Washington. And when political appointees think they understand "what the old man wants", they will go to great lengths to impress him. No one wants to speak the truth to power, despite what they say in their sound bites.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
No, I'm not saying that
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Date:
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3/21/2011 1:20:48 PM
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But do you think Bush invaded Iraq with the knowledge that it was all a ruse?
Did all those people MM listed believe likewise?
You really hate someone here - who is it?
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I don't think Bush invaded knowing it was a ruse... I mean, who would have told him?
That the part about not speaking truth to power. But, I wonder if Bush, Rice and Powell shouldn't have been more skeptical about the sources. I know Powell was, yet he went forward. Tenet was bouncing off the walls. Rumsfelt wasn't listening. Lots of pressure on the intel analysts. And don't forget that Feith was so unhappy with their skepticism that he formed his own Intel cell (that was headed up by a former colleague of mine)
I think hate is too strong a word and it's not directed at any particular person (okay, maybe Feith and Wolfowitz. But there is also Richard Pearl and a few others. To me, they didn't understand what it would mean to commit human beings (i.e. soldiers) to an "idea" and "philosphy" they had.
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