| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Pres. O's Press Conference
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Date:
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2/10/2009 8:05:20 AM
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I think that I have heard this same speech at least 10 times. When will he start being truthful and state that the housing mess created by B. Franks , F. Mac., etc. were the catalyst for the current financial mess. Get off this concept that the last 8 yearss and the tax cuts were the only causes.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Pres. O's Press Conference
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Date:
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2/10/2009 1:37:34 PM
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You are 100% right. Tax cuts had nothing to do with the banking crisis. It is only to mislead the uninformed american public to get his wasteful agenda approved. The bank crisis as you pointed out had everything to do with the liberal policies to allow loans to those that really were not qualified on the basis that home prices would only go up. That created an inflationary housing bubble that burst as those people could not make payments. That had a ripple effect making a normal economic slow down after 6 solid years of growth, much worse.
Now he wants to say the crisis we are in are because of failed policies of tax cuts. We are still not as bad as what the Carter administration gave us with double digit unemployment and 18% interest rates and 12% inflation. Regan bailed us out of that and it was done cutting taxes that did create jobs and stimulate the economy. Not on the wasteful spending that Obama and the other liberal socialists in congress are proposing.
Look at the reaction on wall street to his speech and his new bank plan. It seems everytime Obama opens his mouth the market goes lower.
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| Name: |
Jim Dandy
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| Subject: |
Pres. O's Press Conference
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Date:
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2/10/2009 3:09:46 PM
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Now we have a banking proposal for another trillion (or two)rescue, plus the Economic Spending plan at $828B on top of the $750B TARP program. Wish someone could say where all that money is supposed to come from. Worse is when the Spending plan doesn't really stimulate the economy, they will be back for more.
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Sorry- Off Topic but,
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Date:
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2/10/2009 3:17:10 PM
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Did y'all realize how many times he said "uh." I don't know, maybe it's just me but, he certainly is not such an "Orator" without teleprompters. I know, picky, picky, picky.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Why should he?
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Date:
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2/10/2009 5:27:55 PM
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The media is in the tank for him and has lost all sense of proportionality and a hint of truthfulness. So we have the Wash Post asking the Messiah about A-Rod while our economy collapses and Dems in Congress make a lurch toward socialism.
He will never be held accountable. When this joke of a stimulus fails, and trust me it will, they will blame Bush. When the next round fails, and it will, they will blame Bush. By then it will be too late. If you look at federal spending as a % of gpd before and after the New Deal that spending never went away. Nor will this. We have just mortgaged our children and gransdchildren's prosperity.
I hate to be so negative but that's the way it is. By the time actual taxpayers realize what they did to themselves giving us Obama/Reid/Pelosi it will be too late.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Why should he?
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Date:
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2/10/2009 5:51:55 PM
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I understand your disgust, but truthfully, there is no guarentees that if McCain had been elected anything would be any better.
I think the truth is that no one knows definitively how to fix things.
It hardly seems to matter these days who is at fault or how we got here, but it is what it is and it's a mess.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Sorry- Off Topic but,
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Date:
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2/10/2009 6:21:41 PM
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Not picky at all. He does not know. This is where his 144 days of experience is showing. All he wants to keep saying is I inherited this problem, but will not admit what caused it. So and his liberal party is business as usual. Lets spend spend spend, tax tax tax ... keep blaming the republicans as they move the contry to socialism.
Many of us warned of this and it makes me sick and breaks my heart.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Why should he?
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Date:
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2/10/2009 6:30:53 PM
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I think we do know we would not have a BS spending plan that as Martini points out will not create the stimulus we need. This is only to get Obama and his liberal (socialist) party to get all these programs through under the false title of stimulus. Then they will be back that they need to do more.
Look at the mess Carter left the country in ... Regan put a stimulus program in place through tax cuts that actually worked. back then the dems were complaining that the tax cuts created deficits ... but not nearly the amount that Obama is creating and Regans plan actually worked and resulted in higher tax revenues to the government.
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| Name: |
cobra
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| Subject: |
Why should he?
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Date:
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2/10/2009 8:24:56 PM
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You forgot Barney Franks.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Why should he?
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Date:
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2/10/2009 8:47:08 PM
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Okay, but there is no way to know that tax cuts are going to work now. I think there is some validity in saying that we've had 8 years of tax cuts and we're still here. Yes, there is a housing crisis, but it's not the only crisis. There is the banking crisis too. And the confidence crisis.
I think you can have all the tax cuts in the world right now, but unless the banking is fixed and people gain confidence enough to buy, there isn't going to be job creation. In fact, it might be progress at the moment to just stop the job bleed. Companies are restructuring (those that are not going bankrupt) and jobs are being lost. You are not going to convince me that tax cuts are going to stop that, when part of the problem is that there isn't much consumer demand.
As far as the liberal agenda, yeah, there may be some of that, but it's not the whole bill. I have to agree with Obama --
don't let "perfect" beome the enemy of good. And I stand on my position that the Republicans can't be sure their approach is going to work either. We're in uncharted waters.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
this shows your ignorance
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Date:
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2/10/2009 9:58:15 PM
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By seperating the 'housing crisis' and the 'banking crisis' you show that you do not understand the root cause of the problems we are facing. The housing crisis IS the banking crisis, to use the term crisis VERY LOOSELY. The housing crisis was brought about by dems forcing banks to make bad loans, end of story. Now the banks 'chickens are coming home to roost'. But it is really the democrats chickens, not the banks.
Less than 1% of mortgages are in distress. How does this constitute a crisis? They have authorized spending enough money to PAY OFF over 90% of ALL mortgages, but we the taxpayers may get $1000 check IF the one thinks we deserve it.
And not understanding how tax cuts stimulate the economy just shows more ignorance. You claim you have an MBA but can't understand this concept? I will type slow so maybe you can get it. The governemnt spending my money on their pet projects doesn't stumulate a thing for me, or anyone else, EXCEPT whoever get THAT contract. I can assure you I won't get any of it. I won't even qualify for a stimulus because I am single and have a job and no dependents.
Now a tax cut, THAT would stimulate me and anyone else who pays taxes. It would put MORE MONEY IN MY POCKET. The $1000 checks will get spent true enough. It will show a small blip on the retail radar for a breif moment. No business is going to expand because the owners know that it is a one time anomaly, not a sustained increase in business that he can count on month after month. Now a tax cut puts money in all pockets paycheck after paycheck. Money that will get spent. Money that will cause businesses to expand becuase not only is his business growing, but his tax liabillity is shrinking.
Where did you get that MBA?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Response to help you
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Date:
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2/11/2009 6:08:38 AM
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We do know that tax cuts have stimulated the economy and caused businesses to invest that also creates jobs. Small businesses are the biggest job creators and guess what the dems would not agree to that the republicans wanted .... yup investment tax credit for small businesses that Bush had in his tax cut that is proven to work and create jobs. Odd the liberals would not go along with helping small businesses and an area that will create jobs.
I believe the answer why they the dems did not want to support is that many high income earners are also small business earners and since the dems want to limit peoples income and redistribute wealth they would not go along.
The thing with tax cuts .... as swimmer pointed out, that creates confidence and gets people spending and buying larger items like cars because they feel richer and know it is coming in every pay check vs a one time check to a select few. That is why tax cuts at higher income levels work because they are the biggest spenders and already the largest share of taxes.
Most tax cuts for business ONLY come about if they invest, which by default creates jobs. No investment, no tax credit. So I guess you are partially right that they could approve tax cuts and no one still spends money and businesses do not invest to get the tax credit .... but highly unlikely.
The key is tax cuts have been proven to work ... the Obama spending plan has proven not to work. The bank crisis compounded the recession after 6 years of growth. But tax cuts did not cause the bank crisis ... that was caused by bad policy put in place by the democrats.
One last thing ... when Bush's tax cuts worked and created jobs, all the dems were saving they were low income jobs (which now we know that they were not) ... but I wonder what the dems will say about any jobs created from this BS spending plan. Do you think the 4 million jobs that will not be created are all thought to be middle income jobs?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Please tell me
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Date:
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2/11/2009 9:19:58 AM
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you don't blame tax cuts for the current economic crisis! Please tell me you are not that deluded. Everyone, except possibly you, understands that the source of the current economic crisis is the housing meltdown and everyone knows that the meltdown was caused by government distortion of the markets through the CHA and Fannie/Freddie. I believe you have in previous posts even acknowledged that.
If you are so certain that tax cuts caused this tell me how. Explain to me in detail how letting Americans keep more of their own money caused this crisis. Did it make them unable to pay their mortgages? It seems to me it made them more able. How does denying money to the Federal government cause housing prices to decline?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
It worked with Reagan
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Date:
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2/11/2009 9:22:13 AM
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after the disastrous Carter. It worked with Kennedy. It worked with W after 9/11.
Tell me when in all of history government spent its way to prosperity.
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| Name: |
PikeSki
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| Subject: |
Pres. O's Press Conference
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Date:
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2/11/2009 3:20:45 PM
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Even Biden (crooked little politician that he is) admitted the other day in an interview that best estimates are that this entire 1 trillion dollar plan has a 30+ percent chance of completely failing. A 30 percent chance that after we spend over 1 trillion dollars and hand it over to just a few companies that it will have no effect on stimulating the economy at all.
Now if you believe that no matter what this plan will work because of the genius of our politicians and new leader . . . please send me 100% of your next paycheck and I will gaurentee that there is a 60% chance that I will give it back to you.
This is the most stupid plan that has ever been shoved down the american publics throats. We have experts in economics all over the country that have said this can never work. This whole plan is nothing more than the dems lining their pockets and some of their close personal freinds...but you get to pay for it out of your paycheck for the rest of your life.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I'm not convinced
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Date:
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2/11/2009 6:22:02 PM
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But okay, have it your way. And if that doesn't work, then what? I'm just not convinced that tax cuts are the only solution. My gut feeling is that this is "conventional" wisdom and I think we need new thinking.
Experts have said that this situation is not like ANY other situtaion we have had since the 1930's and does not resemble any other recession that we have had in recent history. So I'm not at all sure that doing what we've always done is going to solve the problem.
I'm not in favor of any particular plan at this point. I'm digusted with Congress yet again holding hearings with bank executives to beat them up about bonus and how they used the money. What a waste of time. It's done. Why didn't Congress take the time to build better parameters for use of the money instead of spending their time with their faces in front of the cameras when they had the chance?
And I think the country would be better served if Obama stayed in Washington and worked his charms on bringing together a bipartisan bill instead of traveling around being folksy. I no longer am interested in hearing what either he or Congress INTENDs to do. Just do it.
And as disgusted I am by Pelosi and company, I'm equally disgusted by the Republicans who are just folding arms and not trying to get anything done. It's all just politics as usual.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Obama misses
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Date:
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2/11/2009 7:47:50 PM
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campaigning that is why he is traveling around. He needs to realize he has the job ... now do something.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Pres. O's Press Conference
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Date:
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2/11/2009 7:49:30 PM
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Come on ... you don't think Acorn will create jobs to stimulate the economy with all the money they get.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Obama misses
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Date:
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2/11/2009 8:29:07 PM
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Sorry to say you may be right. It's so much easier to talk about doing something than to actually do it.
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| Name: |
Swimmer27
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| Subject: |
Obama misses
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Date:
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2/12/2009 7:51:27 AM
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When everything is said and done, there is always a lot more said than done!!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Do you realize
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Date:
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2/12/2009 11:48:48 AM
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that Republicans have made numerous proposals, offered alternate legislation, have been tossed from conference meetings, etc.? Probably not because you get your news from the mainstream media. Republicans have been fighting tooth and nail for some real stimulus amongst the pork.
Obama tells them "I won". So much for post partisanship. Pelosi doesn't allow them to participate in conference meetings. So don't tell me Republicans are just folding their arms and doing nothing. If you don't believe me do a little research on line. And yes, you are going to have to get this information from the alternate media because the MM is in the tank but that doesn't mean it isn't true.
It was like when I referred to National Review's fine work on all the pork in the stimulus bill and you dismissed it because they are "right wing". That doesn't make what they say untrue and you could easily verify it if you had the intellectual curiosity rather than just dismissing it because of the source.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You got me Wrong
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Date:
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2/12/2009 6:06:47 PM
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I didn't dismiss the National Review article. It is an interesting article. I just thought it fair to state that it is a very conservative magazine. I would do the same if it was a liberal magazine.
And maybe the Republicans are being dismissed from meetings etc, but I don't see them making public solid alternative legislation. If they are, then they need to take their case to the American people. Every time I see them, they are with folded arms and being negative. I just don't think that is helpful, any more than I think the Pelosi contingent is helpful.
As far as Obama saying "we won". Well, they did. And I assume he is frustrated with being lectured to by the Republicans, just as I supect that they aren't really trying compromise and come up with something that will work. Is that the way I want to see my government run? No. I pretty much disgusted with all of them.
Politicians can act as childish and parochial as any 5 year old.
The thing is this, when people aren't getting your message, you either find another message or you change your method of delivery. The sad truth is that while everyone pays lip service to "thinking outside the box" (as trite and overused as that is), the fact is that no one really wants to do that. They want to stay in their comfort zone. Remember shifting contextual paradigms? You paradigm usually gets shifted from outside not from within.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You got me Wrong
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Date:
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2/13/2009 3:03:21 PM
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Sorry if I misunderstood your comments about the National Review. As more facts about this bill come out and wasteful, pork-filled spending in it the more measured the article seems.
As for the Republicans not taking their case to the American people you have proved my point about the mainstream media. As I said in my post they offered competing legislation which was rejected. How can they take their case to the American people? Through the media which refuses to carry their message because they disagree. How do I know they offered alternate legislation? Through the alternate media which has limited distribution and by virtue of you not even knowing about it obviously does not reach you.
It is what it is and they will get what they want because they have the votes and time will tell as to whether they are repeating the errors of the New Deal and will get the same results. I believe they are and they will.
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