| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Obama May Bypass Congress to Let Illegals Stay
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Date:
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6/25/2010 7:08:05 AM
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What happens if this is done by Obama? 10 - 15M new voters; cost to education; healthcare; etc.
Fox: Obama May Bypass Congress to Let Illegals Stay
Thursday, 24 Jun 2010 10:17 PM Article Font Size
The Obama administration has been holding behind-the-scenes talks to determine whether the Department of Homeland Security can unilaterally grant legal status on a mass basis to illegal immigrants, according to Fox News.
The source for this bombshell – which could ignite a national uproar given that a majority supports tougher laws against illegals – is an unidentified former Bush administration official who spoke with at least three people involved in those talks.
The issue was raised publicly by eight Republican senators who wrote to the White House on Monday to complain that they had heard the administration was readying a "Plan B" in case a comprehensive immigration reform bill cannot win enough support to clear Congress, according to Fox.
The White House would not confirm or deny the claim. But the former Bush official said the discussions are real.
"The administration at the very minimum is studying legal ways to legalize people without having to go through any congressional debate about it," the source said, calling the senators' claim credible. "Whether somebody pulls the trigger on that, that's another issue."
The senators -- Chuck Grassley, R-Iowa; Orrin Hatch, R-Utah; David Vitter, R-La.; Jim Bunning, R-Ky.; Saxby Chambliss, Ga.; Johnny Isakson, R-Ga.; James Inhofe, R-Okla.; and Thad Cochran, R-Miss. -- claimed in their letter that the administration was looking at extending what is known as deferred action or parole to millions of illegal aliens in the United States.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Obama May Bypass Congress to Let Illegals Stay
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Date:
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6/25/2010 8:09:59 AM
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I have no doubt this is true. Refer to my post below that Obama is not a fool. He will do what is necessary reguardless of what the american people want to achieve his agenda and overwhelm the economy. He only sees this as votes for him and his socialist counterparts.
The man is downright scary and it is surprising that anyone with any intelligence can continue to support and back the man if they believe in capitalism and freedom.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Obama May Bypass Congress to Let Illegals Stay
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Date:
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6/25/2010 12:55:24 PM
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I certainly would not support such an amnesty program.
The estimates of illegals range from 11-20 million. How do you ID and deport that many people? What do you do with the children who were born here and are US citizens? We could simply deport them too. But, suppose the Ppresident of Mexico said we can only allow 5,000 US citizens to move to Mexico per year. Now what do you do with the kids and their parents?
We are still fighting a war in Iraq where the people were going to welcome us with open arms. Can you visualize bands of guerillas here in the USA avoiding deportation?
Does the Right have a viable solution that is not simply deport them?
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Obama May Bypass Congress to Let Illegals Stay
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Date:
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6/25/2010 1:15:35 PM
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Have you looked at Mexico's Immigration laws? Why don't we just mirror theirs? Yeah, that would work!
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 11:03:18 AM
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Obama is downright scary. No wonder he did not care what the american people thought when the forced healthcare down our throats ... he had 12 millions illeals that would be ready to vote for him when he adds them to the SS roles, healthcare, etc.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=169837
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 5:34:02 PM
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The articles are great. Does Limbauh or Pat or you have a viable solution to the 11-20 million who are here. Why did this Senator not sign the letter? I may have missed the Right's solution. Not the Arizona one but the 11-20 million one.
http://tucsoncitizen.com/yadapolitics/2010/06/25/mccain-didnt-sign-a-letter-hayworth-thought-he-should/
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 7:00:51 PM
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One think I can tell you ... it is not rewarding those that are here illegally with citizenship that many people have worked hard to achieve. There is a legal way to citizenship and the Az approach seems to be the enforcement we need.
As others have said ... why not just adopt what other countries do with illegals ... why are we so soft? Why would anyone want to reward the right of citizenship and overwhelm our system with up to 20 million illegals unless it is politically motivated for control and power. What would it accomplish? Would it stop illegals coming in? If the word is out do you think it would encourage more illegals.
Whether there is a perfect answer or not .... granting citizenship and amnesty is NOT then answer. My choice would be strick enforcement of laws that exist rather than suing a state that is choosing to protect their own border since the US is not. That is a state right as long as it does not restrict a federal law. Feds are to protect them coming in illegally ... AZ law is once they are in their state.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 8:46:19 PM
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Is there really any accurate, expeditious way to identify an individual in this country? I thought that was the purpose of a social security number (at least for governmental purposes.) It seems that there is an infrastructure (or at least a plan/concept) in place for this critical first step, but the government can't pull off the execution (how ironic is that word?)
If needed, you can get a new SSN very quickly - at least that is what my Mexican friends tell me, and it will work at least as long as takes for any one to question it, not that many people do.........
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 10:33:32 PM
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It may be time for the state of Ga to enact the Az law, since the AJC has confirmed there are more illegals in Ga now than there are in AZ! What you say GF..........ready for some bipartianship on a critical issue that affects just about all of the crucial problems we face today?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/26/2010 11:28:07 PM
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First, I am not a resident of Georgia so they can enact any law that is constitutional. Why not a law that when stopped EVERYONE has to prove citizenship? When applying to attend college EVERYONE has to prove citizenship? When registering your boat EVEVERONE has to prove citizenship. I don't support illegals. I just ask and you nor WW has answered the question of how do you round up 11-20 million and deport them?
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/27/2010 12:03:40 AM
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My point is that everytime I participated in one of those examples you listed, I assumed that the idenitification I gave - DOB, address, SSN (and that is the government assigned unique identifier - cradle to grave) was verified. An un-enforced rule is not really a rule. I support you proposal 100%.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/27/2010 12:09:07 AM
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As far as deporting 20 million people, the first step is the decision to deport 20 million people. After that it is just details - we can read about it after the bill gets passed. :)
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/27/2010 7:17:29 AM
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GF
Sounds like a good idea to me. I have a birth certificate, drivers license, SS number and SS card and carry auto registration and proof of insurance in my cars.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Good article on this
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Date:
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6/27/2010 7:50:57 AM
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Illegals have been known to get "fake" SS cards ... the feds created a very good system that they do not require every business to use, but they should ... it is called e-verify. It tells you instantly if the SS # is valid and what the correct name is associated with it.
There is a simple answer to with all these complaints about having to carry papers. Everyone is required to carry a DL if they drive and you are suppose to carry an ID reguardless. So why not have states verify citizenship and mark your DL. For people that do not drive, make it mandatory that you have a state or federal issued ID that does the same. They require babies now to get SS#'s. What is the big deal about having to carry a proper ID. How is that any violation of rights.
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Fish, you don't round up the people and deport them ... we all agree there is not a simple answer. But granting automatic citizen ship should not be one of them. Why reward someone for breaking the law. It will not fix the problem or stop more illegals from coming in.
But doing things like AZ says we are not going to allow the disrespect for our boders any longer. Additionally AZ is not doing random checks, only if you are stopped for another reason will they ask for proof. No different than you or I if we get stopped for speeding or violation of some other law.
This should be an example for all states. There will still and always be people that choose to come in illegally and run the risk ... but you start to have a result if they do and get caught. Over time, more will follow the right procedure or go back.
Try being in Mexico illegally and break a law and see what happens to you ... for that matter, pretty much any other country. Yet our president is going to sue a state for trying to enforce the law the feds have failed to enforce.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Why Not This Approach
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Date:
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6/27/2010 10:28:52 AM
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Due to the high incidence of passport fraud using Puerto Rico birth certificates, the government of Puerto Rico is implementing a law effective July 1, 2010, that will invalidate all Puerto Rico birth certificates issued before that date.
Until June 30, 2010, all Puerto Rico birth certificates will remain valid. On July 1, 2010, Puerto Rico will begin issuing new birth certificates which will incorporate new technology to limit forgery.
It would also satisfy the Right whether or not Obama was born in Hawaii.
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Why Not This Approach
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Date:
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6/27/2010 12:53:47 PM
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I don't think the RIGHT would be satisfied until that Hawaiian birth certificate (original) was passed around for everyone's inspection. Giving him a new one at this point would only raise more suspicions...... But it is a good idea going forward for the next Obama.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
GF..............
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Date:
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6/27/2010 8:15:03 PM
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You have asked a fair question " how do you round up 11-20 million illegals and deport them?", and my partial answer is quite simply..........we do what the small multi-island nation of the Bahamas has done for years. You see, they have a a much worse problem than does the US (because of their small 300,000+ population vs the illegals)........the Hatians (and lately some Chinese so I hear) overwhelm their coastal defenses on a continuous basis, so they simply catch them as they come in or once caught later, the Hatians are put in temp holding areas and then deported back to thier home. So, for us that would mean one at the time if necessary til all are rolled up. No need for WWII type hysteria or gestapo approach , but a firm, humane and effective protection of the integrity of our borders just as any sane soverign country would do. The next thing the Bahamian Gov't does is to strictly control the legal travel of visitors........when you fly in or arrive you must state where you are staying and for how long, and they control the employment issue. It is not easy to be gainfully employed there, but it is possible, but only with a work permit that can be costly and must be renewed on an annual basis. I know of a major Danish investor who over the years has invested millions of $$ and until one year ago had no problem renewing his permit........but he is no longer able to serve as CEO of a local company because he got cross ways of some politicians.........a small nation like that has a simple answer......control the process by enforcing the laws. The politicians there haven't gotten so craven and power hungry yet so as to put their own personal advancement over that of their country as ours have here. If that little country with very limited resources can take it on, maybe just maybe we can find or elect enough smart people to do their job also. It would help if we all didn't make this so complicated.
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
GF..............
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Date:
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6/27/2010 8:18:33 PM
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You have asked a fair question " how do you round up 11-20 million illegals and deport them?", and my partial answer is quite simply..........we do what the small multi-island nation of the Bahamas has done for years. You see, they have a a much worse problem than does the US (because of their small 300,000+ population vs the illegals)........the Hatians (and lately some Chinese so I hear) overwhelm their coastal defenses on a continuous basis, so they simply catch them as they come in or once caught later, the Hatians are put in temp holding areas and then deported back to thier home. So, for us that would mean one at the time if necessary til all are rolled up. No need for WWII type hysteria or gestapo approach , but a firm, humane and effective protection of the integrity of our borders just as any sane soverign country would do. The next thing the Bahamian Gov't does is to strictly control the legal travel of visitors........when you fly in or arrive you must state where you are staying and for how long, and they control the employment issue. It is not easy to be gainfully employed there, but it is possible, but only with a work permit that can be costly and must be renewed on an annual basis. I know of a major Danish investor who over the years has invested millions of $$ and until one year ago had no problem renewing his permit........but he is no longer able to serve as CEO of a local company because he got cross ways of some politicians.........a small nation like that has a simple answer......control the process by enforcing the laws. The politicians there haven't gotten so craven and power hungry yet so as to put their own personal advancement over that of their country as ours have here. If that little country with very limited resources can take it on, maybe just maybe we can find or elect enough smart people to do their job also. It would help if we all didn't make this so complicated.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Ruddie
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Date:
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6/28/2010 8:40:22 PM
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We actually agree.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Been on vacation with no internet....but I'm back
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Date:
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6/29/2010 11:28:00 AM
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I know I am late to the game but having read this thread I wanted to throw my ideas into to mix. While deporting 10-12 million illegals has a lot of appeal it is probably not reasonable to expect that we could do it or even get the political will on either side of the isle to even contemplate such a move. Everyone wants those hispanic votes and even GOP politicians pander to them despite not much success.
I am for a tiered approach to resolving this problem. The first tier is to focus on making it much harder to illegally enter the U.S., particularly on the border with Mexico. We should use a combination of physical and electronic barriers to make it much more difficult to get in. That will take time and we should start now. It won't be perfect but even stemming the flow into the country will be a good start. Make it incredibly hard to do and very costly when they get caught to reduce the flow.
The second tier is to focus on deporting the worst of the worst. Drug dealers, gang members, any illegal convicted on a crime regardless of where they come from. Yes, it is nearly impossible to deport 10 million but much easier to deport 500,000 to 600,000. Still not easy but that should be a focus in the short run.
Third, we have got to eliminate conferring citizenship to anyone born in the country. That will eliminate the anchor babies and make our laws consistent with every other country in the world.
As to how to deal with the remaining illegals here I am of the view that the best way to handle this is through what I call "voluntary deportation". What I mean by that is we make life here in the U.S. no longer attractive to them so they voluntarily go home. How that is accomplished is probably complicated and multi-faceted but here are some ideas. We have got to make it very difficult for them to access taxpayer-paid services while they are here. We have got to make it incredibly hard for them to find and keep work, probably through a combination of employer sanctions, some form of proof of citizenship, etc. If we start sending employers to prison for long terms and not just slaps on the wrist they will think twice about hiring illegals. The first time we send the CEO of Tyson Foods to 5 years in a federal penitentiary for hiring illegals we will start to get the attention. I think we should also start to arrest people who hire day laborers. Make it really painful for a company to hire illegals. We also need to offer amnesty to illegals once we secure the border. And by that I mean we will allow them to easily go home. We also have to make it nearly impossible for them to send money back to Mexico. I can assure you if the gringo dollars stop flowing south of the border they will lose all interest in supporting illegals headed up north. I don't know how you can accomplish this but it would be very helpful. We also need to make it very difficult for them to thrive here unless they speak English. This will apply to all nationalities and not just hispanics. I would make English the official language and not allow any other languages to be used by federal, state or local government except in the immigration process.
Again, none of these suggestions will be easy or perfect and there are probably a lot better ways to accomplish the voluntary deportation than I have listed but that should be our overall goal. I do know that when our economy went sour there was a lot of voluntary deportation because it was no longer economically attractive to be here. We need to use this reality to our advantage. My final thought is we need to improve the process for those who wish to enter the country legally and can make a positive contribution to our nation.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Been on vacation with no internet....but I'm back
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Date:
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6/29/2010 2:34:35 PM
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A well written and thoughtful post. Welcome back.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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...but I'm back
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Date:
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6/29/2010 5:44:17 PM
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Yes! Very well stated.
Make it incredibly uncomfortable to stay. Make it a felony to hire illegal workers. Deny benefits and services to illegals.
Make it attractive and more efficient to immigrate legally. (Go home. Line up a US sponsor. Come back on a green-card. Learn how to speak English. Prepare to become a citizen.)
AND CLOSE THE POROUS BORDER!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Even a blind squirrel
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Date:
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6/29/2010 9:02:37 PM
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finds an acorn now and then. Good to be back if only for a couple of days and then off to Lake Martin for the 4th and then to Houston on business. By the way, just spoke to a friend at St. George Island on vacation and no oil there as yet.
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| Name: |
mspro
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| Subject: |
Been on vacation with no internet....but I'm back
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Date:
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7/5/2010 1:04:07 PM
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Hey that illegal immagration article was very well thought up and I agree with you 100%!
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