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Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/11/2009 8:06:51 PM

If this Forum is in any way representative of how other areas of the US are feeling, then we are indeed into deep DooDoo.
Even some of the pre-election "liberals" are beginning to question the situation. And, none of the proposed solutions are being "swallowed" easily, per an earlier post from the esteemed NY Times.
It makes me very uncomfortable for the US to be in this crisis with unknown "Groups" out there waiting for a chance to attack both a weak and vulnerable population and, more urgent, a new and untested President.

Name:	lakngulf -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/11/2009 8:59:37 PM

I agree. The plan seems so far out there, in cost and in possibility of helping. How can so many of us be so wrong?

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/11/2009 9:21:49 PM

Chill Mack..

I was round for the Carter administration.. Had a 14% home mortage, saw double digit unemploment, slashing of the military budget, gas rationing, a hostage crisis and debacle in the desert..

Might not be that bad yet, but we are less than a month into the new administration.

Maybe my grand kids can afford the multi-trillion dollar debt and just maybe they will like socialism..

But in the meantime, let's chill and 'hope for change.'

Name:	cobra -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/11/2009 9:42:08 PM

It is easy for you to say chill. Tell those Alabama people that have lost their jobs and in danger of losing their homes. This is real, not a joke. It is not like anything we have seen in the past. The so called recession in the early 80's was never like think. Russell had at least 10,000 people working in AC then. Ask around how many are working their now. Better yet go out and look for a job and see what is out there. I think you may just be shocked. This is only the beginning. It will get much worse in the next 4 years. I am retirement age and not in any debt. I am probably way in the low % of the average person in that area. I was taught at a very early age not to buy something unless I could pay for it. You know that is really common sense.
cobra

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Some historical perspective
Date:	2/11/2009 9:55:36 PM

I think we do need to keep some historical perspective here and recognize that we don't yet have 10%-15% unemployment, 10%+ interest rates and all the problems we had under Carter. And that doesn't even begin to touch what happened in the 1930's, circumstances that are unimaginable today. My Mom, who lived through the depression scoffs when she hears the Messiah talk about this being the worst economy of our lifetimes. Heck, its not even the worst of his although apparently he wasn't paying attention and has never read a history book.

I am beginning to suspect that the perception that things are as bad or worse than we had under Carter is we have a President and leadership in Congress that have waited 40 years for a crisis while they were in control of the government to enact many of their big government socialist programs and they are not going to let this opportunity pass by. They are fanning the flames of fear and anxiety to attempt to drum up public support for this pork-filled, big government alleged stimulus plan that is not going to work and only going to screw our children and grandchildren out of their prosperity.

And the voters let this happen despite the pleas of those of us with more common sense.......

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	Some historical perspective
Date:	2/11/2009 10:03:13 PM

Good Grief,

Can't believe the irony of my post was missed.. things under carter sucked.. we are headed down the same road.. the legislature in washington is a loose cannon and the guy holding the tiller doesn't have a clue.. we will make it, but don't count on washington to do it for you..

Name:	cobra -	Reply
Subject:	Some historical perspective
Date:	2/11/2009 10:24:13 PM

I don’t have a preconceived notion of our country’s destiny, but I’m getting a bad feeling about the track we are on. Based on the foolish actions of most politicians in Washington over the last thirty years, I fear for the future of our country. I don’t think the politicians in Washington comprehend the state of affairs. I sense the mood of the country turning. Fear, anger and disillusionment are the prevalent themes. Change is coming, but it is not the change that Barack Obama campaigned for. It will be forced upon us by circumstances beyond any one person’s control.

Name:	cobra -	Reply
Subject:	Some historical perspective
Date:	2/11/2009 10:53:41 PM

For those who never knew this, then go here and read .
Also click on the youtube link and listen.

http://seekingalpha.com/article/119619-how-the-world-almost-came-to-an-end-on-september-18-2008?source=article_sb_popular

Name:	Swimmer27 -	Reply
Subject:	He read history and biography'
Date:	2/12/2009 7:59:37 AM

He read all about Karl Mrx, Sol Alinsky (sp), Che Guereva (sp), Lennon, and all the other good communist, marxist and fascists.

Name:	Webmaster -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/12/2009 2:17:59 PM

A friend of mine sent me the chart (below). If this is an accurate representation of reality, then I feel it will be a long turnaround that will last several years. As they are saying on the news, I also feel pumping money into the system for these projects will provide jobs for a short term... We upgrade our infrastructure, make buildings more efficient, then what happens as those projects end? More lay-offs again because funding is gone. There is going to be so much inefficiency in management of these projects too because it's "free" money.

As for stimulus, the average American will likely not spend a lot on consumer goods and unnecessary services, even with the new jobs. They will probably, or should anyway, pay off credit cards and other kinds of debt they've accumulated. That will pump up the banks a bit but doesn't do much for other business sectors to provide more jobs.

Since more manufacturing and high-tech jobs now go to low wage earners (offshore), more and more people are going to have to suck up the fact that they will probably not be able to do in the future what they've done in the past for a career. I'm seeing people out of work now look only in their career area, but the pickings are slim and not much is there.

On the other side, A friend of mine left last night for DC to interview with an IT recruiter that claims there will be a lot of money soon for various IT companies. It will be interesting to see if these IT companies hire H1-B visa holders and outsource functions offshore... My guess is they will unless there are provisions to prohibit it. If you don't know about H1-B visa's, they are supposed to be used to hire foreigners on-shore when there is a vacancy of specialized knowledge in a particular field. However, I've seen first-hand how this is abused under the guise of lack of people with specialized knowledge but really used because labor is cheaper (not the intent of the program). It's a sad world we live in.

URL: What 3.6 Million Jobs Lost Over 13 Months Looks Like

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Serious Times Here
Date:	2/12/2009 5:53:45 PM

Regarding the job loss, I have been noting how many small companies seem to be quietly laying off 200-300 people in the last few months. I know a number of people from two other forums who have been laid off over the last couple of months or are just barely hanging on to their businesses.
My sister who still works for the government reads the Early Bird diligently (it's a daily collection of media articles about DoD and things that relate to DoD) and told me that everything she is reading is leading her to conclude that big cutbacks are coming in defense -- and that will affect defense companies and the myriad of supplies, vendors and other support contractors.

Even with stimulus and new job creation, I tend to agree that people will not be spending. I dont' think that the confidence is there anymore and will likely not be there for quite a while. My feeling is that a lot of people have been hit with some truths a lot of us have known -- that you can't live above your means indefinitely.

Name:	cobra -	Reply
Subject:	Some historical perspective
Date:	2/13/2009 7:14:55 AM

MartiniMan, note sure about you but I was around and working during the Carter years and way before. The Lake Martin area did not suffer like people are now. Russell was going full steam ahead and jobs were plentiful. Robinson foundry was going full ahead, Madix in Goodwater was hiring and growing and the list goes on. I never remember anything like what is out there today.

Maybe you have a secure job and are set for the easy life but many others are not. I do not believe much of the media hype but I can see myself and what I see now is no way in comparison with times back then. I think people in their 30's and early 40’s have been taught to spend what you can and worry about paying later. That in one of the reasons our country is in a mess.

I remember 35 years ago seeing old trucks pulling small boats down highway 280 heading to the lake for a day of fun. Today take a look today. The boats cost twice what I paid for my home and the truck pulling it? Just my thought. I hope this country stops going south soon.

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