| Name: |
rock
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/20/2007 7:27:44 PM
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If the water can hold now at 480 for the last month or what ever how come it can't hold at 486 like back in early June.
It's hot no rain evaporation etc. What's the deal?
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| Name: |
sagetek
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| Subject: |
Darn Good Question
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Date:
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8/20/2007 7:36:13 PM
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Good Question; don't think the Governors help made that much difference.
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| Name: |
Osms
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| Subject: |
APCo shut.
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Date:
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8/20/2007 9:15:05 PM
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off the afternoon turbines exercise.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 8:07:55 AM
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In the first part of the summer Lake Martin bore the brunt of the discharges to maintain flow in rivers south of the lake. What happened was the Governor of Alabama finally wrote a letter to the Corps of Engineer (COE)complaining about the lack of discharge from several Georgia lakes (i.e., Allatoona, etc.). The COE agreed to increase discharges so Lake Martin could reduce its discharges by 10% or so which is enough to maintain the water level as is. Presumably if we get more rain it is possible that the levels could go up but who knows if that will happen.
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| Name: |
rainbow slough
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 10:48:13 AM
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Please don't tell me we are going to start bashing Riley just because the water level is steady! The real problem is that apco did not begin raising the level early enough. Back in the first week of march/last week of february, the level was 3' below the norm. No one can predict weather extreems like we are seeing, but we were not in a drought situation at the time and apco continued to release. Check the gragh for march. Don't say Riley didn't act soon enough, he acted when it was critical which is good government. Were it not for the governor, we would be at the mid 470's right now and facing a more probable low 2008.
I don't know at what level the water has to be before apco can no longer make electricity, but I do know that those extra days of power generation back in the spring have cost us a lot of water.
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| Name: |
PillPipe
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 11:39:06 AM
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"but I do know that those extra days of power generation back in the spring have cost us a lot of water."
I think everybody should dedicate themselves to spending an entire weekend at the lake without using electricity. No air conditioner, no fans, no lights, no stoves, no TV, and so on. Maybe refrigerators would be okay, so that food wouldn't be ruined.
Everybody is so dependant on electricity but they never stop to realize that it isn't free, and in some cases it costs water, not dollars.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 4:41:03 PM
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I dont't think anyone was bashing Riley. While it may be true that if he had acted earlier the drop in water levels would be less than we have seen but I for one am grateful that he acted at all. You are exactly right that if he hadn't sent that letter we would be in the mid-470s, especially since the drought has deepened in August. Hindsight is 20/20 and no one should blame him for the extreme drought....it could have eased up in late July and water levels would be up and all this would be moot, but that didn't happen. I don't know much about the spring drop as a result of power generation but APCO operates the dam per its FERC permit and if it called for power generation then thats what they do.
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| Name: |
Tbone
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 4:43:59 PM
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If I remember correctly, Riley had made other attempts with the Core of Engineers to get the issue resolved and had been give assurances by the Core that they would start dropping the water level on Altoona lake in Ga. He finally just had to take it to the press & rattle some cages, to get action.
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| Name: |
rainbow slough
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 4:48:57 PM
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I was simply pointing out that before all the drought problems occured, apco did not follow their own rule of level in the early spring and as a result we did not have the the typical water rise at the time. As for free electricity, the power that martin dam gereates is used over a huge power grid with the excess sold off to co-ops and others. I don't think I ever said generating electricity, or profits, was a bad thing. They simply did not begin raising the water when they should have, again, by their own rule.
My beef was with people complaining that the governor did not get involved soon enough.
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| Name: |
rainbow slough
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/21/2007 5:17:49 PM
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My point is that they didn't begin raising the water level as early as they should have. By their rule, lake level on say march 1st should be 483.4; in 2007, it was 480.5. There was no shortage of rainfall at the time. If you go back the last 2 years, the level at this time was within .5' of the rule, not the 3' it was this year. By the end of march they were 4' shy of the rule. By memorial day, when everybody started complaining, it had peaked to the seasons high at 4.5' below full pool.
Bottom line, if apco had followed the rule of level they set, we would have at least 3 feet more than we do today.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
Huh??
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Date:
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8/21/2007 10:40:12 PM
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You said "There was no shortage of rainfall at the time."
By "this time," did you mean 2004?
This drought didn't just start this spring!
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| Name: |
8hcap
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| Subject: |
Huh??
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Date:
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8/22/2007 8:26:31 AM
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for once we agree - this drought started early summer 2006.
8
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
Huh??
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Date:
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8/22/2007 8:42:16 AM
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This drought started on March 31, 1948.
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| Name: |
dvine
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| Subject: |
water level
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Date:
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8/22/2007 10:10:00 AM
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Ga. releasing or holding water has no effect on Martin. There are no dams in Ga. on the Tallapoosa River.
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
Huh??
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Date:
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8/22/2007 10:45:02 AM
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....meant to add on 12:53 PM (Mar. 31, 1948)
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
Divine Actually It Does
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Date:
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8/22/2007 11:27:12 AM
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Martin is required under federal mandate to release a certain amount of water everyday for down stream navigation, etc. to the AL River.
By having GA release water from Allatoona through the Coosa River system to feed the AL River, Martin was able to cut back on its required daily release requirements. That is one of the reasons Martin has been able to hold its current water level without harldy any rain.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
APCO doesn't set the "rule"
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Date:
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8/22/2007 12:13:14 PM
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The rule curve is set by the FERC, NOT APCO. So they follow their rules. The 'plug' was put in on Feb 17th, and the state was already several inches below normal for rainfall. someone said there was no shortage back then, but the facts tell a different story. Also, APCO generated less hydro power in March of this year than ever before in its history. The deficit was made up for with coal. That is why everyones rates went up last month, to offset the extra expense of burning coal instead of generating with hydro.
It takes a special variance from the FERC to deviate from the rule as set by them. APCO requested this variance early on, but was ignored until Riley stepped in and took it to the press. The only person to blame for the water level is Mother Nature. NOTHING is going to raise the level this year. We are only a few weeks away from the normal draw down to begin. What folks need to worry about is NEXT year. Start now with pressure for a variance to start raising in DEC, or JAN maybe.
Bottom line is if we don't get rain, we don't get water.
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| Name: |
Maverick
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| Subject: |
APCO doesn't set the "rule"
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Date:
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8/22/2007 12:38:03 PM
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Actually LTL the variance has to be granted by the Corp not FERC.
With regards to next year the heck with Dec or Jan, we need to push for allowing APCo not to pull the plug and obtain a variance for higher winter pool period in order to have a higher probability of actually getting close to the summer rule curve for next year if this draught / weather pattern continues into next years or even worse for years to come.
As today, the current rules curve does not take into consideration the historical change in weather patterns, improvements in long-term meteorologist forecasting and the addition of another flood control dam near Wedowee, Alabama.
Do not forget the current rules curve is over 40 years old and with the dam reliceinsing in 2013 it might be another 40+ years thereafter before there is an opportunity to chnage the rules curve.
Just my 2 cents on the matter.
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| Name: |
LifeTime Laker
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| Subject: |
APCO doesn't set the "rule"
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Date:
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8/22/2007 1:27:49 PM
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You are right about the Corps. Brain fart there. I have been in favor of the 5ft draw down for quite a while now. Actually anticipating it was one of the deciding factors in purchasing the place I have. At 485 I will have year round water. But it won't be 40 years till the chance comes round again. I agree the current rule is over 40 years old, but re-licensing happens every 15 years I think (it may be 20), and that is when such issues are addressed. DARE Park is a result of the last re-licensing. APCO was informed they had to provide more public recreation facilities at that time.
But it seems a little crazy to be wasting time and resources to try to get a change to 485 this year, when we can't even maintain at 480. It is no secret that I am about the only person here who thinks APCO has done a good job with what they had to work with this year. I still chuckle when I see folks who are CLUELESS as to how the waterways are managed, but come here, and anywhere else they can get someone to listen, and complain.
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| Name: |
dvine
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| Subject: |
Divine Actually It Does
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Date:
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8/22/2007 1:54:30 PM
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Well, you are so right in that respect. Just reading the post it sounded like a lot of people thought that Ga had dams on the Tallapoosa. Thanks for clearing that part up about the Alabama River.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
WRONG!!
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Date:
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8/22/2007 2:21:29 PM
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You incorrectly adjusted for Daylight Savings Time; the actual time of the beginning of the drought was 11:53 AM (Mar. 31, 1948.)
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| Name: |
BigFoot
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| Subject: |
WRONG!!
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Date:
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8/22/2007 3:16:09 PM
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...was wondering if anyone would figure out that date and time but I kinda think Mythbuster might be on to it (as he so often is!)
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