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Name:   lowpool - Email Member
Subject:   Bob McDonald Article
Date:   2/25/2008 4:13:16 PM

When you start thinking for yourself, you see things differently.

George isn't to blame for everything.
Last night I thought about President Bush's State of the Union address. One year ago:

1) Consumer confidence stood at a 2 1/2 year high;
2) Regular gasoline sold for $2.19 a gallon;
3) the unemployment rate was 4.5%.

Since voting in a Democratic Congress in 2006 we're seen:
1) Consumer confidence plummet;
2) the cost of regular gasoline soar to over $3 a gallon;
3) Unemployment is up to 5% (a 10% increase);
4) American households have seen $2.3 trillion in equity value evaporate (stock and mutual fund losses);
5) Americans have seen their home equity drop by $1.2 trillion dollars;
6)1% of American homes are in foreclosure.

America voted for change in 2006, and we got it!





Name:   Arnold - Email Member
Subject:   Bob McDonald Article
Date:   2/25/2008 7:51:59 PM

Cause and effect? Or, maybe more likely a rebel with a cause.



Name:   jalcz - Email Member
Subject:   Funny math?
Date:   2/25/2008 11:56:41 PM

Forgive me if the answer is obvious; I've been sick and under the grips of all sorts of medications. But how is a jump from 4.5% to 5% a 10% increase? Isn't that just one-half of one percent?

Maybe when I'm off the Nyquil I'll see things more clearly.



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Switch to Dayquill
Date:   2/26/2008 6:27:37 AM

.5 is 10% of 5. But a true increase of 10% to 4.5% would be 4.95%, but that is splitting hairs.



Name:   Ivan - Email Member
Subject:   Bob McDonald Article
Date:   2/28/2008 5:48:55 AM

Oh for GODS sakes, give me a break. First off, I will let you know that I am NOT a Democrat, as a matter of fact, I voted for BUSH(Lord, what a mistake that was!) To try and lay blame on the Democrats for the SH*T that BUSH and CHENEY have put us in, is about the same mentality that creates DRY COUNTIES. BUSH, has been running our Country into the ground in the name of what? WMD? Do you remember what that stands for? Weapons of Mass Destruction! And where are they? NO, we were thrust into another Viet Nam for the sake of two things: OIL & the Bush honor.... Remember, BUSH SR didn't get Sadam, so JR had to go after him to save the family name. Unfortunately, the American soldier is the one paying the ultimate price in order to keep the OIL flowing. Quite frankly, he should have been impeached for lying to the American public! Lets not forgot that he's an OIL MAN, as well as CHENEY, who do you think is profiting from these high fuel prices? The Democrats? NO, BUSH, CHENEY and the OIL COMPANIES, that all are in bed together. You need to crawl back under that rock you came from... PLEASE!



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   What flavor is the Kool Aide..
Date:   2/28/2008 6:21:04 AM

..... that you have been drinking. Bush/Cheney divested ALL of their holdings before being sworn in. If you have a retirement account then YOU hold more oil stocks than either of them.

WMD's?? What was that that Saddam used to spray his own people with? HINT-- it wasn't Kool Aide. It has come out that he WANTED the world to think he still had stockpiles. In fact he DID have all the precursers, technology, skill, and will to reconstitute several forms of chemical weapons.

WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE!! It is much better than kool aide. IF you want to rage at something pick a topic that does not make you look so ignorant and gullible. How about this little factoid-- this country lost MORE CITIZENS to ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALEINS DRIVING DRUNK THAN IT DID IN IRAQ LAST YEAR!! Now there is an outrage, ask the second coming himself, OBOMA, how the plans to CHANGE THAT!! Oh, thats right he would just GIVE them citizenship. Now theres a change for ya.



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Heres some outrage for you
Date:   2/28/2008 7:16:22 AM

The fact is illegal aliens cost our economy more every year than does the Iraq war. Try $338 billion a year! Here is a series of links to stories that will detail the cost.

$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year. http://tinyurl.com/zob77

$1.9 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

$2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens. http://www.cis.org/articles/200/fiscalexec.html

$12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English! http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

$17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

$3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

$90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare and Social Services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html
(Link not active ... was not able to verify this information)

$200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two-and-a-half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the US. http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroin and marijuana, crossed into the U. S from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report. http://tinyurl.com/t9sht

The National Policy Institute, estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period. http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin. http://www.rense.com/general75/niht.htm

'The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States. http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html#Illegals


Total cost is a whopping... $338 BILLION A YEAR!!!





Name:   lowpool - Email Member
Subject:   Bob McDonald Article
Date:   2/28/2008 9:16:26 AM

Geez...just thought it was interesting- didn't mean to mess you up that bad.



Name:   lowpool - Email Member
Subject:   Heres some outrage for you
Date:   2/28/2008 9:17:53 AM

Wow..Awesome facts!



Name:   HOT ROD - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   2/28/2008 5:59:04 PM

You need to stop believing everything that you get in email, LTL. I found this with approximately 10 seconds worth of research:

Boyles touted as "study" an email collection of anti-immigration activist falsehoods and unsubstantiated assertions

Summary: Host Peter Boyles of 630 KHOW-AM cited a "new study" in detailing the "taxpayer costs for illegals" on his July 5 show. However, the "study" appeared to be an email that provided statistics from anti-immigration activists and immigration critics. Among the claims Boyles made was that "[t]hirty percent of federal prisons [sic] are illegals" -- an assertion debunked by Colorado Media Matters.

Claiming "[t]here's a ... new study out" detailing the "taxpayer costs for illegals," 630 KHOW-AM host Peter Boyles on July 5 apparently read from what actually was a mass email that compiled statistics from conservative anti-immigration activists and organizations, including Frosty Wooldridge, CNN host Lou Dobbs, the Federation for American Immigration Reform (FAIR), the Center for Immigration Studies (CIS), and the National Policy Institute (NPI). Included on the list was the claim that, as Boyles read it, "[t]hirty percent of federal prisons [sic] are illegals." Colorado Media Matters has debunked similar claims on several occasions, citing federal prison statistics.

From the July 5 broadcast of 630 KHOW-AM's The Peter Boyles Show:

BOYLES: There's a, a new study out. And there's a number of -- there -- finally, people are beginning to put some dollar figures and to taxpayer costs for illegals. The estimate: 11 billion to 22 billion dollars a year spent on welfare to illegals each year. Eleven to 22 billion. 2.2 billion a year is spent on food assistance programs -- food stamps, free school lunches, W-I-C [federal Women, Infants, and Children nutrition program]. These -- 2.5 billion dollars a year spent on Medicaid for illegals. Twelve billion a year spent on primary, secondary education for children here illegally, and they cannot speak a word of English. Seventeen billion dollars a year spent on education for American-born children, so-called "anchors." Three billion dollars a day is spent to incarcerate illegals.

CALLER: You know --

BOYLES: Thirty percent of federal prisons are illegals.

CALLER: Oh, yeah.

BOYLES: Ninety billion dollars a year spent on illegal aliens for welfare and social services. This is all by you, by the American taxpayer.

While the conservative CIS released a controversial report in 2004 that, according to The Washington Post, "found that illegal immigrants in the United States cost the federal government more than $10 billion a year," Boyles did not cite that report, or identify by name any other "study." Instead, he apparently read from an email circulating over the Internet under the title "14 Reasons to STOP Illegal Immigration, With Supporting Documentation & Facts." A copy of the email posted on JihadChat.com begins with the comment, "I hope these 14 reasons are forwarded over and over again until they are read by the majority of Americans. Then they will have something to yell at their U.S. Congress members." During his broadcast, Boyles cited statistics mirroring those in the email but did not cite any sources for them. The original email did cite sources:

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://tinyurl.com/zob77

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.

http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally and they cannot speak a word of English!

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

Boyles apparently misread the "$3 million a day" figure in the email, referring to the alleged cost of incarcerating illegal aliens as "$3 billion."

All of the sources for the purported "study" comprise links to conservative organizations or immigration critics. For example, the figure supposedly showing that "$11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year" comes from FAIR, which has faced bipartisan accusations of airing "racially inflammatory" anti-immigration ads with another group, the Coalition for the Future of the American Worker. The 2004 CIS study on the public cost of illegal immigration yielded two of the figures.

Many of the figures -- including the claim that "30 percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens" -- came from transcripts of CNN's Lou Dobbs Tonight, hosted by immigration critic Lou Dobbs. Colorado Media Matters has noted Dobbs' refusal to correct the debunked claim that the United States had experienced "7,000 cases of leprosy" in three years recently due to illegal immigration.

According to the transcript of Dobbs' April 1 show, which the email links to, CNN correspondent Christine Romans stated:

At the same time, America's criminal justice system is bulging with these citizens of other countries. According to the Federal Bureau of Prisons, 30 percent of federal prisoners are not U.S. citizens. At a cost of $63 a day, taxpayers spend more than $3 million every day to house non-U.S. citizen dollars in our federal prisons. Most are thought to be illegal aliens.

Contrary to the email's claim, which Boyles repeated, Romans did not state that 30 percent of federal prisoners are illegal aliens, but rather that 30 percent are "not U.S. citizens." Her claim that "[m]ost are thought to be illegal aliens" is unsubstantiated and her "30 percent" claim is contradicted by data from the Federal Bureau of Prisons. The bureau's latest inmate population report stated that as of May 26, 2007, 73.5 percent of federal prisoners are U.S. citizens and 20.8 percent are noncitizens -- not just illegal immigrants -- from Mexico, Colombia, Cuba, and the Dominican Republic, while the citizenship status of 5.7 percent of the federal prison population is recorded as "Other/Unknown."

—C.H.

URL: Link

Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   2/28/2008 6:20:28 PM

I didn't get it in an email. I got it from one of those 'conservative' websites. But I like the fact that you focus on the 30% inmate issue, because even in your 'debunking' the figure is over 20% being non-citizens ( I am sure they all have current Visas) and over 5% being unknown.

I didn't even consider fact checking it. Most of it was government studies and all of it was studying government reports, which I am sure are accurate numbers. <sarcasm off>



Name:   HOT ROD - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   2/28/2008 6:45:24 PM

I didn't "focus" on anything; I copied the first of the "facts," googled it, and cut-and-pasted what I found.

Don't play the sarcasm card; your original post was touted as FACT. Now that your "facts" have turned out to be misrepresentations (at best) and lies (at worst) don't pretend you didn't believe them. Or didn't expect us to believe them just because YOU posted them.



Name:   Ivan - Email Member
Subject:   What flavor is the Kool Aide..
Date:   2/29/2008 12:13:37 AM

How about this little factoid-- this country lost MORE CITIZENS to ILLEGAL CRIMINAL ALEINS DRIVING DRUNK THAN IT DID IN IRAQ LAST YEAR!

OK, LETS SEE WHERE YOU GOT THIS INFO, MR IGNORAMIS! I want the Date and Publication that will back your stupid remarks


I'm so tired of people voting for the PARTY versus the actual person running, but over the years, I've noticed that MOST REPUBLICANS will vote republican regardless of the actual person running for office. I guess that includes you. MR BUSH has done a lousy job as a president, though I bet if he could run a third term, you'd be first in line voting for the idiot.




Name:   Ivan - Email Member
Subject:   Heres some outrage for you
Date:   2/29/2008 12:16:26 AM

AND WHAT HAS BUSH DONE ABOUT THIS? NOTHING! YET, YOU FEEL HE'S SUCH A GREAT PRESIDENT.. WAKE UP BUDDY... I BET YOU HAVEN'T LOST A SON OR DAUGHTER TO THIS STUPID WAR HAVE YOU? HEY, WHY ISN'T EITHER OF BUSH'S DAUGHTER IN THE SERVICE?



Name:   Ivan - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   2/29/2008 12:18:23 AM

THANKS HOT ROD, I WAS GOING TO DO SOME RESEARCH ON THESE FACTS, BUT YOU BEAT ME TO THE PUNCH. SEEMS LTL WILLBELIEVE ANYTHING THAT'S PRINTED.



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   2/29/2008 7:34:55 AM

First I never said they were facts. In fact I have stated many times never believe anything I or anyone else posts UNLESS you know it to be true or do the research yourself. My point was simply that the Mexican invasion is costing more $$ and LIVES than the Iraq WAR. Even if you take out the 4.5 - 5% error in the prison population, the numbers remain almost the same.



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Heres some outrage for you
Date:   2/29/2008 7:37:03 AM

Same reason YOUR's aren't...... THEY DIDN'T VOLUNTEER!!! When we start drafting your kids that argument may hold water.



Name:   UncleSam - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   3/2/2008 1:37:37 PM

You say "First I never said they were facts." Well, yes you did, when you opened that post with this line: "The fact is illegal aliens cost our economy more every year than does the Iraq war. Try $338 billion a year!"

And you thought proving that Lakeman (who didn't get the nickname "LaK_Kman" for nothing" has made racist posts was easy. :-)



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   Where is Mythbuster????
Date:   3/3/2008 10:38:55 AM

You are correct about the use of the word 'facts'. I will plead 'nolo' on this one. That sentence was part of the cut and paste that I did, so technically I didn't say it, but quoted it. But I have still not seen anything that tries to dispute the "facts", other than the wrong percentages about the prison population.



Name:   LifeTime Laker - Email Member
Subject:   You asked for it.....
Date:   3/3/2008 11:08:27 AM

.... and I am more than happy to give it to you. The link below will take right to the source. I doubt you will EVER read it though because it contains FACTS. You know those pesky little things that always get in the way of democrats arguments.

AS for me and who I did and will vote for I will say YES. I would vote for Bush over ANY of the front-runners currenty on either ticket.

Now a little history lesson. You speak of voting 'for the party' and imply that only republicans would dare to do that. You may be to young and definately to ignorant to recognize, much less know the history of, the term "YELLOW DOG DEMOCRAT". That phrase comes from folks that would vote for a yellow dog on the democrat ticket as opposed to ANY republican.

I have never heard of a yellow dog republican.

Now I dare you to follow the link for the proof you asked for.

URL: Illegal Immagrant Statistics

Name:   UncleSam - Email Member
Subject:   You asked for it.....
Date:   3/3/2008 3:13:03 PM

From the very story you cited, this line: "If those numbers are correct."

If even the reporter doesn't know if the numbers are correct, why should we believe that they are?

Another question: why write a story using numbers that you can't verify?







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