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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/13/2011 10:54:56 AM
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Watch for blatant hypocrisy on the debt ceiling from both sides of the aisle. While previously for it when W was President, many in the GOP will oppose and while previously opposed when W was President many Dems will be for it this time around. The contortions each side will have to do to explain their flip flop will be painful to listen to and watch. It was a mistake to raise the limit then and it will be a mistake to do so now. Do like we have to do in our personal lives when income drops. reduce spending!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/13/2011 1:54:48 PM
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By the way, it should also be noted in all this noise making that if in fact they do not raise the debt ceiling today the Federal government will be able to operate up to July-August before they theoretically run out of printed money. So there is no imminence to this debt ceiling debate despite what you will hear from the Dems and the government media. Do not fall for that nonsense....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/13/2011 2:35:46 PM
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Geithner said that he can juggle things to keep things going until July.
It was reported on Morning Joe this morning that some financial CEO stated that Boehner contacted him about how long they could hold out on the debt ceiling. Reports are that he was told not to do political posturing with this, as it could be disasterous for the US abroad and the financial markets.
But, Expect plenty of political posturing between now and the time it is raised (because realistically, what choice do they have? But, both sides will try to get as many concessions as they possibly can)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/13/2011 3:37:10 PM
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There will be plenty of posturing on both sides but the key is reducing the spending and not crushing the economy with higher taxes. I know you keep wanting that but history has shown us that every time taxes go up the economy suffers and revenues eventually go down and vice versa. Its time to forget the class envy nonsense that we heard from the Messiah and Dems in congress and do what is right for the American people.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/13/2011 5:27:19 PM
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Not crush the economy. I want the spending to come down and the revenue to increase.
We've had these tax cuts in place since the Bush era and the economy has not exactly thrived. In fact, one financial analyst from CNBC this morning stated that the Economy was not growing under Bush despite the tax cuts.
Having just sent off my income tax payment and my quarterly payment today, I'm not especially anxious to see taxes go up, if but paying down our deficit will save the country, then I'll suck it up. Of course, if we start more wars or come up with new entitlement programs to spend money on, I'm not interested.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hypocrisy on the debt ceiling
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Date:
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4/14/2011 8:32:30 AM
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Hound, the Bush tax cuts had absolutely nothing, zero, zip, nada to do with the economy faltering. Think about it, how could allowing the job creators to keep more of their money to invest in jobs and growth harm the economy? It really is a silly idea that makes zero sense. In fact, you will note that the economy under Obama languished until two things happened. One, the GOP took control of 1/2 of the House and 2) Obama reluctantly agreed to not raise taxes. I am sure you will call that a coincidence but nothing could be further from the truth.
The economy went into free fall because of the distortion of the housing market by Fannie and Freddie. All but the most ideologically blind understand this truth. The tax reductions that W implemented was a major factor in our economy rapidly recovering after 9/11. Threats of tax increases under the early Obama administration were in my opinion one factor in the jobless, mediocre recovery and I am convinced that if he had increased taxes we would have had a double dip. Even Bill Clinton knows that increasing taxes hurts the economy.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
BTW
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Date:
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4/14/2011 10:48:03 AM
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Here is just a perfect example of the dishonesty of the Messiah in his campaign speech and yet another fact that proves he is not serious and is just using class envy to gather up votes in 2012. If you taxed 100% of the income of every American that makes over $100,000 per year it would be less than the one year deficit under Obama. Think about that Hound, take every penny they earn and it still doesn't cover one year of Obama's deficit!
But we all know what the rich do when tax laws change, they change their behavior. That behavior is driven by two goals: 1) reduce the amount of taxes they ultimately have to pay; and 2) reduce their level of spending and investment in order to be able to pay whatever additional taxes they are unable to avoid. Either way its a bad idea. Either the revenues to the treasury don't meet expectations or the economy suffers or as is most likely the case based on a review of the historical record we get both outcomes. Don't fall for the class envy nonsense as it is just that, nonsense.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
BTW
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Date:
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4/14/2011 11:29:59 AM
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MM, you caution hound not to fall for the class envy, tax the rich bs the teleprompter in chief is spewing, seemingly forgetting that hound has forwarded that position with every opportunity on this forum. Some folks are just unable to understand basic economics, others are unwilling. Cant say for sure which category hound falls into, unable or unwilling. At some point it becomes clear that trying to help them is the ultimate exercise in futility. Kind of reminds me of our war on poverty, lots of effort, immeasurable progress.
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I am amused that you are so quick to criticize my skepticism for this particular theory. Yes, it is nothing more than a theory. There are a number of respected economists that don't agree with this. The fact that I am unwilling to swallow this theory whole does not make me ignorant as you would imply. It makes me skeptical.
MM, You don't have to worry about my "class envy". I have enough "class", that I don't have to envy anyone, thank you very much.
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| Name: |
Barneget
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| Subject: |
BTW
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Date:
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4/14/2011 6:49:17 PM
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What particular theory? The theory that congress is more capable of managing our money than we are? Or the theory that additional revenues and program savings will be used to reduce the debt? You referenced an unnamed financial analyst making a comment on a morning show, and an unnamed financial CEO contacting Boehner. Martini responded with facts, although there was a key omission -- US Govt revenues grew at a rapid pace following the tax cuts, yet, exclusive of the war(s), federal spending grew at TWO AND ONE HALF times the revenue increases. That was before the regressives went on a $4.2 trillion dollar binge, enabled solely by the "independents" voting for hope and change. I lost the link but just bing CBO and the annual charted data is available. Here is my theory -- the more involved the government is in any of the 8 stages of the economic cycle, the more protracted the cleansing. That is why we are still sucking wind, with high unemployment and revenues down at local, state, and federal levels.
http://mises.org/journals/qjae/pdf/qjae7_3_3.pdf
(I am among the group mentioned on page 1)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Ahhh...unnamed "respected economists"
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Date:
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4/15/2011 8:25:11 AM
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Any economist who would say that letting the productive keep more of their own money harms the economy is a quack. They might be respected, but only by the looney left wing nuts that are looking for any excuse to redistribute wealth as a mechanism to ensure maintaining political power. They must be the very same "experts" that we hear about every month when inflation, unemployment claims, sales, GDP and every other economic measure is higher or lower than the so-called experts expected. The real news is when they get anything right which is akin to a blind squirrel finding an acorn or a broken clock being right twice a day.
So don't just reference some alleged "respected" economists that think otherwise, provide me with some explanation as to how reduced taxation harms the economy. That should be a good one because I will blast it out of the water. There is a reason that economics is called the dismal science.......although science is too generous a word.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Economic History Lesson
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Date:
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4/15/2011 8:42:54 AM
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History has a way of making clear what is successful… and what is not.
Experience is having a history of success and failure… and learning from it.
Stupid is learning nothing from repeated unsuccessful behavior.
We have a stupid president, and a stupid Congress, putting us on an inane course to repeat an unsuccessful behavior… despite the clear history about such behavior.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
True that....
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Date:
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4/15/2011 9:37:19 AM
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Those that do not learn from the mistakes of the past are doomed to repeat them.
It never ceases to amaze me that seemingly otherwise intelligent people simply refuse to give up discredited notions even in the face of irrefutable facts. It is just this sort of blind ideology that allows the left to propose, and re-propose failed policies of the past as if suddenly they will work. Truly the definition of insanity........
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