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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
[Message deleted by author]
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Date:
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11/27/2011 9:27:29 PM (updated 11/27/2011 9:28:09 PM)
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
TAX LOOPHOLES
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Date:
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11/27/2011 9:37:52 PM
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Posting another lie or bitter comment with no facts ... then changed your mind.
You still can't say what that disaster in the white house has done to deserve your support/
You Coward.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
TAX LOOPHOLES
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Date:
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11/27/2011 9:40:31 PM
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An interesting article on loopholes. The URL did not post so try cut and paste.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/27/business/estee-lauder-heirs-tax-strategies-typify-advantages-for-wealthy.html
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Duh......
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Date:
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11/28/2011 9:09:44 AM
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Of course that is what the wealthy do. They use the complexity of the tax code to avoid paying taxes. Why do you think Gates and Buffett put their money in trusts and foundations?!?!? To avoid having the tax man take them when they croak. As Warren so elegantly put it, I decided to put the money in the Gates Foundation because the transaction costs are lower than if I paid the estate tax. Well said, Warren. The government will piss away a large amount of your wealth with wasteful spending.....another duh!!!
Another note, of course this article which focuses almost exclusively on a Republican barely mentions in passing Democrat hypocrites like Buffett, Gates and almost every libtard actor in Hollywood. Yet another example of the leftward bias of the government media, including the NYT (which explains the periodic layoffs). You see, what they fail to understand or are afraid to mention is that at least Lauder is not a hypocrite like Buffett, Gates and these other left wing billionaires that lament how little they pay in taxes and yet spend millions each year on tax attorneys and accountants to help them avoid paying taxes. At least Lauder has the intellectual honesty to say the truth and walk the talk. I am for all of them doing whatever is legal to avoid paying taxes but I am repulsed by jokers like Buffett and his dishonesty.
And finally, I would be remiss if I didn't also point out that I have taken what the NYT has written with a huge grain of salt. They do have a long and sordid history for inaccuracy you know.......
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| Name: |
Tall Cotton
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| Subject: |
Duh......
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Date:
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11/28/2011 4:01:15 PM
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For those of us not quite so wealthy as those described in earlier posts, loopholes are called deductions, including mortgage interest deductions, charitable giving deductions, etc.. Why not just do away with them all and go to a flat 10% from dollar one on every income dollar for everyone? Then the debate will be over, NOT!
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Duh. to you too.....
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Date:
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11/28/2011 7:23:10 PM
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MM Hope you and family celebrated an enjoyable Thanksgiving.
Surprised you did not comment on this. Looks like Buffett was right when he said his secretary pays a higher effective tax rate than he does.
"The tax burden on the nation’s superelite has steadily declined in
recent decades, according to a sliver of data released annually by the
I.R.S. The effective federal income tax rate for the 400 wealthiest
taxpayers, representing the top 0.000258 percent, fell from about 30
percent in 1995 to 18 percent in 2008, the most recent data available."
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| Name: |
comrade
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| Subject: |
Duh. to you too.....
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Date:
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11/28/2011 10:10:25 PM
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Do you think the "lost"12% from those 400 taxpayers would make a dent in the debt?
Probably wouldn't even cover a month's worth of the Jefferson County Sewer obligation... :-)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Duh. to you too.....
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Date:
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11/28/2011 10:16:18 PM
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GF, it was a nice break although too short as always. Hope yours was the same.
Why would I comment on the some cherry picked tax fact? Its of zero importance to me. What is important to me is the specter of higher income tax rates that will directly impact my business. Not to mention the regulations such as the one I learned about today that will cost me $6K to demonstrate that systems we have been safely operating for the last 15 years will not cause some obscure arc flash to occur. That is but one of hundreds of examples of needless regulations that are killing small business.
GF, the main reasons that Buffett's effective tax rate is lower than his secretary is because most of his income comes from long-term capital gains and tax free bonds and hers is from her regular income, not to mention the fact that he spends millions on attorneys and accountants to reduce or eliminate his taxes. I am all for him doing so but he should just shut his mouth about needing higher taxes and stop being a hypocrite. If he thinks he doesn't pay enough in taxes why not just stop fighting the federal government and pay them the $1B he owes going back to 2002?!?!? Because he is a liberal hypocrite and frankly I could care less what he says. In a normal world he would be called out for his blatant hypocrisy but the media is dominated by left wing nuts so their ability to think critically is non-existent.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Fish ...
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Date:
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11/29/2011 8:25:56 AM
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Why is that a BAD thing? Why would you NOT want everyone to keep more of the money they earn? Why do you think government can spend it better than the people that earn it? I just read an article on how the tax receipts increased by almost $1 trillion dollars annually after the Bush era tax cuts. This whole concept the dems have of taxing people more raises revenue is just false ... it only slows the economy, people have less spendable income and ultimately tax revenues go down?
So is the goal to increase tax revenues or just say you are taxing people at a higher percent?
CNBC had an economist on yesterday that pointed out that is you doubled everyones taxes, including business, and somehow that did not impact the economy, we would still have an annual deficit of close to a half trillion dollars a year.
So genius ... do we have a spending problem or a tax problem? This is just class warefare and does nothing but divide the country more ... I am sure it is Oblamers plan since he has nothing to run on and all his policies failed.
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| Name: |
Tall Cotton
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| Subject: |
Fish ...
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Date:
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11/29/2011 9:14:18 AM
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If the difference in the "effective" rate is the issue then rather than raise his taxes, why not lower hers? Perhaps she would be less likely to hold on to the extra dollars and spend them, stimulating the economy.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Fish ...
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Date:
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11/29/2011 11:42:41 AM
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Exactly ... I agree. It is not that one is not paying enough, it is the other is paying too much.
The problem is spending ... give them less to spend and make them start making cuts. That is what you and I would have to do to balance our budgets. We can say, well we are spending to much so raise my pay to cover it.
I don't get the thinking that the only answer is we need to raise taxes. Address spending, then lets see.
many years ago I was at a very large corporation that wanted to cut admin overhead costs by 25% .... so every department in the company had to submit a 40% cut in 5% increments ... for each 5% cut they had to say what would not get done and what risk they saw.
When it was all said in done ... some departments were cut by 40%, others by just 5 or 10 % .... but the wound up getting their 25% reduction and no one really felt it. Over time fat builds up and I have to believe government is that way as well.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
From "The Genius" to Lil Water Boy
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Date:
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11/29/2011 3:45:35 PM
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"So genius" Thanks for showing the maturity to finally state the obvious.
My post of the top tier of wealthy was to show that they are not paying the top rate of 35% as most of their income is capital gains and deductions or loopholes. You are an advocate of reducing taxes to increase revenue. Yet, under your posted plan of 3 Tiers you tax ALL INCOME, which by definition, would include capital gains at the same tax rate. Your plan would tax them at an effective rate close to your top 30% compared to the current average of 18% that they pay.
Since I was the only one who responded to the post on your tax plan, it is conceivable that no one read it. So, I will post the part I am referring to:
INDIVIDUAL
TAXES
A 3 tier flat tax on all income, no deductions. Tiers are based on "excess" income
over certain levels. It would be on
individual income from all sources (not combined for married people).
For example,
Tier I:
10% flat tax for all income over $15K up to $200K (the first $15k is
excluded for everyone and pay no income tax, only a small consumption tax).
Tier II:
Tax from Tier I plus 20% tax on the excess over $200K up to $500k
Tier III:
Tax from tiers I & II plus 30% tax on the excess over $500K.
Examples: $50K pays $3,500 ($50k - $15k * 10%)
$100K pays $8,500 ($100k - $15k * 10%)
$300K pays $38,500 (Max tier I=$18,500 + $100K * 20%)
$750K pays $153,500 (Tier I & II max =$78,500 + $250K *
30%)
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
From "The Genius" to Lil Water Boy
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Date:
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11/29/2011 4:14:34 PM
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I actually revised since this post and there are now 4 tiers. the top tier is only 25% and it is ONLY on the increment over $1 million dollars. Up to that point ... EVERY pays the same tax.
I never understood the concept that their on the first dollars earned no matter what the tax system, somehow higher income people should pay more on those same dollars as someone else. I agree with a progressive system ... but only tax them at a higher rate for the incremental dollars over the previous range.
That way everyone is always paying the same until they enter the next level.
As for only one response ... I received no less than 8 personal emails about it ... I have posted it other places as well and it gets outstanding feedback.
I will be happy to post my revised plan since you seem so interested and I am not a COWARD as you are and put myself out there with what I believe, support and think.
You are such a loser.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Revised Plan
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Date:
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11/29/2011 4:16:27 PM
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INDIVIDUAL TAXES
A 4 tier flat tax on all income (no matter the source), and no deductions. Tiers are based on "excess" income over certain levels. It would be on individual income from all sources (not combined for married people).
For example:
Tier I: 10% flat tax for all income over $15K up to $200K (the first $15k is excluded for everyone and pay no income tax, only a small consumption tax).
Tier II: Tax from Tier I plus 15% tax on the excess over $200K up to $500k
Tier III: Tax from tiers I & II plus 20% tax on the excess over $500K up to $1mm.
Tier IV: Tax from tiers I, II & III plus 25% tax on the excess over $1mm.
Examples: $50K pays $3,500 ($50k - $15k * 10%)
$100K pays $8,500 ($100k - $15k * 10%)
$300K pays $33,500 (Max tier I=$18,500 + $100K * 15%)
$750K pays $113,500 (Tier I & II max =$63,500 + $250K * 20%)
$1.5mm pays $288,500 (Tier I, II, III max=$163,500 + $500K * 25%) Consumption tax: 2.5% on all purchases other than personal capital items such as homes and vehicles. This also serves to generate some tax revenue on illegal income, and higher incomes would automatically pay more of the tax burden, since their spending would be higher. Business "could" be exempt with a valid exemption certificate so there is only one tax collected and not have a compounding effect.
CORPRATE TAXES
All corporations pay 15% tax on a calculated income equal to: Net income plus add back book depreciation and any individual compensation over $1mm (the excess over only), then subtract the US investment write off described below.
All new capital spending "in the US only" would be allowed a 3 year write off to promote US investment (overseas investment gets no capital write-off). Companies still in a loss position after the add backs less capital credit, (ie start-ups and those in financial difficulty) would have up to a 3 year limit for not paying taxes under this structure ... then it would revert to a minimum tax of 3% of revenue.
SOCIAL SECURITY & MEDICARE TAX
Going to a "lower rate" on "all income" may be the answer. Instead of a combined 7.65% up to a limit (Medicare already has no cap), go to 4% on all income. It brings in more revenue, the lower income people will pay less for the benefits they ultimately receive, while higher incomes will pay slightly more. The lower rate raises the breakeven point so only the highest incomes will ultimately pay more.
There should be an option to invest a portion of what is contributed above a certain level for new people entering the workforce for the opportunity for a higher payout when they retire … or allow the company match to go in to a 401K or similar plan.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Revised Plan
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Date:
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11/29/2011 7:31:46 PM
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Sure glad to hear that my comments led you to reevaluate your plan. It must be encouraging to have received the 8 emails. I don't like to brag but I received 637 emails. Keep up the good work. By the way, why do you want to tax capital gains at the tiered rates?
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Revised Plan
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Date:
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11/30/2011 5:58:07 AM
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Your are such a coward and loser ... I am sure you are proud of all the spam you get. It must make you feel so important.
How about being a man and rather than just post your little cut and past attacks ... have a spine and answer a question and state what it is that you actually support. You act just like all the other blind liberals ... you can't be proud of any accomplishments since their is only a path of failures ... so you just attack others.
You have shown your stripes with your lies and when you were called on it each time to back a statement ... you ran like the snake you are.
I am proud to state my views and back them as others do as well on that post here ... you are the only spineless loser that just cuts and pastes the latest BS but never backs anything or stands up and supports what you believe in and why.
You must be so proud of yourself. NOT!!!
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