Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	When do you pay attention to the Pope
Date:	6/26/2015 8:36:52 AM (updated 6/26/2015 8:40:42 AM)

I think John Stewart has it right...the right wing Republicans embrace the Pope and his authority when he is supporting "traditional marriage" but tend to ignore him, and clearly announce they are doing so, when he speaks in favor of "traditional sea level".  Same old bottom line for both right and left and this forum...Your opinion deserves to be heard and respected unless it is different from mine.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Papal Infallibility
Date:	6/26/2015 8:45:47 AM

I grew up as a Catholic, and was taught that the Pope is infallible in matters of the Church.  I fail to see the level of the sea as a matter of the Church.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Had to read this one and its a good question
Date:	6/26/2015 9:53:38 AM

Here's how it works Archie and I'm glad you asked because papal infallibility is the most misunderstood and misrepresented aspect of the Catholic Church.  Catholics are obligated to follow the Pope only on matters of faith and morals and only when he speaks ex cathedra (i.e., from the chair of Peter) in conjunction with the Magesterium (all the Cardinals and Bishops).  On matters of faith and morals speaking ex cathedra he is considered infallible.  In its 2,000 year history a Pope has only used papal infallibility seven times, the latest being in 1950 when the Pope Pius XII defined the perpetual virginity of Mary as an infallible teaching of the Church.  But if the Pope says the sun rises in the west and sets in the east he is wrong.

On all other matters Catholics can in good faith dissent with the Pope's teaching although they should not do so lightly.  For example, Saint Pope John Paul II wrote a lot about capital punishment and why it should be opposed.  But he also acknowledged that Catholics can in good conscience disagree with his views.  I for one read what he wrote and found it compelling and no longer believe we should have capital punishment.  But I readily acknowledge that those that believe in it have very valid arguments and I do not fault them for their views on this issue.

As for your comment about the Right, I think this is a very bipartisan issue.  Don't think for a minute that the left who love Pope Francis because he appears to agree with them on the issue of climate change will likewise embrace him when he reaffirms the Church's teaching on social issues like gay marriage, abortion, etc.  They will not suddenly accept his teachings on those issues because he happens to agree with them on climate change.  Sort of like SCOTUS, we all (conservatives, liberals, independents, libertarinas) love them when they come out with a ruling we like and think they are the devil when they do the opposite.  That is a bipartisan reaction and not just the purvue of one belief system.  Human nature.........

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Papal Infallibility
Date:	6/26/2015 10:48:03 AM (updated 6/26/2015 10:52:49 AM)

Mr. H, I was never a Catholic. If their belief is the Pope can speak no wrong on matters of fthe church only, then I guess I agree with you that neither he nor the church should be concerned with change in the sea level (caveat...I believe the Bible advises that all shall be good stewards of the earth?... does that make how we treat Mother Earth a biblical concern?) Then do you maybe think the rest of us, including Catholics, should be as a matter of self-preservation if not faith?  I can only hope....

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	Had to read this one and its a good question
Date:	6/26/2015 11:04:45 AM

I believe you will see that I addressed the bi-partisan nature of the acceptance or rejection of opinion.

I am glad you are a good Catholic and follow the Pope's infallible ex-cathedra proclamations.  The Mormans have a similar belief that doctrine only changes when the prophet decrees it so and expresses the change to the elders of the church. The prophet spoke a few years back and presto...blacks were suddenly worthy of full Mormans fellowship.  Probably not in mine or your lifetime, but eventually I suspect a Pope will speak ex-cathedra and approve of women in the priesthood and gay marriage and maybe global warning based on the biblical admonitions...I take comfort in the fact that your children and grandchildren will embrace the Holy Father's change in doctrine.

Name:	architect -	Reply
Subject:	What about Priestly celibacy
Date:	6/26/2015 2:47:17 PM

It was not until the 2d Lateran Council in 1139 that the "rule" against priests marrying was adopted.  It was reconfirmed by the Council of Trent about 400 years later.  For more than half its history the church permitted priest to marry...it still permits it in the Eastern Rite communions.  Priestly celibacy is considered a ''regulation'' rather than ''dogma'' and could be ended tonight by a stroke of the papal pen.  Now if he did change the rule and since it would not change the male only requirement, it is interesting to contemplate how today's decision by the supremes would effect the US church.

Considering the decision of today I am very interested in how off the wall crazy the Southern Baptist reaction will be.  They seem to be more than happy to pour gasoline on the flames whenever possible.  The SBC needs to take a deep breathe and realize what happened today. The court decreed that 2 same sex partners can be legally married...it did not say a Southern Baptist preacher had to perform the ceremony nor did it require a single Southern Baptist parishner to send the couple a gift ;-)

Some people are moaning that if a Southern Baptist preacher refuses to perform a gay wedding he will be subject to a civil rights lawsuit.  If that is so, how do they explain the lack of a single lawsuit over the fairly recent Baptist requirement that the preacher in question has to be a "HE". Same applies to the Catholic, Orthodox and numerous other groups.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Had to read this one and its a good question
Date:	6/26/2015 3:26:13 PM

You still aren't quite getting the term of faith and morals.  Most of what you describe are traditions with a capital T or lower case t.  Those don't require papal infallibility and can be changed at any time.  As for your view of what the Catholic Church will someday allow it is anyone's guess.  But I seriously doubt a renegade Pope wanting to change Church doctrine ex cathedra on matters such as gay marriage could get the Magesterium behind him.  But you never know, and if he did I would seriously question his sanity and wait for the next Pope to right the ship.  The Church will be here until the end of time as Christ promised and we have survived much worse.  We're not going anywhere, even under a papacy like Pope Francis'.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Pope Brings Civility To Forum
Date:	6/27/2015 1:18:56 AM

Amazing how MM is now reading posts from Archibald and responding in an intelligent and civil manner. I always thought MM was really reading Archies posts but trying to act macho by telling us that he doesn't read them. Going forward, maybe MM can handle dissent in a more mature and civil manner.