Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 12:23:39 AM

I am going to try and arouse some basic feelings that may exist in general about governments responsibility for providing insurance to all Americans. First of all I will try to put forth my own thoughts on the subject. I consider myself to be someone who has feelings for those who are less fortunate than I am and understand there are certainly things that should be done to heip others in certain sitations. But I also believe over the years we have boxed ourselves in with many of the approaches that are being used to heip.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      First, I think we(being our government), has gone too far in instilling a feeling in our citizens of "what are you going to do for me" rather than "what do I need to do to help myself". Remember President Kennedy said, "Ask not what my Country can do for me, ask what I can do for my Country". Where is the incentive for anyone to work to satisfy their needs if someone is going to give it to you free? When you marry and bring a child into the world you have signed on to provide for the well-being of your family. As we all know in many cases it takes both parents working or sometimes working two jobs to provide for your family. We have created a society that is becoming more and more dependent on someone other than themselves for their support. I detest someone who brags about how many children they have from different women.                                                                                                                                                       Much of where we are today finds its way back to President Johnson in 1964 and his "Great Society". I don't deny that many good things occurred during its early years, but over time trying to be everything to everybody has brought us to where we are today. It has become evident that we taxpayers cannot meet all the give aways that have been inculcated into today's society. Today there are 95,000,000 Americans "not" in the Labor Force, a number that grew 18% since President Obama took office in 2009. The National Debt today is $19,000,000,000,000(19 trillion) of which $9,000,000,000,000(9 trillion) was accumulated during President Obama's eight years. What if China decides to call in its debt? It should be evident to everyone  that this level of spending cannot be maintained. It is a known fact that Congress contributes nothing to the economy and we taxpayers are providing paychecks to the Democrats who are doing "nothing" to promote the well being of our country. As their employers we should be able to fire them. President Trump is trying to carry out the "will" of the people while the Democrats are "obstructing" his every move. Taxpayers are fed up watching their medical bills increase because illegal immigrants are being treated in emergency rooms and we pay for their care with higher insurance costs.                                                                                                                                                                                                            There has to be someone much smarter than me to propose a better way to heip those who are truly in need. Why should taxpayers be paying disability benefits to someone who is not disabled but is receiving the benefit because of unscrupulous lawyers? I suggest that the states be given the authority to establish a department or departments to evaluate individual needs and be able to approve benefits when justifications are found. The department should establish criteria necessary for an individual to continue to receive benefits such as evidence they are looking for employment, etc. The departments could work with the federal government in establishing such a network. Each state is in a much better position to determine their needs instead of having the federal government try to design one plan that will work for everyone.                                                                                                                                                                                                               This post may fall on deaf ears and many may feel it's a feeble attempt to offer any suggestions. If that be the case I fully understand that I may be whistling in the wind.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 10:12:23 AM

OK, I’ll bite on this one.

We have to make a decision … as a nation, as individuals & voters…. And I think we should begin the discussion by asking ourselves one basic question.

Is Healthcare going to be a Human Right or simply a Commercial Product?

If adequate healthcare for everyone in the US is a Right, then everyone should have access to it fairly and no one should be criticized for using it.   It is always going to be true that there are people who fraudulently obtain government benefits including healthcare, but just how does that number of fraudulent claims compare to the millions of disabled adults & children who really need these benefits because they cannot be expected to obtain commercial insurance thru employers?     Hacking large chunks of coverage from the entire program means taking coverage away from people who need it, while (maybe) kicking a few undeserving people off the rolls.  Conservatives start from the point of view that every system is full of graft, waste, misuse and underserving people, I would start from the point of view that the vast majority of that money goes to funding critical health services that mean the difference between life and death for many people.   I’m willing to tolerate that large systems (we could include every corporation, government, and any other organization here) have ‘waste’ and inefficiencies… but the core mission is what’s important.

By the way, when it comes to eligibility for these programs (like Medicaid or Social Security Disability), there are periodic case reviews to determine if someone needs to continue on the programs.  One such reviewing body is the Office of Disability Determination within the SS Department. 

If, on the other hand, healthcare is like any other commercial product… which seems to be the way Conservatives think of it, then you can only have what you can afford to buy and not one bit more.  

Currently, our national healthcare policy is split on this.   If you approach an Emergency Room with a sick child, they cannot turn you away if you do not have a way to pay for the care.   Your child will be assessed, recommendations made, hospitalized if necessary even if you don’t have insurance.   However, the care will not be adequate because hospitals don’t provide follow up care in an outpatient MD’s office, nor the medications needed to treat the child post-hospitalization.   The cost of your child’s care (limited as it is) will be borne by the hospital and becomes part of their ‘bad debt’… uncollectable.    This creates upward pressure on medical prices.  Add more uninsured patients, and you get more negative effects on the healthcare system that result in higher prices for everyone.

If Healthcare is a product, then that child has no right to any treatment unless you can afford to pay the price for the services at the time of delivery.   Simple as that.   And while it is unthinkable to turn that child away, it is the logic of conservative healthcare policy that this should be exactly what happens.  

Should private hospital corporations be forced to absorb the cost of caring for uninsured people or should they be free to protect themselves from ‘bad debt’ by declining to serve people who cannot pay? 

Do you want to give hospitals the right to protect their business by turning away people who can’t pay for it?   Auto repair shops have the right to turn you away if you can’t afford their services, we all accept the logic in that.    Should the healthcare system operate the same way? 

I frequently hear the complaints you have written about… that too many undeserving people get too-generous government benefits, that these cost too much and the answer is to drastically reduce the giveaway programs altogether.   That solution over-simplifies the situation and ignores reality.

People who are kicked off programs don’t just go away.   They continue to eat, breathe and get sick… their children get sick… and they aren’t just magically removed from the world.   People have to quit their jobs to take care of sick family members (that’s not good for the economy, is it?), declare bankruptcy to protect themselves from crushing medical bills.   Poorly treated medical problems become more expensive and the ever-increasing costs are passed as inflationary pressures on the system.   Talk about inefficiencies!  Untreated, a low cost illness can develop into an expensive life-threatening crisis in anyone’s life. 

Most importantly, though, is the question of Right vs. Product….  It has to be one or the other.

And if someone feels healthcare is just like any other consumer-product, then I would suggest they consider this:     Imagine yourself sitting in the waiting room of a hospital and being responsible for explaining to a man that he should take his sick child and leave the area unless he can afford to pay up front for the treatment he hoped for.   

If you can see yourself doing that sort of thing, then you support the Conservative approach to healthcare.

Name:	realfast64 -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 12:45:10 PM

 If we continue down this road we will all be expected to support our neighbors bad habits one day in the near future!

Name:	realfast64 -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 12:45:12 PM

 If we continue down this road we will all be expected to support our neighbors bad habits one day in the near future!

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 3:24:32 PM

For centuries on this continent healthcare was a product.....until our wonderful Congress dictated that all hospitals that were built under the Hill-Burton law must treat all persons who come to the ER.  After that law was in effect, Congress extended it to all hospitals who receive federal monies....which means all.  Now the bleeding heart liberals think it is the RRRRIIIIIGGGGHHHHTTT of all people to receive free gubment healthcare, and come hell or high water the dimokraps want it to happen for all their worthless, welfare slugs.  

Please state exactly your grounds for thinking that all humans in the US have a RRRRRIIIIIIIGGGGGGHHHHHHTTTTT to free gubment healthcare.   Also, be sure you stay within the parameters set by the Constitution.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 3:44:15 PM

  You went and ruined it with the last sentence wix. I was looking forward to a double load of cr@p  served up all touchy freely with a dose of tree hugging liberalism hypocrisy.. How dare you demand he stick to facts and laws. That cripples liberals.

Name:	Shortbus -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 6:04:41 PM

I'll bite too.

Before da gubment took half of what you earn, you had 10% to give to the church.

Truly hungry people would get some food and blankets and be inspired to get back on their feet.

The church was/is a great local welfare system that wasn't fooled all the time.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 7:26:14 PM

Has anyone noticed that many (most) of the religion based hospitals have either closed or been sold off to commercial for profit companies since o-BAMMIEcare was passed by 100% of the dimokraps.  Without religion based healthcare most of us would not be alive today, but the likes of COPPER-IDIOT and his ilk have declared that gubment should be the only healthcare provider.  HE WHO CONTROLS THE LIFE AND HEALTH OF THE DEPENDENT SUBJECT CONTROLS THE COUNTRY.......

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 10:32:11 PM

The only people I think that are entitled to low cost or free health care are children.  (I'm not talking about what is owned verterans for their contributions). 

Back when Johnson envisioned "the Great Society" we were in the boom of post WWII.  So when things are booming, it is easy to be generous and want everyone to have some sense of security.  A lot of people liked it so much, they figured out ways to game the situation.  In the beginning, welfare was something to tide you over until you could get on your feel.  Food stamps were created that people should have the basic needs for food and was supposed to be a stopgap measure.  Then people realized that if they worked, their " benefit" decreased, so what was the inscentive to pull yourself up? 

Our country has changed a lot since those times.  We are engaged in wars that last for a long time and generate more injuries that need to be addressed, and pretty soon the VA was overwhelmed with patients. 

Some of us have seen this thing called Social Security Diability insurnace.  Pretty soon, people figure out that no one checks very often, and you could collect and then also work off the books.  This did not put your payment in jepoardy, and you didn't have to pay taxes on the money, nor claim it on your taxes.    People were paying into Social Security as though ti were a retirement program.  And then our govenrment needed to borrow the money and left behind them a big pile of IOU.

Most people do not save their money -not for their retirement and not to cover any emergencies.  People started suing Drs. and got big payments, adn the Drs.  and hospitals raised their prices to buy insurace to cover this eventuality.  For a long time, people just wanted to be able to buy affordable insurance, but then, a lot of people looked around at other countries and decided that they were entitled to free health care too.  They don't consider the tax rate of those countries with "free" healthcare, and they decided that the government could find a way to pay for it.  They attempted to put people with health care insurnace on a guilt trip. 

We cannot have free health care here, because the vast majority of people don't want to have to pay higher taxes so that someone else can go to the Dr. At heart, we are not a socialist country.  So many of us still belong to paying our own way. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/25/2017 11:38:14 PM

Well, so far that's one vote for Universal coverage for children only, with that person believing children may have a Right to healthcare.

However, everyone else thinks they should just go away and die quietly if they can't afford to pay.  Even the kids.   

Wow.  You guys seem to forget we are talking about real human beings here.  Would anybody want to volunteer to tell a parent of a sick child they just have to go away and die because they can't pay for the care?   

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 1:02:41 AM

I don't consider myself a cold-hearted person, but with a nation that is 20 trillion dollars in debt, any logical thinking person should realize government funded health care is unaffordable when coupled with all the unending demands that are expected from government. I firmly believe that the extent to which our welfare programs have expanded over the years has resulted in a population that has a mindset that the "more" government does the "more" they expect. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan have cost almost five trillion dollars to date, dollars that have to be borrowed and the future interest on these debts will be in the trillions of dollars.                                                                                                                                                                                                                              I think we fail to realize that government provided insurance by smaller countries is much easier to manage and less costly to administer than it is in large countries like the United States. They are not faced with many of the costs related to wars and many of the humanitarian efforts provided by countries like the United States. I agree with President Trump that it is time to realize that the United States can no longer afford to be the world's "Good Samaritan".                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                  People of this country have always "cared" for their neighbors during times of need and there are numerous resources available to set up to help their fellow man. There is an almost unending number of charities and other sources of help for almost anyone that has a "true" need for help. I was amazed that when I began to look at the kinds of help that is available for practically every kind of situation that is imaginable. I think that anyone who pulls up www.needhelppayingbills.com will be totally surprised at the heip that is available throught this great country for almost any need.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                      How many "needy" people could have been helped if the $20,000,000 dollars California sent to Georgia to "buy" an election could have received that? That was a total waste of 20 million dollars. We should make it illegal for "money" to be able to decide who represents our interests in Congress.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 1:15:52 AM

Apparently you think money grows on trees. What a great "Health Care System" we could have if only a "few" of the 10 trillion dollars Obama added to the National Debt could have gone to health care. Instead he "lied" to the American people and succeeded in getting "Obama Care" passed which has now imploded. Sorry I coaxed you out of your "cocoon".

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	OK copperline, you blabbering idiot
Date:	6/26/2017 7:18:22 AM

  Please, please, please cite me one instance of a child dying in this country from lack of care. Not some fake statistic cut me pasted from some liberal website but a real verifiable case. If what you are spewing is true that should be an easy challenge. I promise you this, if you find one case to support your argument I will find a million to support mine. Remember real verifiable cases. I already have mine so get to work and find me one.

  Not only do we take care of our own children but we export our generosity to other country's that dont/can't take care of their children as we do. Here is a real life story for you. I know you won't believe it because it goes against everything you think you know about life in these United States. I was scheduled for surgery and got a call postponing it for one week. The reason was the doctor had been asked to drop everything and fly to South America to treat a child there. A group of volunteer doctors had gone on a mission trip and a little girl was brought in that need specialized surgery.. Someone on the team knew that my doctor had the KSA's to save this little girl nd called him. He dropped everything and went, UT rather than do the one surgery he stayed the entire week operating every day, sometimes 2-3 times, he also gives away his services here at home.

  A  very personal story. This same doctor performed a series of operations on me. When we got o the final phase I was sitting in the scheduling office and the finance lady was explaining that this procedure was considered elective/cosmetic and insurance may not pay. The doctor happened to be walking by and overheard us discussing payment options. He  walked in the office and and told her he felt sure that he could get it ruled medical necessary and insurance would pay, but if not his foundation would pay for it. I'm not sure what happened because I never got a bill, not even for deductibles. He said he felt like I had been through enough without worrying about how to pay for this surgery. Is he an exception? Sure, but he exists. If he does, so do others. Remember, I am prepared to prove a million to one  eligible cases of children's lives saved, in this country, without regard to ability to pay. All I ask of you is one verifiable case of a child dying because they weren't insured.

Or we can argue these facts like you did about no coverage for pre-existing conditions. Making a fool of you is so easy even an old uneducated redneck right wing but like me can do it.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	CopperFREE & Peeelosiuu
Date:	6/26/2017 7:35:06 AM

Die in the streets, die in the streets,  OH, my.  Has anyone here seen people die in the streets in the US?  No free healthcare for centuries, but no dying in the streets.  How in the world did humans survive and develop great civilizations without free healthcare.  I'll tell you how. We earned the money to provide healthcare for our families. Millions of people go through life without health insurance by choice....fact.  Get used to it.  No free rides to gain dimokrap slave votes.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 9:24:06 AM

Well, it looks like you guys are convinced that nothing bad will happen when deep Medicaid cuts come out of Washington over the next few years.... churches will pay for the care that the poor needs, MD's will pony up all over the country to make free care happen for 20 million people predicted to lose their coverage.   Nursinghomes will decide to keep patients no longer covered by Medicaid just out of the goodness of their hearts.   The State of Alabama will easily make up for the shortfall of federal dollars in Medicaid while keeping our taxes the lowest in the nation.   Hospitals won't need their billing departments, and everyone will be happy.   

Magical thinking.   

Here's one more for you to chew on.   There are millions of vets who are not eligible for VA services.  They don't have service connected injuries and don't qualify.  However, many of them have fallen on hard times and quite a few of them are on Medicaid.   You will be cutting quite a few of them off as well.   Any qualms about treating our veterans so badly?   

Of course, any free-loading deadbeat is just like any other free-loading deadbeat... except when they are used as heroic examples of American Patriotism.

I am amazed at the lack of humanitarian concern you guys like to display.   Especially those of you who are already live on your government-provided health and retirement income benefits.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	COPPER-giveaway
Date:	6/26/2017 9:38:07 AM

Interesting to note that nowhere in your verbosity above do you mention that you beloved dimokrap slugs might have to earn their way to obtaining health insurance.  Church (sorry gubment dun put them out of business), Free doc services (sorry, docs dun been squeezed too much by da dimokrap gubment). Golly gee guess da dimokrap idiots gonna haft to give mo.....oh, wait....dimokraps ain't in power no mo, but da done made all these promises to get votes.....WHAT WE GONNA DO?

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 10:23:26 AM (updated 6/26/2017 10:38:22 AM)

Ok is a right a right, is a constitutional right a human right or do they not equate?

So as I see it, the 2nd amendendant to the Constitution of the US - A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

OK now lets look at a few things the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed... well with special restrcitions or in some minds "reasonable restrictions and interpretations"  

I have seen and heard in my life time limites to "shall not be infringed"  from you are required to go get a CCW permit for your firearm, must belong to a militia - well that is really was supposed to mean the National Guard -  so you do not qualify to keep a firearm and that is what the founders really must have intended, must register your firearms, can not purchase this firearm or that firearm.  In some places you get the government adding huge tax burdens to the costs of bullets, firearms and accessories.  You can not have a "assault rifle", or my favorite that it means that you could own a musket or similar designed firearm of the period in which the Constitution was signed, because who could have ever thought at the time of the killing devices of today.

So explain to me when a right is a right?  When can restrictions be placed on that right because of the color of the firearm?  Can you only own a musket? if so can your health care be restricted back to 1787 to leaches and a boiled hearbal poultice?  

We have already seen restrictions of most of our "rights" .  I am not going to go into a list of why I think that these have been violated.

So i find it funny that you seem to think that a right to health care is a much better system then a commercial product and that some how a "right" means that it anything and everthing is covered, handled, and can not be taken away at any time because it is a "right".

I also  find it funny you are saying its either Gov utopia health care or children getting kicked out of hospitals for being unable to pay are the only two options. You are an idiot.  There are always people who do good work for free, charity and helping hands.  Cooper Green hospital used to be one, till it was run into the ground.  

There was a recent discussion on this site that Bill Clinton placed a 5 year mandated no welfare for immigrants and Trump didnt build that Bill. - so you are for no health care for little Pedro for the 5 years of his life when he would be needing the most nutrition and have just kicked little Pedro to the curb of your hospital.  SNAP is just not enough, welfare is not enough, food stamps is just not enough - his parents wandered through the harshness of the border and just could not get across those last few feet before he was squatted out on the wrong side of the border so he could get your guaranteed rights.  

Where do you stop your "Rights"  well its hard to get a job without a phone.. boom Obama Phone... Well its hard to get back and forth to a job since you have no bus stops nearby ... boom free cars,  can not afford a nice suit for that job - wel shucks free clothes, and free trips to the cleaners.  decide to spend all your money on x-box, playstations, meth, drugs, booze, hookers - well lordy I hope there are tapes - FREE HEALTH CARE FOR ALL, no more responsibilty.

You are still an idiot and I pity your "patients".

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 12:19:46 PM

You talk about the 20 million people predicted to lose their coverage under the new Health Care bill. Did you ever think about the fact that the 20 million dollars that Californians donated to the Democrat candidate in Georgia was money spent on a lost cause, but wouldn't it be a tremendous gesture of "caring" if that 20 million could have gone into some kind of a trust for those who lose their insurance? I hear your "bleeding heart" words, but why don't Democrats put their money where their mouth is and show their support for a "worthy" cause? I fail to see any real "humanitarian concern" being displayed to back up your talk.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                   As to your comment about those of us who live on government provided health care and retirement income benefits, I served my country and don't have to "apologize" for any benefit I receive. Also, when I enlisted in the Air Force, I was "promised" that i f I retired I would receive "free" dental and health insurance fot "life". If you are not aware, some of the "low life" in Congress, many who have never worn a military uniforn,  succeeded in insuring that "promise" was never kept. Echoing the words of President Kennedy, I ask "what have you done for your Country"?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 2:04:55 PM

I don't feel bad about my retirement income or my health care benefit, because I paid into one, all of my working years; and I still pay for my health care. 

You are right about the miliary health care sliding away.  I knew someone that said the same thing. 

What is really comes down to is that government has to make some hard choices, because the govenrment doesn't have enough money to pay for the idealist utopia that Bernie Sanders and his ilk paint as the future of America.  I may have been a govenrment employee but I have a degree in business, and know that you can't have everything. 

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 2:56:57 PM

Here is a policy analysis I just got yesterday from a friend.   She is a Pediatrician and senior staff member at Children’s Hospital here in Birmingham.

It reads:

“This is a long so buckle up: Alabama gets about a 2:1 match on its Medicaid dollars, which the ACA repeal bill proposed in the US Senate will cut into a block grant.  This does not include the Medicaid expansion under PPACA because Alabama did not participate in the Medicaid expansion.  This is existing care that we’ve had well before 2010, do there is no “Obamacare” discussion to be had here.  This is something that existed before 2010 and will only change if the current proposal passes.

In 2015, Alabama Medicaid was 32% state-funded and 68% federal-funded.  More than a million Alabamians are Medicaid recipients; about 535,800 of them are children (0-18 yrs old) and another 16,000 are pregnant women.   This means that about half of Alabama kids under age 18 are Medicaid recipients by my back- of- the- napkin math.   Able-bodied adults without kids rarely qualify for Medicaid, and if you’re the parent of a kid who is a Medicaid beneficiary,  you can only get coverage from Medicaid if you make 18% of the Federal  poverty level  (about $3600/year for a family of three).   Kids are only eligible if they are from a family whose income is less than $2957 a month for a family of four (about $35,000 per year).

From 2008-2016, the portion of Alabama kids living in poverty increased by 27%.  According to the Annie E. Casey Foundation, in 2014, 375,000 Alabama kids (18 & under) received Supplementary Security Income (SSI), cash public assistance income, or Food Stamps/SNAP in the previous12 months.   That’s about 1/3 of Alabama kids.   Between 2010-2014, 192,000 Alabama kids lived in census tracts with poverty rates of 30% or more.   We have a poverty problem and Medicaid plays a big role in keeping poverty from killing Alabamians more quickly.   Medicaid helps make healthcare available to rural Alabamians---especially kids who need pediatricians.   So, if this bill passes and the Alabama legislature does not change the way we fund Medicaid, you’ll  likely see doctor’s offices close, wait times increase, and fewer people with access to healthcare.   We already have the 4^th worst infant mortality rate in the country (8.7 deaths per 1000), which means we lost 517 infants in 2014.   Expect that to get worse with less care available.   I’m not even going to get into what this will do for Nursing homes and Assisted Living facilities that care for our senior saints or the disabled---about 31% of Alabama Medicaid recipients are elderly, blind or disabled.   In 2015, at least ¼ of the people in 57 out of 67 counties are eligible for Medicaid.

Alabama Medicaid makes up between 14-16% of the combined state budget, and is expected to consume more proportionately as time goes on.   In the General Fund budget, we already spend approximately 60% of the budget on two items:  Medicaid and corrections.   This means the Legislature and the people of Alabama would need to increase funding to provide the same level of care as our existing bare-bones program, or cut that bare-bones program back further so fewer people are covered (or there’s less coverage offered for the same number of people or more……remember, poverty is increasing in Alabama)   Spoiler alert:   They won’t change it because they are too scared to raise tax revenue and because there is a structural flaw in the way our State Government is set up.

The result will be anti-family and anti-life.   It will reduce opportunities for human flourishing in the State of Alabama.  So, feel however you want about the Affordable Care Act, Medicaid, the Trump-Ryan repeal bill…. Reducing the tax burden on people who make more than $250,000 per year and on medical device companies, and all the elements of the 1/6 of the American economy this will affect.  

But know the stakes for your neighbors when you formulate your opinions.”

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 3:15:37 PM

Whether you oppose reduction in Entitlement spending depends on whose Ox is getting gored, doesn't it?    No one has been recently talking about the amount of money it costs to fund federal retiree benefits.... but we could just as easily focus on these huge expenses on the backs of US taxpayers, no?

You paid into the Federal retirement plan just like many people contributed to Social Security and Medicare over their working lives.  In return, you are entitled to those benefits for life.    

That's why we call them Entitlement Programs.   During your lifetime, you will definitely recieve an amount far exceeding your contributions and your benefits will not cease once you exceed those contributions.  After that, it's up to the taxpayers to keep it coming for you.   Same for social security and Medicare.   All entitlement spending.   If we had just set up your retirement and health insurance program like a Health Savings account... then we'd kick you to the curb when your account was depleted.

Suppose the conservative tide turned and federal retiree benefits became regarded as overly generous......   Would you still favor all these program reductions so we can get a tax break to the upper 1%?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	COPPER-dim
Date:	6/26/2017 3:22:50 PM

Funny your physician buddy didn't mention that doctors don't have to see Medicaid patients if they don't like the reimbursement rates, and if she works at Children's her practice is probably 90% Medicaid which is why her point of the diatribe is frustration over HER income.  CHildren get their healthcare, but the doctor doesn't make enough money.....blah, blah.  No mention of "children's health" only her lack of income.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Entitlement..????...
Date:	6/26/2017 3:26:36 PM

You are entitled to what you EARN......GOT IT?  Nuff said

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	COPPER-dim
Date:	6/26/2017 6:07:10 PM

Yeah I got a lot of "we will just cut coverage" not well shucks maybe $900 for a tylenol can be cut back, or that $5000 we charge for a MRI.

Sounds to me like Crappers friend is anti-patient, anti kid, "The result will be anti-family and anti-life.".  She and her follow drs/nurses/administrators just dont care about the patients or she could just cut her own paycheck and give it to those in need of health care.

They hate kids and life -   might explain the abortion industry.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	well,
Date:	6/26/2017 7:46:35 PM

Wrong on all counts there, boys.   I don't think the pediatricians at Children's Hospital perform a lot of abortions.  Most people would know that.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 8:49:34 PM

Not that it makes any differnence to the health care issue, but the COLA that I was promised has already been modified once under Obama, and will likely be modified again.  I also paid into Medicare. 

But health insurance is not an entitlement by any stretch.  it's  something we all have to pay for or we go without.  I'm not going to feel sorry for people that choose not to buy insurance. 

On then news tonight, they were trying to make a point about the number of elderly that reliant on Medicaid for long term care.  They were interviewing a woman who has been on Medicaid for her to live in a home.  She had children, "but they don't have space for her" and she has no momey.  My mother in law found that when she was paying her way living in assisted living, 20% of the other residents were being paid for by Medicaid.  Is that fair?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	DIM-copper
Date:	6/26/2017 9:58:42 PM

Kindly respond to my post, copper.....

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Nursing Home Medicaid
Date:	6/26/2017 10:13:05 PM

Probably the largest expense that Alabama MEdicaid has is nursing home payments.  AL has such a racket they have had to change rules  several times over the years.  Racket is this:  Old folks with assets have to get rid of assets before they qualify for Medicaid so they turn over, or deed assets to kin, children, etc. and wait a period of time until state says they a indigent then they qualify for Medicaid.  30 years ago the waiting period was 2 years, but abuse is so rampant that now I believe the waiting period is 7 years.  There are literately millionaires, mostly land and farms, in nursing homes via Medicaid.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Hound
Date:	6/26/2017 10:16:06 PM

"I don't feel bad about my retirement income or my health care benefit, because I paid into one, all of my working years; and I still pay for my health care."

Your heath coverage is subsidized by the taxpayers...both Liberals and the Right. Your premium as a retiree are the same that an active employee pays and is subsidized by taxes.

You need to thank me for my contribution to your health benefits.

You earned your pension.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Insurance for Everyone
Date:	6/26/2017 11:50:46 PM

You noted that from 2008 to 2016 the number of children in Alabama in poverty increased 27%. If my math serves me right that increase coincides with the time Obama was President. He did nothing to create more jobs which in turn would have had a positive affect on the welfare of children. President Trump has made job creation a major part of his plan to "Make America Great Again". What are you doing to help make that happen? 

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Poverty of convenience
Date:	6/27/2017 8:33:17 AM

Poverty increased in numbers only.....an effort by o-BAMAits to gather more dimokrap slaves into their voting booth.  Why work your way outta dimokrap slavery when da boss man pays you for your loyalty.....

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	well,
Date:	6/27/2017 8:54:51 AM

was not saying your doom and gloom friend was actually doing abortions - just that it explains the support of them by libtards - go back to reading comprehension.

Name:	copperline -	Reply
Subject:	Final summary
Date:	6/27/2017 11:56:40 AM

The overwhelming majority of readers who post on this Forum think that Healthcare is a product, and there is no Right to medical care at all.   Healthcare should be a commodity, and whether it is available should be solely determined by ability to pay fully for it.     If you can’t afford to pay for it, you don’t deserve to have it.  

Doctors who tell us that the cuts will adversely affect vulnerable people are greedy money-grubbers who are really worried about protecting their incomes while they perform abortions on the side.   What is needed for the health care system to work would be for doctors to simply reduce their salaries.   Hospitals can easily treat uninsured people and absorb those financial losses, discharge patients as soon as possible and readmit them briefly only if they are in a life-threatening crisis.  Post-hospital care should be available only on a pay-as-you-go basis.  No one has ever died from lack of medical care in this country anyway.   Untreated medical conditions do not add to the national healthcare costs, just the opposite.   If untreated medical conditions are left to fester, mother nature will keep our costs down if you give her time.    It’s our efforts to pay for that care that is the problem.   We are just prolonging the inevitable, throwing good money after bad.

People who do not have healthcare insurance should simply solve their problems by getting a job that pays well and provides a good insurance plan.  If unemployment is high in their hometown, they can easily move away and start over somewhere else.    If you are sick, disabled, or terminated from your job then you should just tough it out.    If that is the case, those people should contact their minister who will help them with cash assistance or direct them to ample free care available through charities.   There are so many charities and well-funded church bank accounts  that these people will find all the help they need at no cost to anyone  except fellow congregants.   If local churches and charities are not able to cover the cost of your medical care, then you should accept that in this country we expect people to fend for themselves or die quietly.   Or pick a different church.

Nursinghome patients are frequently scamming the system by faking poverty to get Medicaid, and many of them are millionaires anyway.  There are about 27,000 skilled nursing home beds in Alabama, 65% of those are paid for by Medicaid.   This forum is outraged that so many millionaires are draining our wallets with their fraudulent scheming.   Once discharged, they can return to their homes where wealthy family members and servants will continue their care.

If you are disabled, then we need to investigate your case carefully so that in the event that your disability spontaneously resolves, then you can get your first job and get off our backs.   Chances are they are scamming the system anyway by secretly working in order to avoid paying taxes.

In our search for welfare cheats and scammers, we will probably have to also condemn truly needy people who will be axed from program roles.   We sort of regret this, but this is simply the price they have to pay.    We resented giving them help that they probably didn’t deserve anyway.   At any rate, our most important goal is to reduce our taxes (this includes all of us who rake in more than $250,000 per year), not to create a healthcare system for the slovenly and undeserving.

In the end, large cuts in funding like the GOP Healthcare bill will have no bad effects on the truly needy while those cuts will ease the burdens of people who struggle to get by on meager annual incomes north of $250,000.   Those cuts will also serve to protect the entitlement programs considered  important, like the ones we are signed up for and would not want reduced.

Liberals are wacko do-gooders who have irrational beliefs and fail to understand the necessity of facing the grim realities of the modern age.   We cannot afford to care for too many disabled & sick people, and it is best to let nature take it's course with all of them lest the burdens of doing so wreck our nation.   Liberals are crazy to think that this is unfair, or that sick/disabled people and their families won’t just get jobs when forced to do so.    Making assistance available encourages people to pretend they are sick & disabled on a huge scale.

So the majority of people willing to post on this forum are in favor of a national healthcare policy that boils down to survival of the fittest and natural selection.   If you can’t afford healthcare then in short order you, your family and children will be eliminated from the gene pool anyway….

Problem solved, that was easy.   Now let’s all have a mint julip.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Final summary
Date:	6/27/2017 12:27:43 PM

annnnd your still and idiot.

Bbefore Obozocare - were people just dying left and right and center all over the place?  No they could purchase healtcare without the Government putting a gun in their face to force it.

Before Obozocare - People who could not afford insurace went to Drs and hospitals for *gasp* healthcare many at reduced costs, many were written off by the practice or hospital and guess what many still were under Obozocare.

You never did answer why a human right vs constitutional right can be limited.  Cause Lord knows that the government would never think to put limits on a *right*

So in finally summary you are still a long winded liberal mental health patient who only wants to see Obozocare(even though it was designed to fail and insurance providers are leaving it faster then the Titanic) or its eventual designed bastard child single payer.  

We get it, you drank the antifreeze or had lead paint on your crib.  You advocate for no personal responsibility, the government is always there to take responisbility for your bills and decisions without any limits.

Name:	phil -	Reply
Subject:	Final summary
Date:	6/27/2017 12:27:43 PM

annnnd your still and idiot.

Bbefore Obozocare - were people just dying left and right and center all over the place?  No they could purchase healtcare without the Government putting a gun in their face to force it.

Before Obozocare - People who could not afford insurace went to Drs and hospitals for *gasp* healthcare many at reduced costs, many were written off by the practice or hospital and guess what many still were under Obozocare.

You never did answer why a human right vs constitutional right can be limited.  Cause Lord knows that the government would never think to put limits on a *right*

So in finally summary you are still a long winded liberal mental health patient who only wants to see Obozocare(even though it was designed to fail and insurance providers are leaving it faster then the Titanic) or its eventual designed bastard child single payer.  

We get it, you drank the antifreeze or had lead paint on your crib.  You advocate for no personal responsibility, the government is always there to take responisbility for your bills and decisions without any limits.

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Final summary
Date:	6/27/2017 12:34:08 PM (updated 6/27/2017 12:38:32 PM)

Bill and Hillary tried for years to pass a universal health care plan to no avail. Finally, Obama comes along, and through total deception, through an untold number of "lies" and every other way possible, he succeeded in passing Obama Care. It even took the Supreme Court to "weasel" word their justification to get the bill passed on March 23, 2010. After eight years, the Affordable Health Care Act has proven to "unaffordable", and a total disaster. Thousands if not millions of people, as a result of "lies'", lost their doctors, and their insurance plans, and became worse off because of this debacle. It's time for you to retreat to your warm "cocoon".

Name:	Buteye -	Reply
Subject:	Final summary
Date:	6/27/2017 12:36:36 PM

Well said.