| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 7:39:31 AM
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Just saw that job "losses" slowed in June ... "no growth", just businesses are not cutting people at the same rate they were. Sad after the massive spending we are still not seeing any results in terms of growth.
Gee, we could have not wasted a trillion dollars and provided tax cuts to people, combined with business tax credits to "create" jobs and we would have been adding jobs by now.
But if cap and trade passes, look for job losses to accelerate as businesses can not compete and move manufacturing to other countries where they can.
But, we will just add more government jobs to make up for it ... after all, a government job is just as good for the economy as a private sector job. NOT!!!
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 8:28:44 AM
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Have you seen an ACTUAL numbers as to how many government jobs have been created since the Administration took office?
I haven't and I'm wondering if this has actually materialized?
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 9:34:14 AM
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new government jobs/ -of course, if the government is involved there's going to be an increase in government. Who will be first? Well as the below few paragraphs, from day 1 it will be lawyers, accountants, and other government toads. It will be a long time before we see actual government numbers, because the government will probably fudge them to make the ratio of new private jobs to new governemnt jobs look good.
here's part of an article from the very beginning of the stimulus plan:
""By David M. Herszenhorn
updated 5:10 a.m. CT, Fri., Feb. 20, 2009
WASHINGTON - The first hiring spree to result from the $787 billion stimulus plan might not involve construction workers or teachers but government auditors, investigators and lawyers who will try to track all of the taxpayer money being spent on economic recovery.
With the White House and Democratic leaders in Congress under pressure to show that the stimulus money will be put to good use, the bill President Obama signed this week directs more than $350 million to oversight, virtually guaranteeing boom times in the field of government accountability. ""
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 10:01:24 AM
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Hound,
-Your above question on numbers got me interested so I decided to volunteer (i.e., unpaid/free) to be your reseach assistance as you watch Morning Joe. Apparantly there are alot of people estimating, but few real numbers as yet. But below is a piece I found that comments on a White House early estimate of 600,000 government jobs.
""By Jeff Poor
Business & Media Institute
1/7/2009 4:11:06 PM
‘Creating or Saving 3 Million Jobs’
... on Jan. 7, at a press conference naming Nancy Killefer the Treasury Department’s first “chief performance officer,” a position created to track government spending, he (Obama) told reporters the stimulus, or “economic recovery and reinvestment plan,” would require “dramatic investments to revive our flagging economy – save or create 3 million new jobs, mostly in the private sector.”
....“Obama’s team is pitching a plan that will cost between $675 billion and $775 billion, one that creates three million jobs, 80 percent of them in the private sector,” Tapper (a reporter) said. “But they will face skeptics.”
....Tapper illustrated this same point on his ABCNews.com blog and included Republican Senate Minority Leader McConnell's comments: “Well, do we really want to create 20 percent of the jobs in the public sector?” McConnell said. “That would be 600,000 new government jobs. That’s about the size of the post office workforce.”
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 10:07:48 AM
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That may not tell the whole story ... a significant portion of the stimulus is going to organizations and non profits for job training programs, etc. While these are not officially government jobs, they are created, then go away as soon as the money runs out. Not really very economically stimulating for the long term. Even the job training activity itself is a bit of a waste ... lets assume it is a great program, but unless you are stimulating the private sector to create the jobs that the training will ready them for, it has been a huge flush of our tax dollars.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 3:05:34 PM
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I actually did a google on this topic this morning and could not come up with anything recent on government job creation.
WW, I can appreciate what you are saying, but they are still jobs and people are still producing and tangibles are being created. These days, what constitutes a "permanent job"? If I go to work for a new private business and it fails, I'm still jobless and unproductive.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 3:34:08 PM
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My only point is that the job is being created with tax payer dollars or borrowings .... not a real job created by the private sector. There is and will be some stimulus impact to that job ... but because it only lasts as long as the government funding lasts, the job will go away and at some point be absorbed by the private sector.
I am sure the hope is that the economy will be moving in the right direction by then, and that will be easier to accomplish. But at the rate other things are changing ... I am not so sure.
For every view, you can normally find a counter view point, but I hear a lot that we will start seeing GDP growth be flat in 3rd qtr (which is good) and positive in the 4th. It seems everyone believes we will have a VERY soft recovery in 2010 and if we see job growth, it will be minimal. There are projects that by mid 2011 we will be in another downturn if cap and trade passes, adding a value added tax, the increase in personal income taxes, higher energy costs, national health care ... along with the huge deficits creating rising inflation and interest rates.
But time will tell. I hope it doesn't but everything looks like that is right on the mark.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 7:25:21 PM
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I feel like I've got whiplash. One day a few economists will say that things are looking up, then the next day some new numbers come out and things are looking down.
I worry about it. I know I have a few friends that are teetering on losing their jobs. Literally going week to week.
And then there is the bankruptsy in California. They say that will reverberate throughout the country -- and CA is not the only state in trouble. So in addition to additional federal taxes, we're probably going to see our state and county taxes going up too.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 8:14:35 PM
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The catastrophic effects of electing Barack Obama President of the United States have yet to be fully realized. Maybe the history books of the future will explain how this happened and how Americans got their freedoms back.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Actual Numbers
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Date:
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7/1/2009 9:59:07 PM
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Hound: In April 2009 the economy lost very close to 600,000 jobs. Government payroll the same month increased by 66,000 jobs. It has been a consistent trend that if it continues will be the end of our prosperity for a long, long time.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/1/2009 10:02:59 PM
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You are starting to see the reality. BTW, states and counties can not file bankruptcy. It is interesting what is going on in California. They refuse to cut anymore or raise their taxes higher, yet they do not have sufficient funds to operate. They are issuing IOU's. Wells Fargo said they will not accept. So in lieu of bankruptcy they will be forced to just start shutting down services and departments .... which by default are additional cuts.
Florida may be next. They do not have a state income tax and there are so many property foreclosures and values going down, their property tax revenue is falling too.
That is why so many of us have been saying, implementing cap and trade on business now is the wrong time (if ever), raising individual taxes now is wrong, and most of the stimulus money takes too long to spend to have an impact so real results could have benefited the country quicker with targeted "tax cuts" and incentives to business (rather than the penalties that are being implemented).
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| Name: |
JustAGuy
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| Subject: |
Actual Numbers
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Date:
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7/1/2009 11:12:00 PM
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MM ... I've learned the hard way that you are a "facts" guy, so I don't doubt your post. But could you cite your source for these numbers? Thanks.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Job Losses
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Date:
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7/2/2009 7:41:07 AM
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But you can't blame Obama for what is going on in CA and the other states. I understand you may not like Obama's policies, but from what I can see, it appears that we're just starting to see things fall apart that have been a while in the making. I'm not even sure that it is political... After all the governor of CA is a Republican. I think what is happening transends politics -- now the solutions and the management of the problem may differ by political party.
It's just scary.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Just Turn on CNBC now
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Date:
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7/2/2009 8:49:56 AM
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watch the horrible news and that even the dept of labor said with the jobs report that further deteriation is expected. They are now saying unemployment may hit 11%.
Hope and change ... oh yeah it is working .... no it is making things worse ... much worse.
It is so interesting that when unemployment was aroung 5% under Bush, the liberals were saying it was too high and that the jobs created were not "quality" jobs. Where are they now screaming and yelling about the current direction. Bush inherited a severe recession from Clinton when the Tech bubble collapsed, and then 9/11 happened.
The difference is Bush did the "right" things to get the economy moving and people back to work. Obama is implementing is "agenda" reguardless of the impact on the economy and people.
This is so sad. Don't say that many of us warned of this during the election.
Now the "Hope" is that Obama and the dems are booted from office and stop this move to socialism and destroying the economy and country and that we get "change" in leadership to and administration that is Pro America, pro employment and pro capitalism.
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| Name: |
Council Roc Doc
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| Subject: |
Just Turn on CNBC now
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Date:
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7/2/2009 10:49:39 AM
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From the ABC News Business Unit (not exactly a conservative bastion), there are now 14.7 million unemployed! This rate has increased 4.6% since the start of the recession. But wait, I though Obozo said the stimulus was working?? If you count those who either have given up looking for work or those who are working part time but need full time jobs to support families etc, the unemployment rate is a staggering 16.5%.
This is what you get when you put a community organizer in charge of straightening out a sickly economy. I'm convinced that tax CUTS would have given us at least the same results without the massive debt that we now have incurred with the "stimulus package". The problem is, small business owners are too frightened of what is around the corner to start hiring, and it all starts with them.
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| Name: |
lazarous
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| Subject: |
And now...
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Date:
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7/2/2009 10:56:42 AM
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.. they are talking Stimulus 2. That in itself is an admission that stimulus 1 ain't working.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
right on the mark
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Date:
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7/2/2009 11:20:58 AM
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now they are trying to figure out if our first program failed, what can we really do that will work. Hit tax cuts and incentives for business. Stop wasteful governemnt spending.
And I heard a spokesperson today saying that Obama said that he would create or "save" 3.5 million jobs and they feel they are exceeding their own expectations. I can not believe they are trying to say they are doing a good job with the job losses we are seeing. All they keep saying is it would have been worse and they have "saved" far more jobs that would have been lost.
WHAT A JOKE ... who has ever used that measure in the past and how can it be measured? They can say whatever they want.
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| Name: |
Council Roc Doc
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| Subject: |
right on the mark
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Date:
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7/2/2009 11:40:26 AM
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Why bother with a stimulus 2? News is now that repayment monies received by the Treasury Dept are NOT going towards relieving the public debt, but are being recycled out again to banking entities. Sort of like an unending stimulus package with the Treasury acting as a credit union. Some say there is a 5 year window that they get to play with this money without any proceeds going directly to pay down the TARP original outlay. unfreakinbelievable. Congress is indeed asleep at the wheel while America is more concerned with MJ's funeral arrangements.
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| Name: |
Astro
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| Subject: |
I wonder
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Date:
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7/2/2009 2:31:46 PM
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how many on this forum that voted for Obama can still say that this is the change they voted for. If this is what they wanted then that is their right and they did the correct thing for them but I suspect that they believed what he said during the campaign. Our elected officials are not just asleep but they are brain dead and we need to take them off life support in the next election. Once California raises taxes and runs off the remaining business there will be a lot higher employmnet. That will also apply to all the other states that have been stupid with their budgets and wasteful spending.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
I wonder
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Date:
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7/2/2009 2:52:29 PM
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You raise a good point .... why not do a new thread and ask that question. I wonder who will say they are happy with the direction and it is what they expected when they voted for BO. I would guess few will step up to the plate and say that.
I would have a great deal of respect for some of them if they admitted it was a mistake and he sold them a bill of goods ... but most of them are spinless so doubt you will get any taking a stance one way or the other.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I wonder
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Date:
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7/2/2009 3:18:06 PM
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What is happening is what I expected when I voted for Obama. The US economy is not a sports car that can be whipped around -- it's more like a huge freighter. So I didn't expect Obama to have the economy whipped into shape in 6 months. Most of the economists I have heard had said that we might have a weak recovery by the end of the year. Personally, I think that is optimistic.
I don't believe that the problems with the ecomomy have their roots over the past decade or so. I think some of it started back as far as RR. I think Clinton did some things that contributed to it, and I think the Bush administration did some things. People in the US did some things -- you see, I don't buy that everyone unknowingly bought into shaky mortgage products and had too much credit pushed on them. I used to get about 10 credit card offers a week -- and I shredded every one of them. Part of it was a cultural value that said, I want it now and come h*ll or high water, I'm going to get it now.
I still don't have a problem with the President. I'm watching where this health care thing is going. And I don't like the jobless numbers any better than you do. But, I didn't expect that he would take office and everything would immediately be okay. I think we're in some kind of economic evolution.
And I'm not sorry I didn't vote Republican. I think the Republican party is in shambles and if we held an election tomorrow, there is no one that I would actually vote for.
Now y'all can just jump all over this. and WW, I don't think I am a coward for saying what I think. We'd be in this same situation if John McCain were President.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
I disagree
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Date:
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7/2/2009 3:38:21 PM
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we would be in the same situation no matter who was in office.
You can believe what you believe and at least you stood up and said it.
I agree you don't flip a switch with a new administration and all is good. The key for me is if the things that have been done are helping or improving? Does it look like the policies are working? And the answer for me comes down a huge NO! Things are getting worse not better, despite the massive spending and buying GM. The type of stimulus he is wasting "our" tax dollars on will have little to no impact and is way to slow.
He is making people suffer, when there is much faster ways to stimulate the economy and get people working.
Then when you layer on massive tax increases, penalties on business with cap and trade ... you put more people out of work and stop whatever recovery had a chance.
I firmly believe he does not give two cents as to what is happening to the economy and people losing jobs, as long as he can get "his" agenda passed while he can with the puppets in congress. I am sure you are proud to add Al Frankin to the likes of Pelosi, Reid, Waters, Frank, Boxer, etc.
heck, he is flying his wife to NYC for dinner and a show on tax payer dollars while more people lose their jobs and benefits. His wife goes and serves homeless people in $800 "imported" tennis shoes.
You know if Bush was doing that the dems would be saying he was a republican snob that did not care about the "common person". Bush had more compassion in his baby finger than Obama will ever have. His idea of compassion is just take for others and make more people rely on government with hand out and more government programs. Most people want a helping hand, not a hand out. But when there is no help and all that is offered is the hand out, they have no choice.
And that is Obama in a nutshell ... don't give a choice, governemnt will think and make decisions for you.
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| Name: |
Astro
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| Subject: |
I wonder
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Date:
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7/2/2009 3:41:45 PM
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I agree that the economy is a large ship that is slow to turn but I believe it is another thing to blow holes in its bottom and hope that it will continue to float. I didn't vote for McCain but rather against Obama. I was also not happy with Bush but I guess I am just to conservative. His writings and associations convinced me that he wishes to destroy the country I love and the freedoms I cherish. During the campaign he promised no tax increases for anything on people earning less that $250,000 and that seems to be gone. He promised open government and complete transparency. Congress is passing laws without any reading them must less have an understanding of their impact. Even the press is starting to get angry over his handling of press conferences. Questions that are reviewed ahead of time and only chosen people are invited to these town hall meetings. If this is open governement I want no part of it. I hope after the government chooses your doctor and what medicines you may have Obama will still be your choice in the next election. Thanks for being honest in your response.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
I wonder
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Date:
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7/2/2009 3:45:22 PM
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You and many others don't and won't have a problem with President Obama and the Democrat party...it's always someone else's fault.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Well I have a bit of a problem
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Date:
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7/2/2009 7:02:00 PM
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with the President.. thus far, we have nationalized major portions of the banking system, automative industry and moving fast and determined on the energy and health care?? Y'all voted for change.. we got it..
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Don't go there
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Date:
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7/3/2009 7:18:54 AM
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about the screening of people for media events. It is a well known fact that Bush screened the audiences for his events, it would only be Republicans and mostly military. Most of his speeches on Iraq were in front of MILITARY audiences.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
It's Not always someone else's
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Date:
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7/3/2009 7:20:58 AM
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fault -- but I don't see how you all can think that Obama would turn an economy in severe crisis in 6 months.
And it seems to me that some people NEVER want to blame anyone other than Obama.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Well I have a bit of a problem
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Date:
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7/3/2009 7:25:01 AM
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I think that is a bit of an overstatement. It's not like the entire or even a major portion of the banking, financial and auto industries have been nationalized. When you look at it, it's a very small portion. I didn't agree with the bailouts from where I sit, but, I'm not an economist.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
It always starts small
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Date:
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7/3/2009 7:48:48 AM
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A move to socialism normally starts just the way Obama is doing it. With excuses why, people say (like you) that it is not that big of deal, then the government keeps taking more and more control.
Soon you may hear, that is how the government will solve the massive deficits. If they just nationalized more businesses then they would have 100% of the profits and taxes on business would not matter since all of it will go to government. Watch.
I for one will not ever buy a Government Motors car.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Actual Numbers
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Date:
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7/6/2009 10:43:17 AM
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Sorry I have been away for a while. You can get the numbers from the US Dept of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics. They put out a monthly report. Of course you will never hear these numbers in the government media as they would reflect the truth about the Obama administration and the havoc he is wreaking on the private sector.
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