| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Could political correctness
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Date:
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11/6/2009 12:04:26 PM
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have contributed to the Muslim murders in Ft. Hood. Was the Army prevented from dealing with a known radical?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Could political correctness
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Date:
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11/6/2009 1:09:13 PM
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The answer is obvious. This is a case of domestic Islamo-fascist terrorism. The guy was giving out Koran's the morning of the shooting and self identified himself as a Palestinian at his mosque despite the fact that he was born in the U.S.
Can you believe the government media is trying to spin this as pre-stress disorder syndrome, a term they totally made up?!?!? This spin is beyond ridiculous, it highlights a true mental illness in the mainstream media that they cannot recognize this for what it is. What a sad day. One of the victims was a pregnant woman.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I can't believe
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Date:
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11/6/2009 5:28:24 PM
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that even in the face of a horrible tragedy that you both would try to call it political spin.
The Washington Post had an article this morning about the man. Nothing in the article suggested that anyone was trying to write this off as a PTSD. The man had made known that he didn't support the wars in the Middle East. He was severely agitated about our continued presence. He didn't get along with his co-workers, refused to participate in office group pictures because he didn't want to be photographed with a woman. He went to his mosque to find a wife, but couldn't find anyone as religious as he was. Clearly, his beliefs were not exactly consistent with that of a professional soldier.
No one can say what causes another person to snap. Whether his political or religious beliefs or his personal frustrations -- only if/or until they can interview him, can anyone say that definitively it was Muslim terrorism.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
I can't believe
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Date:
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11/6/2009 5:43:18 PM
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"The man had made known that he didn't support the wars in the Middle East. He was severely agitated about our continued presence. He didn't get along with his co-workers, refused to participate in office group pictures because he didn't want to be photographed with a woman. He went to his mosque to find a wife, but couldn't find anyone as religious as he was".
Yall do a darn good job of confusing CAT. The above does not seem to describe a soldier?
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
I can't believe
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Date:
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11/6/2009 6:04:04 PM
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Of course some political correctness contributed to this guy being left in the Army so long.
-When I was in the Army and then later in the government I was called on teh caarpet several times for being politically incorrect.
-The problem with political correctness is that it leads to "self censorship." peolpe become ovesensitized to 'saying'or "hearing" anything politically incorrect.
-There was a Dr on TV tonight who went t o classes with this major. This Dr. said Hassan even then would give speeches/papers on US anti-terror operations instead of medical subjects. Why did this continue? Cuz no one had the cahonnes to stop it. Why? ..cus the Counil on American Arab relations , teh ACLU, etc would be all over them.
-That said, the Army and teh nation can't let concern turn to discrimination turn to frenzy. So there is a line we all have to walk if we want America to be America. However,, ...I think we have gone way to far into "self censorship" to the detriment of our core values.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Well....
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Date:
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11/6/2009 9:48:40 PM
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Right now, he is in ICU and they are trying to save him. Go figure. Sounds kinda crazy to me.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Justify, justify, justify,
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Date:
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11/6/2009 9:57:15 PM
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so, why the H*ll was he still in the military. I understand all the posts, but something's got to change. This Muslim didn't "snap"; this was planned for a long time. Snapping is when some idiot frags his platoon sgt. Snapping is not premeditated murder.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What's political about this?
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Date:
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11/7/2009 8:08:13 AM
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Calling him a terrorist is political? As for the PTSD, it was in Newsweek and the AP. You know Hound, there is more to the government media than the Washington Post. The guy started off by yelling Allahu Ahkbar which is the same term used by the ISLAMIC TERRORISTs that hijacked the planes on 9/11, the same term used by the ISLAMIC TERRORISTs that shot and killed people in Mumbai, the same term that ISLAMIC TERRORISTs have used all over the place when they jump up in a crowded bus or restaurant in Israel before they become a homicide bomber. Why is it so hard to admit that the guy was a homegrown, domestic Islamofascist terrorist? His service record has been released to the media and he was reprimanded on more than one occasion for preaching Islam to patients. On the morning of the shooting he was handing Korans. He was under investigation by the FBI for frequenting websites that preached jihad.......but there is something wrong with us for concluding the obvious. If it walks like a duck Hound.....
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Could political correctness
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Date:
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11/7/2009 8:25:34 AM
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The facts are not all in. Of the several conclusions that could come of this incident, none bodes well for Islamic persons in this country. If he was truly ill (my intuition tells me otherwise), compassion is in order. There will be revulsion, recoil, and given the penchant by some factions, retaliation.
If we can detect some truth to the media coverage, he went through the phases of premeditation and preparation… a sleeper. There has been a recent (internet post) call from al Qaeda for jihadists to act on their own. It was termed “grassroots” (however THAT got translated from Arabic.)
HOWEVER, this topic is about the contribution of political correctness to the Islamic shooter’s ability to dwell in the military system while exhibiting disturbing behavior. The answer to that is clear to every one of us.
If you want to be a member of a group, show your colors (this is metaphorical for flag). If you are in our military, your colors need to be red, white, and blue… not green and white. If you are waving the wrong colors, you are in the wrong group.
I have this to day to his chain-of-command, “Here’s your sign.”
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I can't believe
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Date:
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11/7/2009 12:47:02 PM
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No. Professional soldiers don't express their personal views about the wars they are sent to fight. They are apolitical.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
It's hard to understand
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Date:
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11/7/2009 12:52:17 PM
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why they let this continue on for so long, without someone taking some action. As a leader, military or civilian, one has an obligation to address a problem, even when it is difficult or politically incorrect. I understand he was "counseled" and probably "damned by faint praise" in his OER, but someone should have done more.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You don't know that
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Date:
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11/7/2009 12:53:46 PM
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he planned this for a long time.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
None of the Reports I saw
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Date:
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11/7/2009 1:00:45 PM
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Even vaguely thought this was an incidence of PTSD. My comments about the WP was that it offered insight into his charcter. It was certainly not the only account I read.
But, clearly he was mentally deranged.
This is my theory, based on nothing at all but what I've read so far -- I think he snapped. As a Muslim, he could not commit suicide. He decided to go out as a martyr, which is why he yelled "Allah Archbah (sp?)". He expected to be killed.
He was a terrorist, but I don't think he planned it a la Columbine.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Could political correctness
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Date:
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11/7/2009 1:07:01 PM
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I expect that the Army will circle the wagons on this, and we'll probably never know exactly what drove him to this. I've been led to believe that the Medical Corp of the Army is probably a little less vigilant about the persuasions of their members than it may be in a combat or combat support union.
I do think it ironic that in the psychiatric community, that they didn't look more closely at his agitation about the wars -- He didn't exactly make a secret about it. You'd think they would be the first ones to be concerned.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
None of the Reports I saw
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Date:
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11/7/2009 3:43:45 PM
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Fair enough that you didn't see the reports in question but until you determine the reports were wrong my suggestion is to not discount this tact being taken by portions of the government media just because you didn't read it in the Washington Post. You admit he was a terrorist but not an Islamic terrorist. Simply bewildering given what we already know. Hound, we are at war with Islamofascists, they want to kill us, and until folks like you (not the loony left who will never get it) regain the understanding you had on 9/11 we are never going to have the political will to fight back.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I agree that we are at war
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Date:
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11/7/2009 8:53:45 PM
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but are we at war with ourselves? The man was in the US Army for at least 10 years. He grew up in Virginia. There are no indications that he was associated with any fundamentalist groups. The mosque he belonged to has excellent relations with the community in VA.
It seems to me very difficult to draw a line between those that would harm us and those that are us.
Someone asked the question today -- if he had been handing out Bibles and then went and killed a bunch of people, would we consider him a terrorist? No. We've got to be careful that we don't apply that term to someone who does something horrible, and also happens to be a Muslim. There are deranged Christians, deranged Jews as well as deranged Muslims. We can't fit them all neatly in one box.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
YEWS! we are at war
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Date:
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11/7/2009 11:05:07 PM
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Hound,
it's not that Hassan "...did something horrible and also happens to be Muslem..." ...it's that he did something horrible because he was a Muslim...a Muslim who came to believe that taking up arms against American military is just and acceptible and even honorable. He is no different from a jihadist that sets a roadside bomb, puts a plane into a building, kills a recruiter, etc. It's his actions that make him a terrorist.
-Muslems, all Muslems, believe we are infidels by definition....it's clearly written in the Koran. But not all Muslims think that they should actually go out and kill all infidels (although killing infidels is mentioned more than 100 times in the Koran)
-Terrorism, as defined by the US government, depends on two things: the type of action taken and the purpose of the action. Major Hassan's actions and purpose make him a terrorist. Now was he rational or insane??? Who knows? Who cares? We find it hard in the West to believe any suicide bomber is rational or sane, ....but we have no trouble seeing him or her as a terrorist.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
YEWS! we are at war
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Date:
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11/8/2009 8:51:48 AM
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I worked with the Iraqi government when I was stationed in Baghdad in 2007. As I have said before… the people of Islam neither understand by, nor live by the concept of “…life , liberty, and the pursuit of happiness...” the basis of our society. That Hasan would take innocent lives, denies the owners of those lives their God given right to enjoy liberty and pursue happiness. And, he is purported to have invoked the greatness of God while executing his plan to execute the terrified innocents.
For Muslims in the US, our Constitutional freedoms are in conflict with the tenants of the Koran (Quran?) For those of you have not tried to read from the Koran, the entire book reads like our (frightening) book of the Revelation. It is allegorical. Eminent Middle Eastern scholar and author, Bernard Lewis argues that the Middle East is currently backward and its decline was a largely self-inflicted condition resulting from both culture and religion.
We believe that we have a choice to be holy or hedonistic. Christians believe that they (we) will stand before God and be held in judgment (in the process, incurring an overflowing ration of our own propensity to judge.) We are cautioned that only God may judge. Christians are also taught to regard God as “our Father” and that the best access to his is “as a child”.
Islamic peoples allow men (NOT WOMEN) to judge on earth and mete out punishment according to their own volition. God is now and he is wrathful. Heaven will be the result of all of this strident enforcement of allegorical rules. By the way, the seventy two virgins are also allegorical… can also mean seventy two white grapes.
Only recently has jihad been ADDED conveniently as the sixth pillar of Islam. Peaceful Muslims will tell you that jihad is a personal struggle against infidelity. Islamic extremists have co-opted jihad to extend this “struggle” to killing “infidels”… who in the Koran are termed “children of the book” [Bible]. Until the outbreak of Islamic terrorism, children of the book were, by instruction from the Koran, well tolerated. Indeed, in Iraq and Persia, Christians and Jews lived unmolested in those regions.
Recall that most of the religious cults in this country have sprung from co-opting from the Book of Revelation. By law, we keep that in check. Islam IS the law in Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Afghanistan… you get my point. Al Qaeda is a religious cult that leaked out. Hasan is part of the flood, as the dam… which held back the cultural failures of Islam… was allowed into disrepair.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Great explanation, MAJ
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Date:
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11/8/2009 9:02:13 AM
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Now let's see what Hound can conjure up from the democrat book of politically correct thinking.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
YEWS! we are at war
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Date:
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11/8/2009 9:34:43 AM
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I have read the Koran. And I agree with many of the explanations that you have stated.
However, Without knowing more about the mental state of the shooter, I can't just attribute his attack to terrorism just because he is a Muslim. Because what you are saying that any time a Muslim does anything bad, it is because of jihad. If a Christian soldier had done the same attack, you would have accepted that he snapped.
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Aha, Hound
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Date:
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11/8/2009 9:59:59 AM
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read the koran, betcha she stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last night, too.
Quack, quack, it's a duck, admit it.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Unjustifed Inductive Reasoning
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Date:
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11/8/2009 10:02:00 AM
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If a Christian had shouted "God is Great!" during an act of terrorism, indeed, he would be a religious fanatic. We have those in this country… “ya think?” But our laws do not allow it and our religion does not allow it. I could extrapolate that violent jihad (or white supremacy) is an acquired mental illness. Whenever one rationalizes that it is acceptable to kill others in the name of God, that person is criminally insane. My compassion for his insanity ended when he took the first shot at the first innocent. I would be compassionate had he simply ended his own life because his faith conflicted with his duty.
By the way, he will be pronounced and celebrated as a martyr.
That said: Do not tell me... (or anyone else) what I think (they think). That is one of the most inane phrases spoken in adversity. You do not know what I think... anymore than I know what you think.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
YEWS! we are at war
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Date:
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11/8/2009 10:23:14 AM
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Hound, the problem with your hypothesis is one of context. If a Christian soldier screamed God is Great in the midst of mass murder in the context of a world-wide Christian jihad where Christians all over the world were yelling the same expression and doing the same terrible things then you and I would rightly call him a Christian terrorist. And yet no such context exists so you and I would rightly conclude that a man claiming to be a Christian in this instance was unhinged. The context and the facts all point to a domestic Islamic terrorist act that was allowed to happen because of political correctness in the military and likely won't called what it is because of political correctness in the government and government media. In fact, they will go out of their way to the point of absurdity (i.e., the pre-PTSD explanation by Newsweek and AP) to avoid stating what is as obvious as the nose on your face. Quack, quack.....its a duck.....admit it.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
They are not insane
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Date:
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11/8/2009 10:25:42 AM
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criminally or otherwise. They are evil and do evil things. They act in cold-blooded, premeditated ways and understand exactly what they are doing. They are not insane.....
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I spent some time in the Middle East. I was curious at to what it said. I didn't read it in Arabic, I read an English translation.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Unjustifed Inductive Reasoning
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Date:
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11/8/2009 4:26:03 PM
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Have it your way.
You believe what you believe, I believe what I believe.
It doesn't really matter at this point. People are dead, people are hurt. If he lives, the military will court martial him, perhaps he will be executed.
So, what's next? Would you have all Muslims mustered out of the military as potential terrorists? Or maybe you would prefer to treat them as we did those of Japanese decendent during WWII?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
They are not insane
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Date:
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11/8/2009 4:26:56 PM
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Who is "they"? Would you condemn all Muslims for the actions of a few?
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
YEWS! we are at war
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Date:
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11/8/2009 4:30:40 PM
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I'm not convinced. I still think it is the act of one deranged man who snapped. He happened to be Muslim. To me, he is no different than the Oklahoma City bomber, or the kid who snapped and killed people at VA Tech a few years ago. He was Asian. Was it some vast Asian conspiracy?
Much different from Columbine, which was premeditated and planned a year in advance.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
They are not insane
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Date:
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11/8/2009 5:16:45 PM
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I'm talking about Islamic terrorists. Don't bother with the intellectually dishonest war on Islam crap. This is not about peaceful Muslims, this is about Islamofascists that kill on behalf of the Mohammad. I am most people could care less about their religious beliefs if they don't support the kind of terrorism that is being encountered all over the world.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Oblivious to the context
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Date:
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11/8/2009 5:18:17 PM
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Hound, just forget it. You are totally oblivious to the context of this event and are back to a pre-9/11 mentality. It is not worth the effort to get you to see what is so patently obvious to the rest of us....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I'm Not
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Date:
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11/8/2009 7:36:54 PM
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oblivious to the context -- I clearly see your point. I just don't necessarily buy it wholesale. Even if you are right, what would you do about it? How do you prevent such a thing from happening again?
I see that some of his colleagues are now coming out of the woodwork talking about their concerns about his fanaticism and his vocal condemnation of the wars.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Its like being an alcoholic
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Date:
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11/9/2009 8:12:40 AM
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To make things better you need to first admit there is a problem. There is a problem if Islamic terrorists are infiltrating our military don't you think? And by infiltration I include not only entering our military under the guise of loyal American and entering the military by radicalizing existing soldiers. So if we can actually admit that this guy was an Islamic terrorist then maybe we will not be so influenced by political correctness and a desire for diversity that a person exhibiting his behavior would get bounced.
As details emerge it appears that our military is more like a university campus than a military. Two points. First, apparently the guy in what was supposed to be a medical lecture stated that infidels (that would be you and I) should be beheaded and hot oil poured down their necks. Now in your local mosque this kind of talk is all the rage but for a man in the military to make such statements you would think it would generate some discussion and action. I can assure you if it was a Baptist doctor and he stated that all abortionists should be beheaded and hot oil poured down their necks he would be out of the military in a heartbeat.
Second, apparently one of the senior military leaders was quoted as saying he hoped that another victim of this tragedy wasn't diversity. This is the kind of idiocy you expect from a university professor, not a military commander. But that's what political correctness has done to us. Can you imagine if during WWII a Japanese-American soldier talks openly about the defeat of the U.S., then takes his gun and shouting tora, tora, tora as he opens fire at Ft. Hood and Eisenhower saying, "Gosh, that's a shame if this means an end to diversity in the military!" Somehow I doubt it.
Howard's book called the Death of Common Sense could not have predicted we would fall this far this fast.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
By the way
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Date:
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11/9/2009 8:13:25 AM
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
That was weird
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Date:
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11/9/2009 8:36:26 AM
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My previous post happened all by itself while I was typing.
Anyway, I was going to say that I am not exactly sure what needs to happen except the military needs to respond to Muslims that exhibit the same behavior and say the same things. And that response should include a general discharge. Granted, they will just go underground and remain silent before they act but there is nothing we can do about them. There is something we can and should do about those that overtly act like this guy.
And no, I do not believe that Muslims should be prevented from serving in the military.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
The more I'm hearing
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Date:
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11/9/2009 10:28:09 AM
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the more I am beginning to agree with you. There are classmates that are saying this didn't just start -- he has been spouting fundamentalist views for some time. Concerns were raised by classmates and colleagues and ignored. His supervisor is already making excuses that there were "problems" but "none that raised red flags".
Well, if spouting fundamentalist views aren't raising red flags in the military, then I have to concur that we have fallen prey to "political correctness".
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
The more I'm hearing
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Date:
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11/9/2009 2:01:03 PM
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Seems like our early impressions were just the tip of the iceberg with this guy. The more we hear the more it seems like the command were more concerned about harming their careers with a response to this guy's overt behavior than doing what is right. How far we've fallen.....
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
The more I'm hearing
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Date:
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11/9/2009 4:17:26 PM
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Political correctness and diversity are concepts which should never see the light of day in the military. You either accomplish the mission... or you don't.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
The more I'm hearing
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Date:
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11/9/2009 6:01:25 PM
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-I would agree that THE MISSION MUST always come first.
-However, that doesn't mean that programs like promoting diversity are not worthwhile and even significantly contribute to mission success. The point is they must never hinder valid mission success.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Diversity
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Date:
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11/9/2009 6:44:27 PM
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Please, tell me how the mix of race has ANYTHING to do with mission success. Please tell me that it matters that we have a representative sample of Hispanics and oriental folks when it comes to execution.
I want competent. I don’t give a d@mn if they are dark or female. SMEAC!
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| Name: |
wix
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| Subject: |
Now everyone
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Date:
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11/9/2009 7:01:49 PM
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please go back and read my original post. Political correctness probably caused this tragedy. Let's just hope the guilty heads roll among the General's who have made some really stupid statements about this preventable event.
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| Name: |
au67
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| Subject: |
The more I'm hearing
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Date:
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11/9/2009 7:28:22 PM
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Diversity is a word that should have no place in our language. It is a word preyed upon by the pimps of society and has no social redeeming value. You're either American or not.
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| Name: |
Yankee06
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| Subject: |
Diversity
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Date:
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11/9/2009 7:46:23 PM
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-Hmmmm, diversity is much more than race or sex, ...but we can discuss thoase.
--First, it's a given that mission comes first.
-But when I took a team into Africa for training nationals in US TTp, I firmly believe that the team's mix of races added to mission accomplishmnet.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Diversity is not the problem
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Date:
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11/9/2009 8:16:09 PM
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The problem where "political correctness" has taken us. In and of itself it isn't a problem -- it started out to just mean that one would be sensitive to others differences -- but it has come to mean that even when something is very wrong, we just won't say anything or do anything for fear of being accused of prejudice or bias.
I have to say that this situation is really hitting me close to home. I had at least 2 situations where I should have stood up and done something, but didn't because I didn't want to take the time to document, especially since I didn't think that I would get the support of my bosses.
My father had a crazy employee who actually posed a threat to others. Twice, he got it to the point where they could terminate her and twice, the bosses above him backed off. He finally got her to agree to take a disabilty retirement. He went to the woman's father and got him to provide documentation about her mental condition and appealed to the HR system.
If any good at all comes out of this, maybe it will be that people will have the courage to stand up and do something. It's way too easy to be passive and look the other way.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Diversity is not the problem
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Date:
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11/9/2009 10:10:41 PM
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Well that's all very interesting but in this case political correctness resulted in the cold blooded murder of 13 people, including a pregnant woman. When PC starts to result in the death of Americans we really need to revisit what is happening.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Diversity is not the problem
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Date:
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11/9/2009 11:11:17 PM
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Yes, but what can be done?
You can be sure that some Army heads will roll, but what's done is done. How do you change a culture?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Diversity is not the problem
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Date:
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11/10/2009 7:51:46 AM
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I was hoping you had some ideas. I think the long term problem is that even if an event like this happens and we return to some sense of normalcy for a while it won't last. For better or worse we seem to have a short memory. We see that even today as we revert back to a pre-9/11 mentality regarding who the enemy is and how to defeat them (which in the case of Islamofascists the only way is to kill them). For sure the leadership that makes stupid statements about how they hope another victim of this terrorist act isn't diversity should be "encouraged" to resign. That is a fish that stinks from the head. Sadly it won't happen because that mentality is consistent with our current commander in chief.
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Talullahhound
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I don't see how you can
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11/10/2009 10:46:43 AM
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lay this at the feet of Obama. Diversity and political correctness has been a cultural norm for quite some time, well before Obama was even on the political landscape. I believe it started back when we did away with "handicapped" and started referring to it as "special needs" to challenge the notion that those with physical handicaps are "less equal".
I think diversity is a good thing. We are a diverse culture -- but the problem is that we are no longer clear about how much "difference" should be tolerated.
I think after Viet Nam, our Army became the "kinder/gentler" Army. I was appalled when they came up with the slogan "An Army of One" because there is nothing about the Army that should encourage individualism. One conforms or one should get out.
Additionally, much was made after 9/11 to seperate the "good" Muslims from the "bad" (i.e. terrorists). To make allowances for their religious needs. We no longer expect them to assimilate into our culture.
We've raised generations of people who think that "individual" rights trump "societal" rights. This is the same culture that thinks everyone should get a trophy for just showing up. No one should be singled out and questioned about their beliefs or actions. Because "it's all good", until it isn't.
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MartiniMan
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Don't get me wrong
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11/10/2009 12:00:39 PM
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I am not placing this at Obama's feet, I am just saying that given his views it is unlikely he will be a change agent. Casey really expressed the same views as Obama and it is highly unlikely that his perspective either differs from the current CIC or would be altered by the current CIC. That is all I am saying.
This is a failure at the pointy edge of the command sword at multiple locations and times but it was driven by a top-down mentality that officers are not going to be willing to sacrifice their careers by disciplining a Muslim. Casey's statements indicate that this isn't going to change and Obama's horrendous response to this massacre and everything we know about him tells us he likewise will not affect change to the PC culture in the military.
Obama is not responsible for this guy's actions. He alone chose his course. Obama could choose to respond appropriately to this but he won't.
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Talullahhound
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Don't get me wrong
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11/10/2009 3:59:05 PM
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I agree with you that Obama will not be a agent of change for this.
Change will be slow in the Army. I don't see Casey riding off on his white steed to make sweeping policy changes. But, I suspect that there will be changes at the Division and lower levels. I think this is the kind of change that will be driven from the bottom. It's the soldiers, and the lower level officers that will be less willing to let this mistake rest.
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MartiniMan
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Tend to agree
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11/10/2009 4:05:54 PM
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and I really hops so. Takes courage to risk your career but when the stakes are so high you would hope and expect that at least in the military they will do the right thing.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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My observation
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11/10/2009 4:21:29 PM
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and there are others here who will likely disagree, but with the "kinder gentler" Army, people became much more concerned about their careers and were less likely to buck the system. Unfortunately, it is not just the uniformed military where this is the case, but even amongst the most senior civilians, who are engaged in the policy making process.
I think that is one of the reasons you don't see "great" leaders anymore. Less people willing to make an individual sacrifice for a greater good.
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MartiniMan
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Interesting book to read
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11/10/2009 4:40:45 PM
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that touches on that very subject. I got a Kindle for my birthday (50th so I got the larger print version) by Stephen Hayward called "Greatness: Reagan, Churchill, and the Making of Extraordinary Leaders" So many great anecdotes and quotes by both men but mostly Churchill that drives to your very point. Really a good read. My wife is beginning to loathe my Kindle......I need to hide it in a secure location while I am at work lest it fall ill under suspicious circumstances....
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Talullahhound
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Interesting book to read
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11/10/2009 7:13:08 PM
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Sounds interesting, I'll check it out.
Haven't gone to the Kindle yet -- but I'm thinking about it. My sister has one and she loves it.
Are you serious about the large print edition? Do they have such a thing?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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Interesting book to read
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11/11/2009 8:33:20 AM
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Well not really. The new version is larger but pretty pricey. With the leather cover to protect it it was over $500. I suspect there may be a way to increase the font size but I haven't tried. I really, really like it. No more carrying bulky books on trips and if you are on the road and finish a book you can download a new one in minutes for only $9.99. I figure it will save me money in the long run as I am typically a hardcover book buyer for non-fiction. I think there are some books that are too important not to be able to pass along like Glenn Beck's Arguing with Idiots......just kidding on that one (I haven't read it). Books like Bill Bennett's series on America the Last Best Hope, Biographies of the Founding Father's, etc.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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Interesting book to read
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11/11/2009 3:44:31 PM
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The not having to deal with bulky books is the reason I'm considering it. I've got books stacked everywhere. And considering that I never go away unless I take 3 books with me, the electronic reader is appealing. Considering what I would save in the price of books, it would pay for itself in a short time.
Hmm. My birthday is coming up.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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Interesting book to read
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11/11/2009 7:33:23 PM
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My apologies to Feb but I don't think you will be disappointed. Tell him its cheaper than a vintage Corvette. :-)
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