Forum Thread

Lake Martin Topics

(Lake Martin Specific)

111,143 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 7:30:23 PM

Off-Topic

Lakes Online Forum

83,605 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 9:33:24 PM

Boat Maintenance

Lakes Online Forum

5,193 messages

Updated 4/3/2024 3:47:36 AM

Lake Martin Fishing

(Lake Martin Specific)

4,169 messages

Updated 4/16/2024 3:16:57 AM

Jokes

Lakes Online Forum

4,169 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 11:05:05 PM

Sports

Lakes Online Forum

4,260 messages

Updated 3/24/2024 9:24:45 AM

Grilling & Recipes

Lakes Online Forum

2,976 messages

Updated 3/20/2024 11:53:43 PM

Lake Martin SCUBA

(Lake Martin Specific)

169 messages

Updated 5/31/2023 1:39:35 PM

Tallapoosa River Topics

Lakes Online Forum

98 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM

Forum Usage Rules

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Incompetency at the Top
Date:	11/10/2009 6:41:19 AM

Conservative pundit David Horowitz is calling for the firing of Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey, citing a recent interview in which Casey said the army hadn’t missed anything in dealing with Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, the man accused of killing 13 people last week during a rampage at Fort Hood, Texas.

“You have to view this segment of the Meet the Press interview with Army Chief of Staff Gen. George Casey to believe it — to believe that our army could be led by someone as incompetent in national security matters as this man showed he was, first by claiming that the army hadn’t “missed anything” in regard to the in-your-face warning signs exhibited by Major Hasan that he was a fanatical Muslim jihadist and an imminent threat to massacre our troops, by admitting that the army’s diversity policies had trumped its security policies, Horowitz writes on his blog.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whoa!!!
Date:	11/10/2009 10:29:21 AM

Firing the Chief of Staff of the Army? How stupid is that?

You do realize that Casey is the Chief of the entire US Army? He said that the Army is going to investigate the incident. And they are. It would be irresponsible of him to shoot from the hip in any way that would cause a backlash against other members of the uniformed services. And I'm sure he didn't want to make our soldiers who are deployed any more vulnerable, by giving any further credence to the idea that we are at war with Muslims or Islam. He has to walk a tight rope that some half-a$$ed journalist does not have to worry about. Casey was in the Middle East, so he is well aware of the nuances.

Secondly, the Chief is prepared for these press encounters by his staff. So if he was allowed to go on, without full information, then his staff should be fired, not the Chief.

You can be sure that some Army heads are going to roll over this at the unit and battalion levels and maybe even at the Division levels. But the CSA? I don't think so.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Whoa!!!
Date:	11/10/2009 4:58:48 PM

And the firing of the sub commander because his boat had a collision while he was asleep in his bunk after a 20 hour day is OK? Needs to be one way or the other. Maybe a CSA firing might get someone's attention.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Whoa!!!
Date:	11/10/2009 7:07:37 PM

Well, that would get attention. But, what would it accomplish? No, they will relieve a bunch of mid-level officers, maybe a one-star will get a letter of reprimand, but that will be the only official response. The civilian in the Pentagon who looked into the emails the major sent to the radical Inman under the guise of research will probably either be fired or moved.
My feeling is that any real change will come from the bottom up, not the top down. I suspect a lot of soldiers are not going to be embracing cultural and religious diversity.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I agree he should go
Date:	11/11/2009 8:26:41 AM

At first blush I tended to agree with Hound about this but the more I am learning the more I think he should be canned. I had forgotten that he was responsible for our ineffective approach to Iraq in the post-invasion period and was replaced by General Petreaus. I also saw the entire quote by him and what he really said was that a loss of diversity was a GREATER tragedy than 13 people being murdered. What an astounding lack of judgment. He should go....

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I agree he should go
Date:	11/11/2009 3:35:42 PM

I'm no Casey fan.
But, if he was fired, who would you put in his place? And what would they do differently? The sad truth is that no one is going to go out on the limb when it comes to this kind of thing.
And what would you do about diversity? Only allow white Christians in the military? But suppose they are radical too, like the OK City Bomber?

I have been thinking about this. What should the Army do differently? I really don't know. Theoretically, there is no penalty for standing up and saying that there is a problem with an individual. The process is there, but people perceive that they will be penalized for using it. As long as we have freedom of speech, wouldn't it be wrong for us to prosecute someone for just speaking their views?

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Never Misspeak
Date:	11/11/2009 4:31:46 PM

I was on the MNF-I staff during the change from GEN Casey to GEN Petreaus. GEN Casey is a more “diplomatic” general officer. GEN David Petreaus and GEN Ray Odierno are more… ah… forceful. Forceful is something that the terrorists, sheiks, and the Iraqi government better understood (understand). The firmness and directness… and the surge - developed while GEN Casey was still command and executed under GEN Petreaus - were better comprehended. Iraqi lack of forthrightness was spotted, exposed, and not tolerated. (Dissembling is recommended by the Koran in order that one might lie to the enemy to fight a winning battle in the future… “taqiya”. Infidels are the enemy.)

It is my opinion that the Army been caught with its britches around its ankles al la the heinous crime of MAJ Hasan. GEN Casey is buying time publicly… while the DoD is formulating a course correction with respect to political correctness.

I have no more problem with Muslims in the military than I do Catholics… or Buddhists.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Off with His Head
Date:	11/11/2009 5:06:57 PM

I am certain you are familiar with the term “inertia.” As set forth by Sir Isaac Newton : “An object at rest will remain at rest unless acted on by an unbalanced force. An object in motion continues in motion with the same speed and in the same direction unless acted upon by an unbalanced force. This law is often called ‘the law of inertia’. The larger the object (more mass), the more difficult it is to stop it, slow it down, change its direction… or get it to move from a standstill.

There is also a term “institutional inertia”. Larger institutions don’t deal with change or challenges as rapidly as small businesses or agencies. The Army, and to a greater extent, the Department of Defense, are beset by horrendous institutional inertia. The problem is further compounded by the binds and policies promulgated by the Executive and Legislative branches.

GEN Casey can neither stop nor turn the avalanche brought about by MAJ Hasen’s criminal actions. He should not be charged with remedying inane political correctness and blind homage to diversity. He SHOULD be charged with correcting whatever security lapses exist(ed) that allowed MAJ Hasen’s career to proceed to the point where he could “martyr” himself.

However, no matter how desperate and inconceivable is his humiliating situation, he IS in command… and it happened on his watch.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I agree he should go
Date:	11/11/2009 5:17:55 PM

There's a lot to respond to in your post but I think the firing of Casey, which will never happen with our current CIC, would send the message that in fact the military cares more about the safety of their personnel than in diversity or political correctness. Then maybe the next time a person exhibits the same behaviors as Hassan the command will have the courage to respond rather than cowering in fear over how it will impact their career.

No one is talking about ending "diversity" in the military but frankly going out of our way to recruit Muslims or whatever desired class should not be a goal. The military should not be a test tube for promoting whatever the latest cause is and should be a place where we have the best and brightest candidates and stop worrying about whether we have enough of one religion or another.

And stop with the Tim McVeigh nonsense! He wasn't a Christian terrorist and that is just the kind of inane crap you will hear on PMSNBC. Tim McVeigh in letters written from prison claimed to be agnostic. He may have been raised in a Christian household but nothing he did had anything to do with his faith and everything to do with his anti-government stance. This moral equivalency between Muslims and Christians on the issue of terrorist acts is the most intellectually dense, stupid and indefensible position usually relegated to the loony left. You should know better.

On the issue of prosecuting someone for something they say it is done all the time. I suggest you make threats against the President of the U.S. and you will find out exactly what the government can do to you because of what you say. Should they have arrested this guy and thrown him in prison for what he said? No. Should they have given him a general discharge and put him on the FBI watch list? I think the answer to that in hindsight is patently obvious to anyone except the loony left. In foresight, he should have at least been discharged from the military. No if's, and's or but's. It is really that simple.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Whoa!!!
Date:	11/11/2009 6:31:02 PM

BU, TD takes years. TD takes months or less - and you don't seem to have a problem with Obama, Reid, and Pelosi's cram it down our throats TD approach.

Hope you can get still gas for that Navigator after your chosen one has his way......your cushy retirement may go south on you if he has his way.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/11/2009 8:10:34 PM

for the repeated personal attacks? I really don't see how my car or my retirement has anything to do with what's being discussed. I'm really sorry it seems to bother you so much.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I agree he should go
Date:	11/11/2009 8:20:00 PM

You and I are in violent agreement that something drastic should have been done about the Major. I have no problem with your recommendation that he should have been given a general discharge and put on a watch list.

I wasn't necessarily meaning to imply that Timothy McVeigh did what he did because of his Christian beliefs, but because of his anti-government actions. He apparently served honorably in the military, but went on to kill innocent civilians because he didn't agree with the government. So that's where I see the parallel with the Ft. Hood incident.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	P.S.
Date:	11/11/2009 8:22:07 PM

I have no knowledge that we are "purposefully" recruiting Muslims any more than any other group -- unless in their capacity as "Arabic speakers", but I'm not sure one equals the other.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Never Misspeak
Date:	11/11/2009 8:27:13 PM

I wasn't aware dissembling was discussed in the Koran. I know that it is a Middle Eastern cultural trait that keeps one from being put on the spot. I know it is a source of frustration for our Military - as a rule, Americans are much more direct and to the point. We don't back away from putting people on the spot.

Name:	alahusker -	Reply
Subject:	General Casey
Date:	11/11/2009 8:31:17 PM

was relieved as a senior commander in Iraq? Against the troop surge in 2007?? Is now the US Army Chief of Staff, and reluctant to call a slaughter of Army Troops radical muslim, terrorism?? What am I missing, maybe he should be CJCS or SECDEF.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	General Casey
Date:	11/11/2009 8:59:28 PM

was relieved as a senior commander in Iraq?

NO! he was not relieved for cause. Quite the contrary, he was a good commander,
an excellent negotiator, and an instrument for execution of the Amman Agreement
which forced the Iraqis to make progress towards self governance, sovereignty,
and self defense. I would gladly serve under him again.

Against the troop surge in 2007?

No! The planning for the surge was initiated under GEN Casey and executed under
GEN Petraeus. You can’t play good-cop-bad-cop with only one actor.

Is now the US Army Chief of Staff, and reluctant to call a slaughter of Army Troops radical muslim(sic), terrorism??

So, how would you have him word it? Are all Muslims in the
military BAD? No, my experience says not. Will you force
his hand? Should he press draconian change on our military?
Have you heard of the law of unintended consequences?

What am I missing; maybe he should be CJCS or SECDEF.

"...Breathe in, breathe out, move on..." (Jimmy Buffet…
am I allowed to quote Jimmy Buffet?)

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/12/2009 1:04:58 AM

Wouldn't have mentioned it...or even known about it except for your huby bragging about it in another post....and you have repeatedly mentioned your "comfortable" retirement situation as you tell us we should be willing to give more of what WE have to those less fortunate. You don't appear to feel your personal largess is threatened by what the Messiah and his dynamic duo are doing to the rest of us and especially our offspring and their offspring. Its just that it gives the appearance of a bit of hypocrisy.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/12/2009 1:05:13 AM

Wouldn't have mentioned it...or even known about it except for your hubby bragging about it in another post....and you have repeatedly mentioned your "comfortable" retirement situation as you tell us we should be willing to give more of what WE have to those less fortunate. You don't appear to feel your personal largess is threatened by what the Messiah and his dynamic duo are doing to the rest of us and especially our offspring and their offspring. Its just that it gives the appearance of a bit of hypocrisy.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	??
Date:	11/12/2009 1:07:32 AM

Only hit the Enter key once...maybe its the the Italian internet...

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/12/2009 2:32:14 AM

Since you have seen fit to say I was bragging (the hubby), then lets go back to the thread that fed the ammo for your personal attack.

1st - The thread in question had absolutely nothing to do with this thread where you accuse me of bragging.

2nd - Here is the exact commwents in the other thread made my Cat Boat: "we heard a slight whimper coming from a 2010 Tahoe. As we looked inside, we saw Hound, caressing, yet clawing the leather seating surfaces inside. As we peered into the Tahoe, noticing the ignition switch in the on position we realized Hound had activated the heated seat option, and she was obviously in a compromised state of mind."

3rd - My (Feb's) response to Cat Boat: "Hound's 2010 Lincoln Navigator has all those options and more. In fact, she has every option available for her vehicle."

I would say you have certainly learned a few less than admirable traits by following the politicians so closely. You have specific learned how to take things out of context and twist them to your benefit. My response back to Cat Boat was not intended as bragging but simply to inform him Hounds had all he was offering in this type of new car already.

Prior to this new vehicle (the Lincoln), Hound has been driving Hondas for 25 years. This included a total of three vehicles - a 1985 Honda Prelude, a 1992 Honda Prelude and a 2001 Honda Accord.

So, it is not the lavish lifestyle you seem to want to imply. Even if it were, what would be wrong with it. We have worked hard for it, and we have not taking a dime from another soul to pay for it. The car was fully paid for prior to departing the dealership. Our other car is 12 years old and is a Ford.

Now you also seem to want to discuss her hard earned retirement plan and the little jabs about her retirement as it may go away. I know you realise there is a better chance for your military retirement to vaporise first. Since in Federal Civil Service, Employees in the Civil Service Retirement System pay 9% of their pay into their retirement system, and it is a stand along program not linked into any other budget programs. The active duty military certainly earned their retirement through trial and tribulation. As you know, I have been there. But we did not pay directly a part of our pay into our retirement. In fact when I converted my militarty time over so it would count toward my Civil Service Retirement, I had to pay back to the Governmet from 7 to 9% of everything I earned while in the military to include interest from the time it was earned.

I try to stay out of a vast majority of all these political debates a select group of you choose to pat each on the back about, but I do not like it when you choose to slander me by your post in this area.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	P.S.
Date:	11/12/2009 9:30:29 AM

I gotcha and misunderstood the implication of the parallels between Hasan and McVeigh. I never got the sense McVeigh was anti-military but was more anti-government which are different animals. Just like a lot of the left are anti-military but very much pro-government. The venerable Bob Scheiffer took this tact in an interview with Lyndsey Graham, who sadly agreed with him proving once again that both of these guys are suffering from dementia or some other problem that attacks their mental faculties.

As for the Muslim recruitment issue, there is indeed a push to recruit Muslims and not just because they speak Arabic. Farsi, etc. I have heard comments from a number of military recruiters on radio and tv since the recent attack about the focus. The Army does have a program called 09 Lima to recruit Muslims for their language and cultural backgound.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	The Muslim Soldier
Date:	11/12/2009 10:22:20 AM

Recruiting of Muslims is fine. However, it is tougher for them with respect to their religion and culture. Remember, they must swear allegiance “to uphold and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic.”

Our Constitution is based on Judeo Christian values (in all probability, organized by Masonic philosophy). These values are not easily reconciled with Sharia Law.

The Muslim soldier must resolve the conflicting goals and definitions of “jihad.” He must associate with “infidels” while maintaining his family’s honor.

And… this is a big AND… he must be prepared to give his life, in defense of our Judeo Christian Constitution, while engaged in killing other Muslims whose (co-opted) tenants initiated the conflict in the first place.

The Geneva Convention precludes the Muslim soldier from treating his enemies as directed… implied… (who knows) by the Koran. Unlike our society, It is blasphemous to interpret the Koran to infidels. You can be on the receiving end of a fatwa for that (Salmon Rushdie comes to mind).

The eminent scholar, Dr Bernard Lewis, argues that the Middle East is currently backward and its decline was a largely self-inflicted condition resulting from both culture and religion. (What Went Wrong?: The Clash Between Islam and Modernity in the Middle East (2002))

The Muslim soldier is a free citizen of the “land of plenty”, trapped in an unclear and contentious religion and culture… and ordered to combat jihad. How difficult it must be.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Interesting
Date:	11/12/2009 3:35:20 PM

I had no idea we were doing that. On one level it makes sense I guess, but on another level, it seems like it could create a lot of problems too. Sometime one has to wonder if anyone actually sits down and really thinks this stuff through.
Knowing how staff work works, a proposal can start out good, and be reduced to it's least common denominator through the staffing process well before it ever gets to a decision maker.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Agreed but
Date:	11/12/2009 3:39:07 PM

it is an all volunteer force. No one forces them into that position.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/13/2009 2:17:53 AM

I apologize for claiming you were bragging. I mis-remembered the string of posts.

As to the civilian vs military discussion, I do have some things I would like to offer, but can't at the moment because we must leave the hotel and go to the ship (it is 8:15 AM here) to see if we can locate and dispatch some extremely troubling gremlins from the network.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/13/2009 5:18:27 PM

True, military don't have to pay into a retirement system, but do you understand the true cost of moving every 2, 3, or 4 years? Short of a BRAC, do civilians have to move nearly as often? Have you ever been forced, as a family of four, to live in a 560 square foot house?

I have said time and time again that there are truly professional civil servants that perform magnificently - but there are also dolts who feed on the largess of the government and epitomize the old adage (from a civilian instructor in my basic comm officer's course in 1968) of the Civil Service Rocket: You can't fire it because it won't work.

Strides have been made in the method compensation is awarded to civil servants that at least help to make government civilians work harder, but the rules for expulsion are so complex that most supervisors just put up with substandard performance. And, by the way, I kind of know because I have significant personal experience with the civilian workforce with my Navy customer because it is 99% civilian.

And I have also said on many occasions that I have no reason to doubt that Hound - or Feb, are among the dolts of which I speak. I believe each to have been dedicated to their jobs and to doing the best they can. On the other hand I sense a bit of a "chip on the shoulder" attitude from Hound regarding civil servants and their contributions. She has nothing to fear from me - I know the importance of both the civilian and uniformed side to the defense of our country. Just get tired some times of the continuing defensive attitude.

As an aside - but maybe germane - we just today lost a valued employee in Charleston. He retired from the Air Force and he and his wife wanted to make a go of it in Charleston, although their families were in the Greenville SC area. He stuck it out with us for 18 months, but he and Momma finally decided that, in spite of his good job with us, they wanted to go back to their roots. While it hurt us tremendously as a company, I and my Montgomery colleague (also a 22 year AF veteran), rather than showing sour grapes, actually gave him an award upon his departure. Bottom line is that he and his wife gave 23 years of their life going where the AF told them....and now it is their turn to live where they want.

So, to end the rambling I will simply say that while active duty members may not contribute in dollars to their retiremet, they earn every penny of it in a lot more ways that dollars can ever express.

And don't EVEN get me started on the implied promise of lifetime health care for the military.....

Nasreddin Hodja

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	So much more to say!
Date:	11/13/2009 6:18:18 PM

Here! Here! (Dove se?)

Name:	Feb -	Reply
Subject:	Any Particular Reason
Date:	11/14/2009 12:10:40 AM

Yes, I mentioned our men and women of the military earned their retirement through their service to this Country and through the trials and tribulations they paid and are currently paying.

I know the relocation moves you mentioned as I had 8 in my short ten years of active duty service. The moving inconvenience for me did not even compare to the trial and tibulation of loosing two of my men In Nam as a platoon leader. This will pray on my mind until my death.

Their were also great rewards: My Number one reward was experiencing the camaraderie of the men I served with in Viet Nam ( http://www.538thlc.com/ ). My second greatest reward was the opportunity to command the first and oldest Engineer Company in U.S. Army, A Company, Ist Enginner Battailin, 1st Infantry Division.

Quick Links
Lake Martin News
Lake Martin Photos
Lake Martin Videos