Forum Thread

Lake Martin Topics

(Lake Martin Specific)

111,143 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 7:30:23 PM

Off-Topic

Lakes Online Forum

83,605 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 9:33:24 PM

Boat Maintenance

Lakes Online Forum

5,193 messages

Updated 4/3/2024 3:47:36 AM

Lake Martin Fishing

(Lake Martin Specific)

4,169 messages

Updated 4/16/2024 3:16:57 AM

Jokes

Lakes Online Forum

4,169 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 11:05:05 PM

Sports

Lakes Online Forum

4,260 messages

Updated 3/24/2024 9:24:45 AM

Grilling & Recipes

Lakes Online Forum

2,976 messages

Updated 3/20/2024 11:53:43 PM

Lake Martin SCUBA

(Lake Martin Specific)

169 messages

Updated 5/31/2023 1:39:35 PM

Tallapoosa River Topics

Lakes Online Forum

98 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM

Forum Usage Rules

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Our Friends in Islam
Date:	1/3/2010 7:43:58 AM

The assassination attempt on the cartoonist in Denmark is just the beginning of terror campaigns to intimidate anyone who dares to insult Islam. Had this person not had a "panic" room to escape to with his granddaughter, both would have been slaughtered by the ax welding Islamic terrorist.

This person was praised as follows: At a news conference in the Somali capital of Mogadishu, al-Shabaab spokesman Sheikh Ali Mohamud Rage said, "We are very happy with the Somali national who attacked the house of the Danish cartoonist who previously insulted our prophet Mohammed. This is an honor for the Somali people. We are telling that we are glad that anyone who insults Islam should be attacked wherever they are."

If this country does not get its head out of the sand and start doing those things that are necessary to protect our citizens, we will be reading daily about American citizens murdered by these terrorist. As said before, not all Muslims are terrorist, but the majority of terrorist are Muslims. We need to demand from our congressional Representatives that nothing is off the table when personal and national security is threatened.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Our Friends in Islam
Date:	1/3/2010 9:13:15 AM

What is it you think needs to be done?

Would you gather all Muslims in this country and encamp them as we did with the Japanese during WWII? Would you expel all Muslims? Not allow anyone that is a Muslim to enter our country? Go the route of Hitler and make them wear an armband? Would you gather them and execute them?

I'm just curious how we would go about this.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Some ideas
Date:	1/3/2010 9:35:25 AM

I have some suggestions. Let me know what you think.

1. We should profile in airport security screening. Yes, it will inconvenience law abiding Muslims and young middle eastern men but presumably they would be happy not to allow a terrorist through.

2. We need to stop issuing visa's to young Muslim men from Yemen, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, etc. without an extensive on the ground background check. Yes, this will put visa issuance to a screeching halt for quite a while until we have the assets to conduct the checks. By far the biggest impact will be on educational visa's but maybe this will increase competition for domestic students and reduce costs.

3. I would immediately order an investigation of the content of teaching at Mosques and Madrassa's in the U.S. and deport any Imam preaching violence and hatred toward the west.

4. I would finish the fence along the southern border to stem the potential flow of terrorists from Mexico. I would also use the military to guard our borders. I would enhance border crossing security from Canada and profile for additional screening.

5. I would remove all barriers to domestic oil exploration (excluding reasonable environmental protection measures) so we can reduce our dependence on foreign oil and would selectively eliminate purchases from middle eastern countries hostile to the U.S. Even though they will sell their oil elsewhere at least we won't be directly funding our enemy.

6. I would do anything to promote the renewal of industrial production in this country so we can reduce the flow of dollars to China. Included in this would be reduction of regulatory and financial burdens placed on US industry that make us less competitive. While this may seem a bit off target I believe China funds quite a bit of anti-American activity across the world. Let's see if they can do it without our dollars.

Name:	Psycho -	Reply
Subject:	Some ideas
Date:	1/3/2010 2:10:25 PM

Sounds good to me. Wish you were our president right now.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Two Points
Date:	1/3/2010 2:43:11 PM

One, it is illegal to use our military to guard the border. That is considered to be a "police action" and you cannot currently use the military for police. This was explored when we were trying to cut off the flow of drugs from the south.

Two, the educational visa thing gets tricky. This was explored as a way to keep Chinese students out of our universities to stem the flow of advanced technology (esp. military technology) from leaving our country. The majority of Universities will tell you that if we cut off foreign students, there won't be anyone to do the advanced research and grants work that foreign grad students do.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Your first point is not valid.
Date:	1/3/2010 3:29:06 PM

The 'idea' may have been 'explored' but ONLY political correctness stops the use of the millitary to guard our borders. That is precisely why we have a millitary, TO PROTECT OURSELVES. The 'posse comatatus' (sp) does NOT apply to the national sercurity of our borders.

But I hope that you feel the same way when this administration declares marshall law for some tumpted up 'crisis'.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Two Points
Date:	1/3/2010 4:19:32 PM

I guess I was imprecise in my wording. I would use National Guard units which I lump in with the military. I do think that posse comitatus probably doesn't apply to guarding our border from non-citizens but if we have the Guard we can probably do without. But if not, I would press the issue.

As for your second point, I am hard pressed to believe that we can't do research without Muslim students from hostile countries that promote violence against the west. I wasn't talking about all student visa's, just those from hostile countries.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You are Wrong
Date:	1/3/2010 7:05:33 PM

A legal determination was made that in fact, guarding our borders is in fact a "police action" and posse comatatus does in fact, apply. This has been upheld for illegal immigration and was upheld for drug interdiction.

Sorry to disappoint you.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Two Points
Date:	1/3/2010 7:11:42 PM

I found it hard to believe also, but having heard a number of Universities respond in the same way, I guess I would have to believe it. Of course, for the most part, they are not coming from the "terrorist centers" --- but many of them are educated in the UK and other European countries, but hold Middle Eastern passports.
I find it a shame that so few US students go into pure science majors.

I doubt you could find enough Guard forces to do home protection when we have enlisted most of them to fight overseas. Our actual standing Army would be woefully inadequate in numbers to fight if they were not agumented by the National Guard and Reserves.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/3/2010 7:23:00 PM

Well you asked what might be done and those were my ideas. None could happen overnight but worthy in my view to help stem the tide. I too am worried about the lack of science and engineering students that we produce in the U.S. although I have no problem finding more than enough for my company. I would say that it is important to recognize that we get may of the most talented math, science and engineering students from around the world to come to our universities because they are the best in the world. I still think it is not worth the risk having potentially radicalized Muslims come to the US to study and do research unless very thoroughly vetted.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/3/2010 9:19:01 PM

I agree. It was deeply disturbing to know our universities were being targeted by the Chinese, who were sending students here specifically to absorb technology that they could then go home and apply to Chinese industry.

I remember when I worked with young engineers (out of school for a couple of years) that none of them wanted to get advanced degrees in engineering, but rather in business. They perceived that they could make more money in business with a technical background than they would working purely as an engineer.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/3/2010 9:42:40 PM

-I don't know about universities but I "did" know about US military border operations.
-The US military has been "Supporting" border operations for at least two decades that I personally know about (you history buffs out there could probably find incidents back to "Posse" writing in teh 19th century). Initially, the support in the 1990s was for anti-drug operations. Yes it ran into "Posse" opposition but as far as I know was never ruled on. JTF-6 (Joint Task Force 6) was set up outside of Fort Bliss in the 1990's and provided recon to detect, track, and stop drug operations. These intl ops (which included boots on patrol) were done in "coordination and support" of civilian organizations. In the past decade these ops have also been used to support illegal immigration interdiction operations,
-Back in the spring of 2009, you'll probably remember that mexicans were even coming across the border on raids into the US. Obama was pushed on what would be his response. He said if necessary he would "call up" National Guard troops and "deploy' US military forces if necessary to "forcibly" stop cross-border operations by any Mexicans. He apparantly was not concerned about the "posse" crowd. The problem has temporarily been quieted thru diplomatic ops with Mexico, ..which of course get their power by the "threat" of using US military power.
-US military forces have been, are now, and will be used in the future if necessary to secure our borders, ---period!!!!!

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/4/2010 8:19:22 AM

I'm not sure where you got your information, but I do know that it was legally ruled on in the 1990's. The JTF may have been providing intelligence and support to civilian agencies but they were not boots on the ground for drug interdiction. At least not 1990-1992 when I worked counter-drug programs in the Pentagon. Maybe it changed after I moved on to work the Middle East.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/4/2010 9:02:01 AM

Look up Joint Interagency Task Force - South on the web. They are located at Key West.

JIATF-S has reps from DoD and the three-letters, as well as reps from our allies in the Central and South American regions. Key element of their mission: drug interdiction. Visited there on business in 2008. Sitting outside their office building was a drug-runner's submarine....

I do remember, though, that our DoD folks at JIATF-S were still sensitive to the military/law enforcement rules. As time goes on and the world situation changes, I suspect that the traditional interpretations of what is national defense and what is law enforcement may morph and become intertwined...after all, if drug money is being used to fund rebels trying to overthrow our military allies, it would seem that cutting off that supply of money would be protecting our national security.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Then how do you explain..
Date:	1/4/2010 10:40:41 AM

.. the Coast Guard, the fifth branch of our millitary who spend a good portion of their time in law enforcmement capacity, patrolling our borders.

Furthermore, 'legal determinations' have grown to mean little in this day and time. In some cases they are 'politcal determinations' disguised as legal ones. I would have never thought that the legal system here would rule like they did on Kelo, but they did, all the way to the Supremes. We still have the best there is, but Kelo and OJ soured me on lady justice.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Then how do you explain..
Date:	1/4/2010 10:50:52 AM

The Coast Guard does not belong to the Department of Defense, but is is a part of the Department of Homeland Security. Here is a quote from their web site:

"The United States Coast Guard is a military, multimission, maritime service within the Department of Homeland Security and one of the nation's five armed services. Its core roles are to protect the public, the environment, and U.S. economic and security interests in any maritime region in which those interests may be at risk, including international waters and America's coasts, ports, and inland waterways.

The Coast Guard provides unique benefits to the nation because of its distinctive blend of military, humanitarian, and civilian law-enforcement capabilities. To serve the public, the Coast Guard has five fundamental roles:

Maritime Safety: Eliminate deaths, injuries, and property damage associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating. The Coast Guard's motto is Semper Paratus—(Always Ready), and the service is always ready to respond to calls for help at sea.

Maritime Security: Protect America's maritime borders from all intrusions by: (a) halting the flow of illegal drugs, aliens, and contraband into the United States through maritime routes; (b) preventing illegal fishing; and (c) suppressing violations of federal law in the maritime arena.
Drug Seizure Photo

Maritime Mobility: Facilitate maritime commerce and eliminate interruptions and impediments to the efficient and economical movement of goods and people, while maximizing recreational access to and enjoyment of the water.

National Defense: Defend the nation as one of the five U.S. armed services. Enhance regional stability in support of the National Security Strategy, utilizing the Coast Guard’s unique and relevant maritime capabilities.

Protection of Natural Resources: Eliminate environmental damage and the degradation of natural resources associated with maritime transportation, fishing, and recreational boating."

Name:	CAT BOAT -	Reply
Subject:	Some ideas
Date:	1/4/2010 11:46:49 AM

Maybe he will be a "write in". I'm there.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Hodja
Date:	1/4/2010 3:13:46 PM

I didn't realize it had been moved to DHS, but DHS has only existed since 2002. The Coast Guard has been around a bit longer and was under DoD for decades I believe. Regardless what department they fall under, they are United States Millitary and do perform 'police functions'.

I hold with the statement that the only only thing standing in the way of troops on the border is political correctness.

And BTW, eric holder came in 7th I think on this years list of most corrupt policians. Just who you want heading up Justice Department.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	More problems to fix
Date:	1/4/2010 6:40:05 PM

Hound,
-I'm not sure what ruling you're thinking about. I just completed a google search for it, ((---again, you have me acting as your research assistant :) ---)) but was unable to find such a ruling. However, there are planty of articles about the debate occuring in the 90's and a lot of articles describing the weakening of Posse C over operations against druggies in the 90s and terrorists since 9/11.
-I personally played in that came in the 90's, and I know that the military in alot of cases didn't want to get involved in the anti-drug game but was drawn in to it by civilian agencies that needed military equipment, techniques, expertise, and manpower.
-Historically speaking, Posse C was instituted after the Civil War to get the military out of law inforcement and BACK INTO BORDER DEFENSE.--ironic, huh?
-Bottom line: reference above suggestion to use the military to secure our border? ---they're already doing it. The military does it in support of the civilian agencies under Homeland Defense Dept, --but the military is doing it's part. What the military can't do is arrest people.
-An additional point worth noting, In the past decade the Pentagon created a new major Command Regional Command, The NORTHERN Command and allocated combat forces to it. Where are these military forces to be used?--the answer is, in North America! Posse C has a role in securing our civilian government, --but Posse C was NOT instituted or designed to help that government commit suicide. Any reasonable person understands the main mission of the military is to defend the country and the constitution from enemies both foreign and domestic, --and the foreign mission begins at the borders.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Thanks Hodja
Date:	1/4/2010 6:44:04 PM

Actually I believe USCG was previously under Department of Commerce. I know it wasn't DoD

Machts nichts, I have a very dear friend who was a Coastie and he firmly believes he was as much a part of the defense of this nation as any one of the four uniformed services in the DoD.

Name:	MrHodja -	Reply
Subject:	Oops
Date:	1/4/2010 9:51:08 PM

I was wrong about Commerce - it was Treasury, then Transportation before DHS.

Not being able to find the right answer on the USCG site I went to the ultimate source -- wikipedia..:>)

Here is a brief modern history:

The modern Coast Guard can be said to date to 1915, when the Revenue Cutter Service merged with the United States Life-Saving Service and Congress formalized the existence of the new organization. In 1939, the U.S. Lighthouse Service was brought under its purview. In 1942, the Bureau of Marine Inspection and Navigation was transferred to the Coast Guard. In 1967, the Coast Guard moved from the Department of the Treasury to the newly formed Department of Transportation, an arrangement that lasted until it was placed under the Department of Homeland Security in 2002 as part of legislation designed to more efficiently protect American interests following the 11 September 2001 terrorist attacks.

Quick Links
Lake Martin News
Lake Martin Photos
Lake Martin Videos