| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/1/2010 9:01:39 PM
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How did he know .... read on!!!
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson
It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world. Thomas Jefferson
I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them. Thomas Jefferson
My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government. Thomas Jefferson
No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. Thomas Jefferson
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government. Thomas Jefferson
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/1/2010 11:07:31 PM
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This one makes you come across as the true fanatical and radical WING NUT that
has to make any REAL American begin to wonder what makes you tick.
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
This has been tried by some far out radical groups with dire results. I sure hope you have taught your son that we can fight tyranny at the ballot box. We are America!!!!!!!
The other statements can be discussed intelligently and represent a valid viewpoint for many.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/2/2010 6:00:00 AM
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Thanks for demonstrating you are the only one that is a true fanatical and radical with your "labeling". Why is it that a liberal can not disagree with something without name calling and labeling. It really shows the level of your intelligence.
I will accept any name you want to call me since those are not my quotes but those of one of our nations founding fathers. The principles still hold true today and are the basis of our constitution ... which I understand that liberals and socialist such as yourself do not agree with.
Now Barney, get your flashlight and go to your Wall Mart security job and talk with your buds.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
and BTW ....
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Date:
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2/2/2010 6:05:46 AM
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I do agree with that statement .... it is not radical at all ... it says "at last resort". And if some crazed liberal socialist was trying to change our constitution and americans freedoms that would not allow the people to rule through their vote, that they would stand up to protect that freedom and america.
Our forefathers shed much blood to provide us that freedom and right, many have died in wars protecting it and securing for others ...
the question really is why you would disagree with that statement.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/2/2010 7:46:45 AM
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Interesting quotes, but the thing with quotes is that they are usually meaningless without the context in which they were made. One can take a lot of quotes and been them to a purpose.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Really?
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Date:
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2/2/2010 8:29:40 AM
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What far out radical groups have tried to take over the government with arms? Funny, I don't recall any military march on Washington since the Civil War. Maybe you are talking about the David Koresh in Waco? Oh, I forgot, they were just holed up in their compound in Waco until the Federal government attacked them with arms and killed women and children. Maybe you were talking about Ruby Ridge when an FBI sniper killed a woman holding a baby while trying to arrest her husband. I could go on but it seems to me the number of cases of the Federal government killing Americans far outweigh the number of radical groups trying to take over the government by force.
But I guess if you include having a lot of weapons and trying to get away from the government a conspiratorial plot to take over the world you could have gotten a job in Reno Justice department......they are always looking for paranoid leftists that see anarchy in every legal gun owner.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Fear of Guns
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Date:
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2/2/2010 9:56:39 AM
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It is amazing, that folks with an understanding of history, have no fear of law-abiding citizens owning guns. It is interesting that those individuals who understand and revere the Constitution also have no problem with law-abiding citizens owning guns. The Bill-of-Rights (first ten amendments) respects freedom and empowers citizens to defend it.
Those with no sense of history fear guns in the hands of citizen patriots. It is because, in the final instant, freedom is confiscated at the point of a gun… and usually by a tyrannical government. A tyrannical government does NOT recognize the inalienable rights of citizens. Come on… you know what those rights are! All three of them are being threatened by “leaders” of our current government.
If there were no government BOASTING and THREATENING to dissolve Constitutional freedoms, there would be no talk of guns… except those in the hands of criminals.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/2/2010 11:39:26 AM
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Hound, I tend to agree that you often need the context to fully understand the author's intent. Having said that, there are quite a few of those quotes that I am hard pressed to think the context would alter them in any substantive way. Unless of course the context is, "I believe the exact opposite of the next sentence". Highly doubtful....
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
Jefferson Quotes
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Date:
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2/2/2010 12:04:34 PM
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With all due respect WW,MM,Maj et al........you may be trying to put lip stick on a pig here in this attempt to get GF to move to a reasonable position on anything. Let's not forget that in the young stages of the American Revolution that not all...not many...colonists were up front and ardent supporters of the break from old King George. Remember that Washington only had about (if I remember correctly) less than 2000 patriots to cross the Deleware on that frozem Dec morning to do battle. And, we probably will agree that human nature has not changed that much since the recording of history, much less since the 1700's.....so to put into perspective GFs position.....just think of him in terms of one who would be a rationalizer in what ever century and who would be "calm" in his support of the order of the day. How else can you explain his not being critical of the potential erosion of hard won individual freedoms, or the ever growing concentration of power in the federal gov't ? Is he only critical when a Republican is a target? Can he be critical of any politician who wants to weaken our constitutionally guaranteed freedoms? For a while I thought he was just really good at being a devil's advocate with a knack for stirin the puddin..........but me thinks the mask has slipped......
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Context
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Date:
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2/2/2010 12:22:59 PM
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The context of every one of those Jefferson quotes is sufficiently expressed in the Declaration of Independence and provided for in The Constitution.
It is Liberalism and the convenience of characterizing the Constitution as "dynamic" which allows the context to be lost. If we say often enough that our founding document is “dynamic” then… like promiscuity, marital infidelity, and socialism… we the people will become desensitized to that concept. And, like the people of Iraq… 34 years of living under a vicious dictator… becomes normal. How few of us remember freedom from excessive government intervention.
Jefferson was well versed in history, well traveled, and possessed first hand experience with tyranny. Unless you have had a Jeffersonian experience, you will not fully understand the context.
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I'm not sure that I agree with what you have said. Not having the "Jeffersonian" experience doesn't not necessarily mean that one cannot understand the quote in the context of the full passage.
I don't take anything away from Jefferson, as it is well documented that for his time, he was an amazing and thoughtful man (although not too good with his finances). My caution refers to taking a quote from Jefferson and bending it to some modern day context because a given "sentence" seems to fit the purposes of the "quoter". Several years ago, I was fortunate enough to attend a seminar given by Jefferson scholar and also one by a Constitution scholar. Facinating stuff. I learned a lot.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Come On GF
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Date:
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2/2/2010 4:44:00 PM
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If you truly believe that, then you must be sheltered or delusional. We can vote at the ballot box as long as our Government gives us the freedom to do so. If you believe that the liberals who think that the Government is more capable of making decisions than the people are, is satisfied with listening to us, you ARE mistaken. For examples just look at Pelosi and Reid. These people will not let petty documents such as the Constitution stand in the way of “progress”, but would have no choice except to listen to an ARMED populace. There is no reason that a Government “of, by and for the people” would have any need to fear an armed populace.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I wasn't clear
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Date:
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2/2/2010 5:00:32 PM
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I wasnt clear
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Date:
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2/2/2010 5:03:46 PM
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I mostly agreed with you that having the context is usually important. My only point was that given the clarity of these statements it was hard for me to imagine a context that would change their meaning so much that they wouldn't be appropriate for how they were used. It wasn't so much a matter of being an expert in Jefferson because I think you would not need to be to get the general drift of what he was saying.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I wasnt clear
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Date:
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2/2/2010 8:10:52 PM
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My commment wasn't meant to be in response to you. I understood what you meant.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
oops....oh well
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Date:
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2/2/2010 9:19:32 PM
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