Forum Thread

Lake Martin Topics

(Lake Martin Specific)

111,143 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 7:30:23 PM

Off-Topic

Lakes Online Forum

83,605 messages

Updated 4/25/2024 9:33:24 PM

Boat Maintenance

Lakes Online Forum

5,193 messages

Updated 4/3/2024 3:47:36 AM

Lake Martin Fishing

(Lake Martin Specific)

4,169 messages

Updated 4/16/2024 3:16:57 AM

Jokes

Lakes Online Forum

4,169 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 11:05:05 PM

Sports

Lakes Online Forum

4,260 messages

Updated 3/24/2024 9:24:45 AM

Grilling & Recipes

Lakes Online Forum

2,976 messages

Updated 3/20/2024 11:53:43 PM

Lake Martin SCUBA

(Lake Martin Specific)

169 messages

Updated 5/31/2023 1:39:35 PM

Tallapoosa River Topics

Lakes Online Forum

98 messages

Updated 4/15/2024 1:00:58 AM

Forum Usage Rules

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Social Security Fiasco
Date:	3/14/2010 8:20:15 PM

Just read an AP article summarizing the status of the Social Security Balance Sheet, and I am royally P%$&^d!!

Per the article, the SSA collected more than they paid out as benefits. Congress elected to "Borrow" the excess to fund programs XYZ, backed by IOU's in the form of nonnegotiable Treasury Bonds. I suspect Mr. LBJ started that trend, and it has continued until now, WITHOUT REGARD TO POLITICAL PARTY CONTROL.

Now, funds going out are more than funds coming in to SSA. The excess funds have already been spent. Those IOU's need to be cashed into an economy that is already choking on debt.

The obvious choices are to either cut benefits and/or raise SS taxes, plus borrow more funds for the shortfall. Political suicide.

The total funds "borrowed" from the SSA account is $2.5 Trillion, according to the AP article, fully one fifth of the total National Debt this year.

Most of us are rational people, employing a "pay as You Go' discipline for the checkbook. Obviously, our representatives cannot control themselves likewise.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Social Security Fiasco
Date:	3/14/2010 9:23:30 PM

This isn't a recent problem. It's the reason that people have been talking about the SS crisis for a number of years now. There was no law in place that prevented the government from utilizing the funds, and logging an IOU to the fund.
That's the reason that they keep talking about reducing benefits, even though it would be political suicide to do so.

For years now, our country (and many of it's citizens) have been living beyond it's means -- now the bills are coming due and the party is definitely over. Hard choices ahead.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Social Security Fiasco
Date:	3/15/2010 7:18:17 AM

That is not true Hound .... that was changed by the democrats to used those funds and replace with IOU's. The original SS law when enacted mandated the funds be kept separate. If they had been and was managed and invested we would not have the problem we have now. Instead, our government borrows the funds, replaces with IOU's, pays no interest and then "repays" as payments need to be made with cheaper inflation adjusted dollars.

Now think if all the money you put in to your retirement fund 401K or IRA was invested with zero return, to be spent 30 years later considering inflation all thise years ... do you think it would not be in balance.

I think so ... hence our problem.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Social Security Fiasco
Date:	3/15/2010 7:58:05 AM

Which Democrats would that be WW? I distinctly remember GWB saying that it wasn't as though there was a filing cabinet somewhere with all the IOUs in it.

Somedays, WW, your political bias blinds you.

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Social Security Fiasco
Date:	3/15/2010 9:17:34 AM

If you look at this bunch in charge today, spending beyond your means is the norm. We are on a steep curve going into bankruptcy. Things must change.

Pelosi, Reed, and Obama are not agents for change that will be best for this country. I do not care which party is in charge if the change is bad for this country.

Give me a Democratic Party with Sparkman from Alabama; Russell from Ms.; and Estes K. from Tn. and I will support them. I want people in charge who will listen and put the interest of this country first.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, you are wrong on this one
Date:	3/15/2010 10:09:32 AM

Hound, actually the first President to do so was LBJ (note the words "for the first time"). And at the time Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate. So WW may be ideologically blind but he was also historically correct. :-)

LBJ: "This budget, therefore, for the first time accurately covers all Federal expenditures and all Federal receipts, including for the first time in one budget $47 billion from the social security, Medicare, highway, and other trust funds."

Having said that, all President's of either party since then have allowed this to continue because to change it would be indeed a bitter pill to swallow and none have the political courage to do so. Eliminating use of FICA funds would be yet another big spike in the deficit although it more accurately depicts what is really happening.

This is just another reason why the 4th rail is so difficult to fix by either party. When the GOP proposes changes Dems claim they want to starve Grandma and when Dems propose changes the GOP charges they want to starve Grandma. One thing I will say is I am adamantly opposed to a "bipartisan" commission because that is simply an abrogation of the responsibility of elected leaders to do what we send them to Washington to do. They (both parties) want to hide behind some commission so when their constituents complain about higher taxes or reduced benefits or both they can express their sympathy and blame it all on this "bipartisan" commission.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	No Happy Ending
Date:	3/15/2010 10:48:42 AM

This debacle has no happy ending. I know many couples my age, where they have mistakenly perceived social security as some form of retirement. They have neglected to save or invest for their retirement. They have engaged in instant gratification. And, in their middle age, they are deeply in debt. A VERY SIGNIFICANT portion of our baby boomer peers will not be able to handle their debt in retirement. Social Security will not save their house. Though bodies be old and minds be weary, they will not be able to retire. Lo and behold, this culture appears in their children.

Means testing? This insulting euphemism says that those who have worked hard, saved diligently, and planned ahead… notwithstanding their maximum contributions to FICA, will be penalized for their focus and perseverance. Their governmentally incurred devaluation of FICA contributions will be further degraded by “means testing”… i.e. reduced SS payments. The diligent ants are being forced to pay for the fiscal hedonism of the grasshoppers (The current pretender and his liberal enablers in the Legislative Branch don’t seem to know this fable.)

So now it’s unavoidable. History rings true again.

Say! Why don’t we subject health care to the same idiotic policy?

“Show me the money!”

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, you are wrong on this one
Date:	3/15/2010 5:09:45 PM

I don't think I'm wrong, I just said that I don't think this has been limited to democrats.

And I happen to agree with you about commissions. It's a waste of time, because they'll make recommendations and then the politicians will ignore them. Someone's got to man-up (or woman-up) and stop hiding behind commissions and doomsday reports.

Believe me, I'm as fed up as anyone of you with the government right now.

Name:	Old Diver -	Reply
Subject:	No Happy Ending
Date:	3/15/2010 5:16:56 PM

It would be interesting to know if the money "borrowed" from S S is included in the debt. There is no telling what else is hidden from the public by their duplicity.
It is supprising that the American public doesn't surround Washington like the closing scenes of an old Frankenstein movie with torches, ropes,tar and feathers.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	But you are wrong about your reply to WW
Date:	3/15/2010 5:30:02 PM

WW said this:

That is not true Hound .... that was changed by the democrats to used those funds and replace with IOU's. The original SS law when enacted mandated the funds be kept separate. If they had been and was managed and invested we would not have the problem we have now. Instead, our government borrows the funds, replaces with IOU's, pays no interest and then "repays" as payments need to be made with cheaper inflation adjusted dollars.

You said this in response:

Which Democrats would that be WW? I distinctly remember GWB saying that it wasn't as though there was a filing cabinet somewhere with all the IOUs in it.

In fact what he said was correct and your question about which Democrats would that be is answered with LBJ. The fact is before LBJ it was handled differently and that was what WW said. He didn't say anything about what happened or didn't happen after that. He simply stated something that is in fact true and correct and it all started with LBJ and the Dem-controlled House and Senate. Honestly, it is so factually, objectively obvious that you were wrong in implying that he could not tell you why he blamed Dems and that GWB somehow had something to do with this.

As for your disgust with government, you apparently have lots of company. Only 25% of Americans think we are going in the right direction. What is fascinating is that until Scott Brown, Dems had complete control of government and look at the mess we are in. Say what you want about the intelligence of Americans but they instinctively know their lives will be better off with divided government unable to do much.....which means unable to do much damage.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You misunderstood
Date:	3/15/2010 8:01:57 PM

I wasn't sure what Predident it started with -- I just knew it didn't start with this Administration. And I knew it didn't start with GWB -- I just remembered him saying that as a point of reference, but I was pretty sure it preceded his 8 years too. I actually thought it might have started in the Reagan era. But, regardless, it sucks. And I stand on my statement that WW sometimes lets his political bias blind him... if it turns out it's not appropriate to this thread -- well it applies somewhere in this forum.. LOL.

My disgust with the government probably started around the time I moved to DC (88). Once you are inside the beltway, you begin to understand all too well how ridiculous it is (and it doesn't matter who is in the WH). The insanity never stops. If they are not trying to figure out if an igloo will melt in the desert, you'll spend hours justifying why their perception about something is not the way it really is. Frustrating. People get burned out because nothing is ever completed. At least I did.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	What's the Solution??
Date:	3/15/2010 9:19:09 PM

LBJ broke "Faith" with the American people when he, and his Congress, hijacked money from a Federally Established Trust Fund, a non-voluntary Trust Fund, to balance a federal budget. Good PR at the time I'll bet.
Then succeeding Presidents/Congress' continued to lie/cheat and steal from the same "Trust", but they left IOU's.
Neither your local Banker nor your local Booky would have let that debt slide for 40 years. Foreclosure/broken bones would be involved.
The damage to SS is already done.
Is there a solution to our fiscal mentality crash short of revolution??

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	What's the Solution??
Date:	3/15/2010 10:50:40 PM

Watch what happens in Greece. A government writes IOUs that they can't cover. The people can't repay the debt that the nanny government incurred on their behalf.

And so will go Spain, and Italy, and Portugal. So it is with socialism. Eventually you run out of rich people to tax. Then you tax the middle class… then the working class. So it goes until there is no further source of money. Then all of those with hands outstretched find that the entitlements have foundered at the source. They riot to keep the largess flowing.

They riot in vain. The golden goose is dead.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You misunderstood
Date:	3/16/2010 8:28:21 AM

I would never argue with you about WW's political bias, which is exactly the same as mine. And it does infect everything we say and write in here. :-)

As for government, I was always a small government conservative, even as a young man. Where my visceral disgust with government began was in 1998 when I started my own business. I had absolutely no idea how much government can negatively impact a business. I also had no idea how much government punishes entrepreneurs. I also had no concept how much hard earned money I had to spend each year to comply with a myriad of government rules and regulations, many of which are stupid or contradictory. And none of these issues even touch on taxes and the tens of thousands of dollars I spend each year just completing all the state and federal forms, not to mention what I actually pay in taxes.

I have said this often, but there are very few things government does well or efficiently. Because of that very nature, less is more. Not none...but limited. And most government should be at the local level where it is more accountable and elected officials are more likely to experience the results of their decisions.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	But
Date:	3/16/2010 4:18:08 PM

so much of local government is ineffective at best and corrupt at it's worst. So many people in local government have no vision, other than for how they can feather their own nests.
So I don't think the answer more local government is the answer.
One just has to look at the local towns and cities to see what a mess they are.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Not true everywhere
Date:	3/16/2010 4:48:24 PM

but at least they have to actually live in the community where their incompetence screws things up. And if you live in a community that is run by inept or corrupt folks you have the ability to move out to another nearby community that is better run (i.e., why I live in Cobb County versus Fulton or Dekalb). When the Federal gov't screws up there is nowhere to run.

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	So, There is NO Solution??
Date:	3/16/2010 7:50:41 PM

Most responses to my thread are based on either blame or political party.
I contend that it goes beyond blaming a political party or individual. It almost seems to be an attitude in DC as well as local government that empowers our reps to ignore common sense and enact law/policy which makes matters worse.
Putting political bias aside if possible, can anybody imagine any positive steps to take to begin to untangle this mess??

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	So, There is NO Solution??
Date:	3/16/2010 8:38:05 PM

I think that our country needs to put itself n a fiscal diet. For example, the Israelis are saying that because we expressed our views about their opening more settlements on the East Bank, now our relations are at an all-time low -- so maybe we ought to take that 1.2B we give them every year for not fighting with the Egyptians and put it towards our SS number. Seriously, I think the only way out of this and all the messes are to seriously reconsider everything that we are spending money on, both inside and outside the country. Do I think this will happen? NO.

Name:	Summer Lover -	Reply
Subject:	So, There is NO Solution??
Date:	3/17/2010 7:08:10 PM

You are absolutley right about the diet, and also that it will never happen.

Quick Links
Lake Martin News
Lake Martin Photos
Lake Martin Videos