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Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 4:00:46 PM

Combine all individual pensions into a single government controlled fund and then dispense equally among the citizens. In other words, share the wealth. This is one of Obama's advisors.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 4:42:21 PM

Can you site the sourch or post the URL? I am unable to find the article. It sounds like a hairbrained idea to me.

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 4:58:39 PM

URL: http://www.oldhippie.com/forums/political-news-discussions-humor/9621-retirement-usa-initiative.html

Name:	lotowner -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 5:05:38 PM

The Retirement USA Initiative

The SEIU (Andy Stern's unions) is promoting a plan to centralize all retirement plans in the United States. The plan is called "the Retirement USA Initiative" and it would create one government pension plan for all American workers.

Here are some of the basic tenets of this government retirement plan:

* Benefits that move with you, even if you change jobs (or don't have a job because you are a moocher)

* Payouts only at retirement (which will be earlier and earlier because .. hey .. the government will take care of you after that!)

* Shared responsibility among employers, the government and employees (ie. spread the wealth)

* Pooled assets, controlled by professional investment managers (government bureaucrats)

What's not being said here is that this grand retirement plan will eventually result in the confiscation of all privately-held retirement accounts. This means your 401K plans, your IRAs and even your private pension plans. You see, in our grand new egalitarian society you just cannot let some people have more set aside for retirement than others. It just isn't fair. Everyone deserves the same retirement income, right?

Still don't believe this is on the way? Fine. Then you can sit here suffering the consequences while people who actually made their escape plans look sadly at you and what was once their country from under a palm three somewhere.
__________________

URL: http://www.oldhippie.com/forums/political-news-discussions-humor/9621-retirement-usa-initiative.html

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 5:14:38 PM

I have to admit, sometimes I find your sources really surprising. Now do you really expect me to take it seriously from a source with a signature line like that? I take racism very seriously.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Hound, you are wrong once again
Date:	3/24/2010 5:24:06 PM

Why don't you one time do two seconds of research before you dismiss a story because you don't like the source. You call me the master of the universe but when compared to your invincible ignorance I guess I am. You are either lazy or blinded by your ideology....

See the quote below from the SEIU website.

10:16 AM Eastern - March 11, 2009
SEIU, Coalition Partners Launch Retirement USA Initiative
By Kate Thomas

Initiative will work to establish principles for a visionary retirement income system

Retired_couple.jpgSEIU partnered with The Economic Policy Institute (EPI), the National Committee to Preserve Social Security and Medicare and the Pensions Rights Center to launch Retirement USA, an initiative working for a new retirement system that, along with Social Security, will provide universal, secure, and adequate income for future retirees.

Why do we need the Retirement USA Initiative?

Because the system we have now has failed most Americans---a harsh reality that EPI Vice-President Ross Eisenbrey spelled out at the launch of the initiative yesterday:

"Only half of full-time workers have a retirement plan through their employer, and coverage is much lower for part-time workers. Participating in a plan doesn't mean a worker is adequately preparing for retirement. The median 401(k) account balance was only $25,000 in 2006---$40,000 for workers approaching retirement age. In other words, half of those who had a 401(k) were nearing retirement with less than $40,000 in their account.

"Account balances have fallen by a third since late 2007, leaving many older workers unable to retire just as our economy is shedding millions of jobs. The failure is broad and deep. It's not just a few people falling through the cracks: most of us are already in the ravine. In the private sector, only two in 10 of us have a secure pension. Three in 10 have only a 401(k) or similar savings plan-and the rest of us are totally out of luck."

The Retirement USA principles will be used by SEIU and its partner organizations in this initiative as a framework for evaluating how well proposals would fulfill the goals of universal coverage, and secure and adequate income. The principals would include concepts such as:

* Pooled assets that are professionally managed;
* Shared responsibility among employers, employees and the government;
* Payouts only at retirement;
* Benefits that could move with you even if you change jobs

"The financial crisis and the economic recession have shone a spotlight on the inadequacies of today's system," said Stephen Abrecht, Director of Benefits and Capital Stewardship for SEIU. "The time to act is now."

Karen Ferguson, director of the Pension Rights Center, has invited others to submit proposals for a new system, which will be examined at the fall conference. Proposals will be posted on the Retirement USA web site at www.retirement-usa.org.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hound,
Date:	3/24/2010 6:41:40 PM

I take racism very seriously also, especially reverse racism, misplaced racism, and stupid accusations of racism. I think you need to become more informed, you're embarrassing everyone else on the forum, on your behalf. How would you like to share your gov'ment pension with the garbage collectors of the world?

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	GF, makes you proud to be a democrat
Date:	3/24/2010 6:45:32 PM

communist along with your SEIU friends, don't it.

Name:	Barneget -	Reply
Subject:	Proposal by the President of the SEIU
Date:	3/24/2010 8:04:34 PM

I find it interesting that opposition to any, or all, programs forwarded by the current administration, congressional leadership, or entrenched bureaucrats is generally not coming from the self reliant, rationally thinking, tax paying, retirement saving, personally responsible proud Americans, but from RACISTS!!! I wonder if the forum member injudiciously using that word, to describe opponents of exponential growth in the reach and role of central government, would be willing to share her understood definition. My guess is "not".
Two possible reasons --
first, she is ignorant of the source and history of word, and/or
second, she is a member of one of first 3 groups listed, and extensively schooled to use it to stifle argument.
I'd really like to know why these folks are considered racist? Why are they not considered "culturalists", "family valuists", "characterists", "concernedists" or maybe "responsible citizens"?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey Wixieeee
Date:	3/25/2010 1:16:50 AM

Why do you make the asinine assumption that I support everything that is proposed by some Democrat any more than you support the Republicans 100% of the time? Do you support the Pension Guaranty Corporation which is a federal entity that takes over failed pension plans rather than allow them to just be closed? It is an example of the feds bailing out private business for poor investment decisions and unfunded plans. What do you think of this communist concept?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I'm not Wrong
Date:	3/25/2010 8:27:25 AM

About Lotowners source. Did you look at his link?

At any given time, there are a million "proposals" floating around Washington. It's not exactly news. Most of them die from lack of support.

But maybe, just maybe, you should try keeping an open mind instead of just automatically dismissing every new idea. Have you ever just taken a new idea and turned it over in your mind, before just dismissing it.

Think about this rationally -- what do you actually think the chances of the government "seizing" your retirement savings? I mean really.

So many of you just exist in raw fear of anything new.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You can
Date:	3/25/2010 8:30:31 AM

call it whatever you want and try to disguise it, but racism is racism. And the source for racism is fear of what you don't understand.

Ignorance occurs when you refuse to even consider a new idea before automatically rejecting it. And just from your post, it's clear that you are most comfortable categorizing people.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Aesop et al
Date:	3/25/2010 8:41:01 AM

I know a (now retired) colonel who found one of his civil service workers running a photography business on his (classified) Pentagon computer. Col X was unable to fire the guy or to get him prosecuted. The only way to get rid of him was to remove his security clearance… which was done. The civilian was moved away to a non-classified area, but at no reduction in pay… where I assume his automatic promotions continued to arrive on time and his photo business flourishes. Ah, the good deeds of the unions.

For those who are confused about the meaning of this entire thread… indeed much of the content of this forum, please google the following fables:

- The Golden Goose (“Die goldene Gans”, Grimm),
- The Ant and the Grasshopper (Aesop),
- The Tortoise and the Hare (Aesop), and
- The Fox and the Grapes (Aesop), and especially
- The Emperor’s New Clothes (“Kejserens nye Klæder”,
Andersen)

Each of these fables has a profound truth imbedded therein. As one reads them, he (or she to be PC) decides to which character he identifies. The real truth to this post is that every conservative on this forum has read and understands the messages of these fables.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Aesop et al
Date:	3/25/2010 9:59:36 AM

If the civilian did not get fired, then it was because the COL decided not to take it on or could not prove it. I fired an Office Director for running an outside business from his government office. After I had his security clearance suspended, it was pretty easy.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GF& Wixieeee&...
Date:	3/25/2010 10:15:08 AM

GF makes good point on Pension Guardians...is it Communist? ..or not? ..or a safeguard for the average Joe? or...?
-I remember when the pension safeguard (my father's name for it) all started...it was a result of the failure of Studebaker. I remember cuz I always wanted a Studebaker Golden Hawk, but there weren't any more new ones when I had enough money to buy...sad.
-Anyway, ....the dems were the party that pushed it thru (I was a dem then) and it was finally signed under Nixon or Ford (I'm too lazy to check today)
-BUt the pension fund provides two (at least) good lessons that relate to our new Health Bill.
-One: it has had a gazillion amendments, which have made it better ...and worse...but totally impossible to understand unless you are specializing lawyer or taxman ...just ask anybody involved in Airline bankruptsies. Amendments have already started on teh health bill, and as long as we have the dem majority we will have more amendments that will transform the health bill into a fully government-controlled, single payer socialized medicine system. The Camel's nose... (M-RET's Aesop?).
-Two: The government itself doesn't pay attention to its own rules (one of the reasons for the recent financial meltdowns). The government has looked the other way, made stupid penion vitality assessments, constantly changes the evaluation calculus, etc....so we are now at the point where the fund can no longer pay all the benefits that will soon be needed without either taking more money from the general budget or placing higher taxes on teh companies that played the game fairly, and for doing so will now be punished.
-THE GOVERNMENT CAN NOT BE TRUSTED TO EFFICIENTLY RUN ANY FINANCIAL ACCOUNTING SYSTEM!! HEALTHCARE WILL BANKRUPT YOUR SAVINGS FIRST THROUGH MISMANAGEMENT AND THEN THROUGH GAOVERNMENT INDUCED INFLATION TO COVER THE FAILURE OF ITS SPENDING POLICIES.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	This is ALL about Options
Date:	3/25/2010 10:27:59 AM

Hmmm... it takes a private corporation less than an hour to call security, find some empty boxes, and supervise the FLAGRANT violator out the door. Because, having the computer hard drive for evidence is enough to show cause.

Hound used the phrase “decided not to take it on.” Therein lays the problem with the civil service employee termination-for-cause system. A military officer may not have enough time at station to manage the excruciatingly long process. Taking the security clearance is enough to remove the violator from the secure work area and from the colonel’s team. I really don’t know the time scale involved with my friend’s situation. Either truth works for me. With respect to my civil service personnel, I marginalized the incompetent or lazy and rewarded the dedicated and industrious. I did have one warrant officer whom I “sent to see the commander.” He subsequently went to the brig.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	I'm not Wrong...maybe
Date:	3/25/2010 10:31:23 AM

Hound,
-There really is a movement a foot to transfer IRA's and tax-deferred 401Ks, etc. to government control.
-Teh argument the government is using is that people are unhappy and fearful as a rsult of teh large losses/decreases in their 401's and IRA's over the last two years.
-Certain congressional committees and congressmen/women are talking about offering people the chance to transfer the value of their 401's into government bonds that will guarantee 3% above inflation. There are several variations of this idea. These proposals are all talk at the moment, but getting more traction, and eventually one will take hold if this present cast of clowns stays around.
-This transfer to bonds sOunds good and it is good for some. Problem is that the governemnt will then use these trilliions of dollars, just like they used Social Security monies, to fund other programs. When people then retire and want their money, the government will then again have to raise taxes to pay them off.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Yes you are!!!
Date:	3/25/2010 11:28:50 AM

Hound, you are truly invincibly ignorant if you don't think you are wrong. You impugned the validity of the information based on the source. It is there is plain English in what you wrote. Only a fool or an idiot would read what you wrote any other way.

I proved with 100% certainty that the basis of what he took from the source was in fact right from the SEIU website. You absolutely befuddle me.....

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	You can
Date:	3/25/2010 12:19:53 PM

Hound,
-This forum is much more fun when you're on it.
-Reference your two points above.
-A new idew idea: I agree with you that to roll a new idea around inside your head is great fun. To reject a new idea outright, is truly the sign of a deep seeded ignorance. But the key for progress is knowing how to evaluate that new idea. What is the mental process? I think that people who do that well are either trained in the logic studies of old Greek scholars, or just have the native ability to effectively analyze a new concept in the way of the old Greeks.
-Racism: I disagree with you on your definition of racism, the fear of thar which we don't understand. That doesn't make much sense to me. Perhaps you'd like to explain that a little more to the forum. I'm missing it. What I'm not missing though is the leftist/liberal/progressive tactic of calling almost every dissent to their socialist/statist ideas as being racist in an attempt to shout down and shut down this dissent. It's amazing how many lazy thinkers fall for this tactic.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Hey GF
Date:	3/25/2010 2:31:30 PM

Sorry I wasn't available earlier to answer you weak,very lame retort, but I see others have very effectively slammed you head against the wall. Any more comments?

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hey WIXIEEEEEEEE
Date:	3/25/2010 2:56:24 PM

Why don't you ANSWER the question? Tell me who "slammed" me? You are a perfect example of a Wing Nut who wants to hide under "someone else answered" If you have convictions then simply state your opinion of the Pension Guaranty Corp that guarantees pensions. Is it communist and socialism?

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I have read about the Proposal
Date:	3/25/2010 3:22:59 PM

to allow people to transfer their 401K funds into gov't bonds. I'm sure that given the devastation that the market inflicted on some people's 401Ks, this may look like a good option. Personally, I wouldn't do it, but for some risk adverse people, it would give them some security.

I saw a poll the other day that a staggering percentage of people polled had less than $10,000 put away for retirement. So maybe requiring people to put money into a government fund for retirement may not be such a bad thing. They could be protected from a company going belly up and their retirement funds going with it. If it was mandatory and taken out of their pay directly, they wouldn't have a choice. I'm not saying that it's the ideal, but I'm saying that it might not be a bad option. Look at the number of people that have SS as their only retirement fund.

And you could be right that the funds could become "government" funds for them to tap into, just like SS. And that shouldn't be permitted.

You see MM, I like to turn these ideas around in my mind. I don't rush to judgement, and I certainly don't bust a gut about a mere proposal.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	This is ALL about Options
Date:	3/25/2010 3:27:27 PM

I see no value in marginalizing employees. I used to correct them, encourage them, coach them, and if they resisted my efforts, I got rid of them.

BTW, it's no longer an "excruisiatingly" long process to get rid of people. If you have the documentation and have made reasonable efforts, then you can have them gone within 3 months. I got the Office Director fired in less than 3 momths.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Huh? Not consider the Source?
Date:	3/25/2010 3:28:42 PM

You must be kidding.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	You can
Date:	3/25/2010 3:34:04 PM

I didn't call anyone a racist. Go look at Lotowners basic link. Look at the signature line. To me, anyone who would make such a statement is a racist by definition.
And yes, in my personal opinion, most racism is based on fear of what is not understood. I'm not asking you to agree with me.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	You must be kidding
Date:	3/25/2010 4:56:27 PM

I provided you with the same information directly from the SEIU website!!! What more do you need? Are they lying about supporting something on their own website?

Honestly Hound, are we even talking about the same thing? What are you reading?

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	Racism????
Date:	3/25/2010 6:34:41 PM

Hound,
-OK , fair enough, you didn't ask me to agree with you on your definition of racism.

-But on the other hand, I can't help disagreeing with you on your definition.

you wrote; " And yes, in my personal opinion, most racism is based on fear of what is not understood. I'm not asking you to agree with me."

-Well,, if that's what you believe is the definition of racism, then that could be why you think so many people are racists and why so many subjects seem racist to you.

-Most people understand racism to be the belief that a person's race determines that person's capacities, and that as a result, one race or another has more or lass capacities i relation to other races, i.e., that one race can be better or worse by its very essence.

-Your definition of racism, i.e.,fear of what is not understood, would in most people's mind more closely resemble paranoia.

Name:	wix -	Reply
Subject:	Gone
Date:	3/25/2010 6:41:56 PM

First, I must admit, I haven't lost any sleep over PGC any more than I worry about the climate change. I always made my own way and never worked where I felt a pension would be an important aspect of my career. I always preferred to rely on my own ability to earn a living, rather than depend on a pension to see me through my retirement. Being a UAW GM worker, or a government worker never appealed to me, since I learned quickly the real money is earned by working smart and working for yourself. By doing so you can earn enough to be independent of government programs and government dependence forever. You probably don't understand the concept, but it worked for me. You see the Pension Guaranty Corp. doesn't apply to me, if you work for someone like GM and expect to receive your union pension then it probably is important, but thank goodness I made it the smart way and don't need the gov'ment to protect me.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	And what the HE!! is SS.
Date:	3/25/2010 6:51:57 PM

We pay into into it our entire working lives but there is NOTHING there. Bush tried to privatize SS and was excoriated for it.

This 'confiscate the retirement plans' has been around for 17 years. It was first floated under Clinton, but his phillandering used up his political capital so he didn't try to advance it. They are using Hugo he Horrible as the example of how to do it.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Take racism seriously?
Date:	3/25/2010 7:25:08 PM

Yea right!! Obviuosly you don't even understand the meaning of the word. I just went to the link to see what his tag line is. I LOVED IT!! Reminded me of when my sister said I was racist for not supporting the messiah. I informed her that I don't support nancy or harry either so I must feel that I genetically superior to white men and women too.

The word means nothing in todays society. I has been warped and perverted to suit the likes of liberals like yourself.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Racism????
Date:	3/25/2010 7:52:21 PM

"Most people understand racism to be the belief that a person's race determines that person's capacities, and that as a result, one race or another has more or lass capacities i relation to other races, i.e., that one race can be better or worse by its very essence."

Yes, and the basis for that belief is fear of a people that they don't understand and have no experience dealing with.

And now I'm done with this thread.

Name:	Yankee06 -	Reply
Subject:	Racism???? Really???
Date:	3/25/2010 8:51:24 PM

Hound,

-You write in above email after accepting the definition of racism: " Yes, and the basis for that belief is fear of a people that they don't understand and have no experience dealing with.
"

-That's just nuts, ...whoa, maybe that's a little strong. However, most racism doesn't result from having "...no experience dealing with (a race)...," but rather, the other way round.

-It was the old white plantation owners belief that the black slave was less than a man, tha allowed the owner to use the slave like cattle. That's not a lack of understanding, that's not a lack of having experience dealing with ...the slaves. On the other hand, today, many blacks have racist views about whites, believeing that white's inherently hate blacks, that all whites want to subjugate blacks, that whites are incapable of justly running a major black city, etc. Again, that racism is based on "experience with" whites subjugating them, etc. Racism usually results from bad "experiences with" other races.
-Now what you're probably talking about is that racism would become less over time if whites and blacks worked together, lived together, went to school together, etc. And in alot of cases that is true, --and in alot of cases not true. But it is the concept we have been trying to base our society on for at least the last half century. Slow going , huh?
-Most social anthropologists will say that the real essence of racism exists in the very survival instinct of all living things as highlighted by Darwin's theory of revolution. Everything that is different is threatening until proven otherwise. It's a discussion we should all have and understand, but unfortuneately, this forum is too restricted. I guess that's why we have bars and happy hours! Can I buy you a drink?

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	I'd be done too if I said that many stupid things
Date:	3/25/2010 9:46:49 PM

Tis better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth (or is this case type on your keyboard) and remove all doubt. Hound, you are the quintessential Obama supporter.....

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	For always there are...
Date:	3/25/2010 10:32:44 PM

It is not good karma to drive Hound off of this forum. She is somebody's daughter. C'mon, you know what I mean. When you stop at a traffic light and you leer at the woman in the car next to you... remember, that her life is just as important to her as yours is to you. Her dreams are just as real as yours. You do not know that her life is richer or poorer than yours.

The light will turn green... as it always does. And you will go forward with your own aspirations. As will she.

Who knows, she might even be able to kick your…

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	For always there are...
Date:	3/26/2010 11:46:04 AM

I'm not trying to drive her off the Forum. She was the one who said she didn't come here often because it was "boring". We usually get this from her when she is called out for false statements and then called out again when she resorts to "I worked for the government" rationale even when she is factually, objectively wrong about something.

One of my few pet peeves is when people say something that isn't true or try to demonize someone as a racist because they disagree with Obama. That is objectionable and should not be allowed to stand. I am all for her insights and opinions and we often agree. But I'm not going to sit by and let her present factual errors to support a position. If she can't take that then she just needs to surround herself with like minded people that will sycophantically agree with each other based on emotion and not fact.

I like Hound and I value her input but she needs to be factual.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	For always there are...
Date:	3/26/2010 7:57:31 PM

I just want to keep on hearing from her on the forum. Otherwise, I might hear only my views confirmed. From time to time I halt on her words. Mostly, is it just a brief pause. It helps me to keep my own ducks in line (Hmmm... have you ever been to the Peabody?)

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