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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Tea Party Charges
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Date:
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4/13/2010 10:25:42 PM
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Racists! That incendiary charge hurled by Democrats at Tea Party activists protesting against ObamaCare was shown to be totally false by Jack Cashill in his article "A Closer Look at the Capitol Steps Conspiracy".
URL: http://atprome.blogspot.com/2010/04/letter-from-nbra-chairman-frances-rice.html#comments
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Tea Party Charges
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Date:
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4/14/2010 8:08:17 AM
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While I don't think Racism is a key element of the Tea Party, I do think that it may give some people who are racists an outlet to vent their outrage that a black man is President. Some people are just filled with hate.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Tea Party Charges
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Date:
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4/14/2010 8:33:38 AM
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They don't need the tea party to hate and they have no place in that particular movement. However, there is already a concerted effort on the part of the left to send people to tea party events with racist signs and then film themselves so as to discredit the others there. They are in for a big surprise. They are going to be shouted down, castigated and run out of these events.
This isn't about Obama's color because they just as vehemently oppose Pelosi and Reid. I know, they hate Pelosi because she is a woman and Reid because he is a mormon and Barney Frank because he is a rump ranger and Chris Dodd because he is a......oh wait a second, he is just a white guy. Maybe, just maybe they oppose these people because they believe their vision for America is wrong and it has nothing to do with their race, creed, gender or national origin.....
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Tea Party Charges
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Date:
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4/14/2010 8:37:25 AM
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Yes some are filled with hate. Like you for all things Bush/Republican. Like all democrats toward ANY oppisiton to their way of 'thinking'. All you sanctamonious (sp?) dems feel that only you are 'thoughtful', 'caring', 'compassionate', etc.
Hate spews from the left like water through Bull Conners fire hoses. but is ignored by you and your lefty buddies in the MSM.
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| Name: |
vine
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| Subject: |
Tea Party Charges
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Date:
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4/14/2010 8:43:47 AM
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Some people play the race card when they know they can't win any other way. If it makes TH feel any better just know the Tea Party loves the black half of BO but not the white half.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Gime a break
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Date:
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4/14/2010 11:30:49 AM
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Hound ... you have to be kidding. While there we may never get rid of all racist thinking, you are way off base with your thinking on this. People dislike Obama for his policies, agenda and dislike for america and the principles that this country was founded on ... including being a Christian nation.
For most it has nothing to do with the color of his skin and that he is 50% black and a Muslim.
You and many other democrats disliked Bush and other republicans ... it is absurd for you to even suggest that people can not like Obama for anything other than he is partially black.
You are starting to show how narrow minded you are. Very disappointing.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gime a break
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Date:
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4/14/2010 5:54:27 PM
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First of all WW, let me correct you again. I voted for GWB TWICE. I didn't hate GWB, I disagred with his policy in Iraq. I disliked the people that surrounded him on that particular issue. I did not vote for John McCain because I knew he would continue the Iraq war and would likely expand the war in the Middle East in ways that I think will waste money and lives, and not achieve an objective.
Secondly, I don't approve of any namecalling and disrespect, no matter who or which side is doing it. No, I don't think we will ever erase racism completely -- but I don't think that is a reason to tolerate it. While I believe that some Democrat supporters probably do attend the Tea Party rallies, but I don't believe for a minute that they are carrying racist signs so they can be photographed. I am having trouble believing that each of you would not be equally outraged in this day and time at even the allegation of racism. You claim you believe in the Constitution and you claim you love this country, so I find your willingness to tolerate an allegation of racism very surprising indeed.
MM, yes, I believe that people who hate will use any outlet they can to push their agendas. I believe that there are people who would identify would the Tea Party values, and try to use it as an outlet to really push their racism agenda. Note that I say that I DO NOT believe that is a majority in the Tea Party or the reason for their existence, or even that they would tolerate it on a personal level. I believe this because there are also people on the left who have specific agendas and try to use liberal activities as a outlet for their specific agendas.
Finally, if I was willing to believe that Democrats are sending people with signs to Tea Party events, I would also have to be willing to believe that Tea Party representatives are going to liberal rallies and showing signs too, to try to create controversy for them.
And I think that would say some very sad things about Americans in general. I prefer to think it is a rogue few.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
And WW, P.S.
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Date:
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4/14/2010 6:00:51 PM
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On three separate occasions I have heard local people make racist remarks in public places about Obama. So it's not just about his policies, and practices. I don't think I just happened to overhear remarks about Obama by the only 3 people in the Southeast that dislike Obama because he is black. I think there is a certain segment of the population of that is outraged that a black man is President. Some of them are even in my family.
I don't necessarily think it is the majority, but the racists are out there.
And you know they are too, even if you want to pretend otherwise.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Problem Is
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Date:
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4/14/2010 7:21:20 PM
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Discrimination abounds wherever there are differences between people. Someone mentioned a while back the different tribes in Rwanda (Hutus and Tutsis)- there's also discrimination based on religion, based on ethnicity, and based on financial and/or cultural "status". "Old money" has disdain for the "nuveau riche" (sp?) Not sure whether you are aware, but there is even discrimination within the black community based on the amount of pigmentation a person has...yes, darker skinned black people are discriminated against by lighter skinned black people....
You are fighting an uphill battle against human nature. There will always be discrimination. Always has, always will. You don't have to like it - I don't either, but it is there.
Now, as to this forum and the commenters, I do believe that the arguments against Obama have had little to nothing to do with his race but his policy. I was raised in Arkansas and yes, I am prejudiced against blacks. Can't help that I am prejudiced, was raised to be prejudiced, but I CAN help how I handle that prejudice, and work very hard every day to not let it influence everyday actions. Does prejudice against blacks color my opinion of Obama? To a minute extent, yes. But it is his policies, his agenda, his singular mission to transform a great country into a land of rampant mediocrity that far far exceeds any mere thoughts about the color of his skin. The man is destroying our country as we know it, and the only alternatives are worse than what we have/had.
How you can be so convinced that you voted for a better choice than John McCain absolutely escapes me. We know how bad Obama is. We don't know - and never will - that McCain would be as bad as you fear.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Problem Is
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Date:
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4/14/2010 8:38:26 PM
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I realize that we all have our prejudices. I have prejudices against engineers. I anticipate that they will be obscure and arrogant and boring. I expect that they will not be able to write, unable to explain things without confusing everyone in the room, and that they won't be open to anyone's opinion except theirs. That they will be insensitive and not even aware of other people's feelings. Even though I know engineers who aren't like this at all, when I meet an engineer, I expect not to like him/her. I would cringe at the thought that an engineer would run for President.
And even though I've sometimes had the urge to converge on an Old Crows meeting and hurl insults at them, I've always kept it under control.
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With maybe a couple of exceptions, I think you are right about the people on this forum. I do think it is Obama's ideas and policies that are driving the criticism, not his color. But, it would seem that most of the people on the forum here have a variety of life experiences and exposures, and I think it makes a difference.
I could not take a chance on McCain and national security. And there are domestic issues, like health care that I thought needed to be addressed. Maybe not in lieu of the economy and maybe not right away, but I didn't think that McCain would address them. I'm still worried about our infrastructure, but I would like to see Obama spend more focused time on the economy, instead of flirting around with these other issues. He sometimes worries me that he is an intellectual dilettante and too willing to take the advice of others instead of digging in. But as you well know, there are a lot of people in Washington that are that way.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Wait a minute
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Date:
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4/14/2010 9:07:29 PM
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Don't I remember that Feb is an engineer....:>)
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
And
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Date:
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4/14/2010 9:24:18 PM
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Maybe we need to vaporize Washington and rebuild the capitol in Des Moines, Omaha, or Casper. We'd still be screwed up, but in a different way.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Gime a break
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Date:
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4/14/2010 9:42:11 PM
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Your quote, "Finally, if I was willing to believe that Democrats are sending people with signs to Tea Party events, I would also have to be willing to believe that Tea Party representatives are going to liberal rallies and showing signs too, to try to create controversy for them."
First of all I never said Dems but I suspect you are right because all liberals are Dems. You are such an ideologue that you just can't even believe what the liberals themselves say. They have formed a group called crashtheparty and have presented tactics, are calling for recruits and have promised to disrupt the events in order to discredit the movement. No one is making this up, they are just assuming that the organizers are not liars and will follow through with their plans.
As for Tea Partier's crashing liberal events show me the evidence. We have evidence of the intent of liberals so show us yours. There is none because we don't need to infiltrate liberal events to make them look stupid, they do that all by themselves. We just let them be themselves. Honestly Hound, you must be a liberal because as Reagan said, you believe so much that just isn't so. Can't you have the intellectual honesty for once to admit that this group may actually do what they promised to do? Is that really so hard?
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It's a thought. But maybe instead of vaporizing Washington we could turn it into condos.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Wait a minute
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Date:
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4/14/2010 10:55:00 PM
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No. He was a business major. The Army decided to assign him to the Corps of Engineers.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Gime a break
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Date:
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4/14/2010 11:00:46 PM
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Okay, whatever you say.
I still say the Republicans and the Tea Partiers need to devote themselves to finding a viable candidate for 2012. I might even vote Republican again if they can find one who is not a total retread or whack job.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
And WW, P.S.
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Date:
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4/15/2010 6:33:19 AM
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Yes there will be racism ... people do not like jewish people, asians, mexicans, etc. It is not right, but it is also what goes with a melting pot like the US and the freedoms we enjoyed and are slowing being taken away.
Hearing racist comments about Obama is just as disrrespectful as the comments and allegations made about GW. Those were wrong as well and did not see the liberals outraged about that.
Double standard .... liberals are only outraged and shout racism and respect for the president when it is someone they support.
As for McCain expanding the war ... we will never know now will we. But what has Obama done ... he shut down Gitmo .... oops he said he would but never did ... he pulled out of Iraq.... oops did not do that either. He has pulled down more troops than Bush did after the surge worked .... nope not that either .... he focused his attention on Afganistan ... well kind of - it took him months to respond to the Generals request and then did not give him what he asked for and the death toll is way up and now the Afgan President is threatening to join forces with the Taliban ...
I am sure Obama is doing a better job than McCain would have in both Iraq and Afganistan .... keep dreaming.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
That's the plan
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Date:
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4/15/2010 8:42:49 AM
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I think the point of the people in the tea party movement is to influence the GOP to promote conservatives that actually believe in a strong economy, limited government, liberty, freedom, a strong national defense, etc. What I think will not be in the forefront in this election cycle is social issues although Dems will do whatever they can to try to turn the discussion away from the economy and ObamaCare. It won't work.
I am curious, were there any GOP candidates in the primaries during the last cycle that you would have supported? My guess is of all of them Romney maybe? Surely not Ron Paul. I would not disagree that the choices were not the greatest but I am still convinced that any of them are better than what they got. I also recognize we will have to agree to disagree on that.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
The Captain of Our Ship
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Date:
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4/15/2010 8:42:51 AM
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I would vote for Dr. Condoleezza Rice, PhD for president. I would seriously consider GEN Colin Powell (he would be more centrist... like McCain). My admiration for these two eminent persons is not tempered one bit by their color or gender. My respect for them is generated by their record of performance and their devotion to our country. Both of them are intelligent leaders having experience that eclipses that of a community organizer.
I doubt that either Dr Rice or GEN Powell would bow to a foreign leader. I prefer our POTUS to be an upright and forthright person of integrity whole believes in the concept of noblesse oblige... not arrogant... nor displaying contrived humility on inappropriate occasions. Because we ARE the most powerful nation on earth, we need to act with dignity, compassion, and restraint... not poorly feigned humility.
As the captain of a ship IS the ship... the POTUS IS the nation.
Meanwhile, our POTUS is stylin'.
MAJ, USA, Corps of Engineers, RET
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
Slight Correction to MM's post
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4/15/2010 10:26:29 AM
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It is actually www.crashtheteaparty.org. I don't want hound to have an excuse for not finding it herself. It is obvious that if it isn't on MSNBC or CNN she will never see it.
Now I dare you to click the link Hound. Then you can come back admit that once again you spout off without ANY facts.
URL: Crash the Tea Party
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| Name: |
lamont
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| Subject: |
Unbelievable....
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Date:
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4/15/2010 12:06:42 PM
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Once again Hound, it's all about race. Has nothing to do with misguided politics..... healthcare, spiraling deficits, etc. I suppose if GW would have had the same agenda as your man Obama, all would be "well." Right?
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
I'm just wondering
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4/15/2010 12:29:56 PM
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what "ism" is it that makes me oppose the Pelosi/Reid agenda? Agism? Sexism?
I will just call mine polism. It is a hatred of politicians regardless of party affilliation.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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I'm just wondering
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4/15/2010 2:56:14 PM
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I have the very same disease Lifer, it appears that they all care only about #1, and the rest of us are nothing but #2. It is time for a serious reset.
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Wait a minute
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Date:
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4/15/2010 7:01:22 PM
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I knew I heard "Engineer" in there somewhere....
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
A couple of things
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Date:
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4/15/2010 8:43:39 PM
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I'm told by a reliable source in the Army that we are in fax drawing down in Iraq. I was told "don't let anyone kid you, we are getting out of Iraq. It's happening and very quickly".
WW, read the attached article and then come back and tell me that Obama denied McCrystal and Petraus the troops.
BTW, it's a great profile on Petraus.
URL: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/05/petraeus-201005
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I'd Agree
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Date:
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4/15/2010 8:47:38 PM
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about Colin Powell, but Condoleeza? Not so much. No argument that she is a brilliant woman. But, she didn't provide great leadership at the NSC and she wasn't a great Secretary of State.
And I have a few questions in my mind about her integrity. My observation is that she spent a little too much time trying to please the President rather than advise him.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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In the last round?
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Date:
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4/15/2010 8:56:03 PM
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No. Something about Romney bothers me, but I can't put my finger exactly on what it is. Maybe he's too self-congratulatory? Don't know.
As you know, I don't like Palin or Newt, but Pawtry (MN) is interesting. I'm intrigued that he could become a successful governor in such a blue state. He speaks intelligently, doesn't seem too polarizing.
Maybe Scott Brown? Don't know enough about him yet.
I also like Eric Cantor from VA. Not that he's indicated an interest in running. But, I was impressed with him in VA too.
And my friend who is a State Delegate in VA tells me the Govenor of VA is a good, good man. Again, don't know if he has designs on the Presidency.
I'm keeping an open mind.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Unbelievable....
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Date:
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4/15/2010 9:02:46 PM
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I have never said it's only about race. Never. Yes, it is about differences of opinions about policies, but there is also an undercurrent about race too.
I don't know how many times I have said that my only real complaint about Bush was Iraq. I thought he led us well after 9/11. I could say that he should have seen the economic crash coming, but given all the discussion since it has happened, I tend to blame the monetary/financial community on that.
Sometimes a President is only as good as his advisors. Bush got some bad advice in some cases. I think his advisors overstated things, and led him down a path of their own agenda.
I think Obama gets some bad advice from his advisors, too.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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Inaccurate...
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Date:
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4/16/2010 8:20:28 AM
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And President Bush was NOT the author of the financial crisis. The policies were promulgated by the liberal Congress then in power. Bush and a group of concerned Republicans, including Senator McCain, saw the crisis coming and wrote to Congress to put a stop to the lending practices at the root of the looming failure. Democrats Barney Frank, Chris Dodd et al did nothing. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac and the whole subprime lender crowd steamed on and the banks toppled. So much for the RIGHT to acquire a mortgage and own a home even, if you can't afford it.
It’s the same as investing taxpayer money to buy unprofitable automobile companies. This too shall fail at the hands of government. And, now liberals will begin the demise of healthcare.
But, maybe that will be Bush’s fault too.
MAJ, USA, Corps of Engineers, RET
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 8:47:13 AM
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We only had a Democratic majority duing the last 2 years of the Bush Administration, and the financial crisis had it's seeds well before that. But, I'm not blaming Bush or the Republican majority Congress.
It's pointless to blame at this point. It is what it is.
I'm curious Major -- do you even have a place on Lake Martin? Your bio would seem to indicate that you are located in the Mid-Atlantic. I wonder what you find so compelling about this forum.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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In the last round?
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Date:
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4/16/2010 9:15:18 AM
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There are a number of things about Romney that bothers me but given the choices on the GOP side he seemed the best to me. I like both Palin and Newt but I think both are too polarizing, in my opinion based less on what they say or do than how the media and the netroots react to them.
Pawlenty has a lot of good ideas but not sure he can muster the nomination because he has some RINO tendencies. Eric Cantor is a great guy and has a lot to offer. Curious what you think about Paul Ryan. His ideas on healthcare reform and other national priorities seem very well considered and he is a very bright guy and a good communicator.
You will be able to tell how vulnerable Obama is by the nominees on the GOP side. If his chances improve we will likely see a group of retreads like McCain instead of new faces. If Obama is genuinely vulnerable you may well see people like Cantor, Ryan, Pawlenty, etc. jump in with the usual cast of characters.
Keep that open mind and maybe in 2013 we will be more in agreement than not.....
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 9:19:54 AM
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What is BS?
Me thinks you'd censure me 'cause I'm not from 'round heah! Oh... and I am a retired engineer officer.
So sorry! Not only do I live here, but I have a boat on Lake Martin and I am a HOBO! (Did you not read my discourse on fishing and boating etiquette?)
That notwithstanding, I find the debate on this forum to be entertaining. One side of the political presence provides reasonable argument, based on historical perspective and a firm foundation in civics, economics, and even physics. The other side of the forum debate is evasive, resorts to name calling, blame assignment, canned phrases, and invective.
I love debate. But, it is helpful if both sides come intellectually armed. I also assume that you forfeit the argument if you take a hiatus.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 9:30:59 AM
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Hound, there is a lot of blame to go around on the financial crisis but it has been well documented that the primary driver for the downturn was programs started by Clinton and preserved and defended by Frank, Dodd and others in Congress. This crisis was clearly and unarguably caused by government intervention that distorted a market. Fannie and Freddie along with the Community Redevelopment Act, created and vehemently defended by the left in Congress, generated an environment where lenders were either encouraged or threatened into lending to those that could not afford to pay it back.
I recognize that lenders had their hand in this but let's be realistic, had the government not distorted the market they would have acted differently. But is it irrational to lend the way they did? I think not for a variety of reasons. One, they were both encouraged and threatened by the government to make these loans and accused of racism if they didn't. Two, they knew the implied gov't guarantee of Freddie and Fannie was real. Three, by being able to offload the loans they made they figured there was limited downside to a correction. Of course what they didn't realize is that what the left hand was dumping (securitized marginal loans) the right hand was buying up. Finally, they realized that they made more money originating loans and got nearly instantaneous gratification by not having to service them (by packaging them and selling them). Had the government not interfered, had Fannie and Freddie not acted as an unlimited source to offload loans instead of servicing them, lenders would have been much more realistic in gauging risk.
You cannot argue the facts and I can't comprehend why you do. This is widely accepted by everyone but the hard left in Congress.
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| Name: |
Lifer
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 10:48:04 AM
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Way back I posted a link to video of Slobbering Barney in committee meeting vehemently defending Fannie/Freddie and Franklin Raines, the dems man at the head of Fannie. This was less than 6 months before the 'crash'. She won't listen and won't even admit being wrong when evidence proves her wrong.
And BTW- just for the record Franklin Raines pulled down 90 MILLION in salary and bonuses the same year that everything Tango Uniform. You see, dems are only opposed to Republicans making money.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 4:39:38 PM
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No, I wouldn't censure you because you've not from around here. I was really just curious.
Are you planning on attending the HOBO annual meeting? If you are perhaps I will see you there.
I'm just way past pointing fingers about anything that Bush did or didn't do. We are where we are, and it's up to the current Administration to solve the problems, regardless of when and where the problems started. If they can't get the job done, then someone else will likely get a turn at bat.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
That's BS
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Date:
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4/16/2010 4:42:06 PM
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It is what it is, we are where we are and it really doesn't matter on whose watch it started. I believe that you are right about Clinton era. I just want someone to work on getting it fixed.
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