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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/17/2010 1:21:21 PM
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Jobless claims up and consumer prices are down. New home construction has also plummeted. Combine that with the lack of private sector jobs created last month and methinks we have the potential for a double dip recession. All the jobs that will be lost in the Gulf Coast with the drilling moratorium and so on will not help. And finally the significant increase in taxes for all Americans that actually pay taxes will remove even more capital from the private sector.
Watch for strong earnings in 2010 as firms push forward profits at lower tax rates and then a collapse in 2011. That is exactly what we are planning to do.
And now we have the Obama administration shaking down BP for $20B at the expense of the pensioners that rely on dividends for their living expenses.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/17/2010 5:37:58 PM
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It's BP's choice not to pay dividends, not because of any "shake-down". Their profits will still be in the billions. I'm glad that the Administation put the strong arm on BP. I see no reason for BP to skate on this one. Unfortunately, the damage that has been done to the Gulf region is going to last far longer than 5 years. And I'm not just talking the environmental impact. I expect we will see a larger number of foreclosures on beach property that anyone previously anticipated. And if we have a bad hurricane season as they have predicted, it's God help the Gulf.
All of the economic forecasts I have been reading said that there would be a small increase in the economy in 2010; the economy would stagnate in 2011 and would start to recover in 2012. I've been reading this since the beginning of the year.
As far as consumer prices being down -- I don't see how anyone who has been to the grocery store lately would make that claim.
BTW, I was in Montgomery today and had lunch in a restaurant that would normally be nearly full at lunchtime. Today it was 3/4 empty.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/17/2010 8:15:59 PM
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That's strange.. I arrived at Burger King shortly after you left and it was standing room only before I finished my double cheeze burger..
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/17/2010 10:02:08 PM
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Hmmm...so you are saying that BP came up with this idea knowing it would kill their stock price? And after all the pols are screaming for them to not pay a dividend to their "rich" shareholders? And they announce it right after the shakedown meeting. And the Messiah and the rest of the clowns take credit. But it was ll BP's choice. C'mon Hound, you know how silly that sounds? How it flies in the face of what BP and the administration said? Honestly, you can sometimes be so reasonable and then at other times you just willfully ignore the facts. I just don't get it.
No one is suggesting that BP get away with anything. What we are suggesting is that giving a government czar $20B to dole out however they please smacks of a shakedown.
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I don't eat fast food. But obviously, you do.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/17/2010 11:05:16 PM
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Would it make you feel better if BP give it out?
BP is in a PR nightmare. Not paying out a dividend saves the company money. Any shortfall to their stock price will be only temporary. It also makes the company seem both "responsible" and "suffering the effects of the tragedy".
There is no shakedown. You and I both know that BP will likely never pay out half of that money, and making the "commitment" might offset some of the lawsuits by "the little people". It's strictly a PR move to show that they are "concerned" and regretful. It's like the CEO appearing before Congress. He's a Brit, and he doesn't care about our Congress. But, it's a wonderful free opportunity to let people see how "sorry" the CEO is about the situation. What is a few hours of his time listening to a bunch of American politicians prattle on?
It's multinational company. I don't have any sympathy for them at all.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/18/2010 9:11:43 AM
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Yes it would make me feel better if BP were responsible for doling out the $20B. And you never answered my question as to how this was "voluntary" when all evidence and the statements of your beloved government directly contradict you. Your animosity toward business would be much appreciated in D.C. these days, at least until November.
As for sympathy, no one is looking for you to be sympathetic toward BP. I have no sympathy for them. They made a series of decisions that led to this disaster and they will have to pay. I do have sympathy toward all those pensioners that rely on the dividend for their living expenses. And I have sympathy for the shareholders that have BP stock in their 401k and IRA that have lost tens of billions of dollars in value. I have sympathy for businesses and individuals that will lose their jobs because of this accident and the government's response to it. What I don't want to have happen in the interests of scoring political points, our federal government, either through the ineptness of Obama or the avarice of Congress, to drive BP out of business. If they do that then the taxpayers will be picking up the bill. The best thing that can happen is for BP to continue to operate successfully so they can have the cash to pay for this mess. Any desire by anyone to the contrary is just plain stupid on their part.
You act like suspending the dividend is a good thing because it "hurts BP". How can you be so economically illiterate? It doesn't hurt the company because a company can't feel pain or sorrow for halting the dividend. Who it hurts are real people just like you and I. The vast majority of them (99.999%) had absolutely nothing to do with any of these decisions that were made. It hurts their employees who are just trying to get up every day and do their jobs and make a living. It hurts hard working Americans that own BP stations that have lost customers. It hurts the millions of shareholders, many of whom rely on the dividend to pay for food, medicine, shelter, transportation, etc. Ultimately it will hurt every single American that will be forced to pay higher gas prices if Obama is successful in once again using a good crisis to implement his economy-destroying cap and tax scheme. You see a corporation is is not a separate entity distinct from the employees and shareholders. It is an amalgamation of people, honest, hard working folks like you and me that have banded together pursue a business objective or purpose. If that business fails or falters it is those people who are hurt, not the "company". Maybe you are so angry at the "company" that you could care less what happens to those people but I am never going to agree with that kind of callousness.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/18/2010 1:03:47 PM
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Remember, this whole thing was an accident (we assume there was not a conspiracy to make it happen). BP… that would be the engineer on station… took a big risk and lost. No risk = no oil = no BP.
There are NO oil drilling operations anywhere that are anything less than risky. Why are we having to drill in 5000 feet of water anyway? Who forced THAT risky decision?
Do you, Hound, believe we would be better off without BP? What other oil company should we do without? Please, forego driving or riding in an automobile for just one week before answering such a question.
It was inevitable that this would happen. That it happened to a foreign company, in international waters, off of our coastline… chose where YOU want it to happen.
It takes courage to take risks. We benefit from the winning plays more than suffer from the losing ones. We should reward courage if it benefits us, but we lack the guts to take risk ourselves. Thank God, not all men are placid.
Fishing and tourism will be restored to the Gulf Coast (I have NOT cancelled my Orange Beach condo in October). Gulf Coastal jobs will be lost to the trouncing of the oil companies. Ours is a world in which we trade in risk… whether we touch it or not.
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| Name: |
alahusker
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| Subject: |
Sorry
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Date:
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6/18/2010 6:30:22 PM
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Well Ya, also average 3 hours in the gym 5-6 times a week = 5 miles swimming, 7 1/2 walking and a good bit of weight training.. Want to arm wrestle this old dude?? I can do a double Mac on occasion and not feel a bit guilty.. LOL
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Sorry
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Date:
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6/18/2010 7:03:17 PM
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(I have NOT cancelled my Orange Beach condo in October) That is still about 4 months away. What is the last day you can cancel and still receive your deposit back? I truly hope you get to use the rental in Oct. But, to suggest you are special because you have not canceled an Oct rental is meaningless in Jume.
The risk the engineer took was to cut costs. Hardly a risk that one should suggest is part of the risk of business when the consequence is totally tragic to save a few bucks.
Why don't you make reservations for a weekend in July and August?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
MAJ
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Date:
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6/18/2010 7:04:36 PM
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My post above was directed to you. Cheers.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Cheers? Really?
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Date:
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6/18/2010 7:56:14 PM
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Okay, Fishing… since you troubled to challenge me:
“(I have NOT cancelled my Orange Beach condo in October) That is still about 4 months away. What is the last day you can cancel and still receive your deposit back?” I GO EVERY YEAR, IN OCTOBER. BECAUSE, THE KIDS ARE BACK IN SCHOOL… I’VE BEEN GOING THERE IN OCTOBER FOR OVER TEN YEARS.
“I truly hope you get to use the rental in Oct. But, to suggest you are special because you have not canceled an Oct rental is meaningless in Jume.” MEANINGLESS IN JUME (sic)… WHAT DOES THAT MEAN… MEANINGLESS? WHERE DID I SUGGEST I WAS ‘SPECIAL’.
“The risk the engineer took was to cut costs.” UH… YES, TO CUT COSTS… YOU KNOW… THE NUMBER THAT CRANKS BY AT THE PUMP.
“Hardly a risk that one should suggest is part of the risk of business when the consequence is totally tragic to save a few bucks.” YEP… HE DECIDED TO RISK THE GULF COAST USA TO SAVE A FEW BUCKS. OBVIOUSLY, YOU ARE NOT ONLY CLUELESS BUT CYNICAL.
“Why don't you make reservations for a weekend in July and August?” BECAUSE, I AM BUSY PROPOSING ON ENGINEERING CONTRACTS IN THE SUMMER, JUST BEFORE THE END OF THE FISCAL YEAR. I CLEAN UP HAZARDOUS WASTE AND UNEXPLODED ORDNANCE, A RISKY BUSINESS YOU CERTAINLY DON’T UNDERSTAND.
You waste my time. Your hand wringing and bleating puts you in the category of “sheep.”
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I just don't have the taste for it. Never have. But if you do, sounds like you are entitled.
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But you are callous enough not to care about what has been done. You know, there is a side to business that isn't just about the profit and loss. Some companies actually subscribe to responsible business practices.
Do I feel sorry for the pensioners? Some, but not entirely. They are invested with a company that has callous disregard for them -- That's not the fault of my government. The USG didn't put them in this position, BP did. What leverage would the USG have to tell a multi-national company that they shouldn't pay a dividend? It's all PR and you are falling for it.
I think you are listening to too much conservative talk radio again. BP is in the wrong, not the USG. BP created their own nightmare because they took irresposible risks, not the USG. I'm not happy with the lack of focused problem solving by the COE and whatever other agencies that are too slow to act on requests to do something about the problem -- but I'm certainly not mad at my government because a multi-national company is taking a beating in the media.
Drop in their stock prices doesn't bother me in the least. Some smart investors will scoop up their stock at reduced prices and ride it out. A temporary drop in stock prices is just OPPORTUNITY for investors.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
More bad economic news.....sigh......
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Date:
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6/18/2010 8:30:46 PM
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Why is it that BP had more safety violations in the last 10 years than all the other oil companies combined?
Risk, yes; irresponsible risk, no.
Go ask your questions of the business owners, property owners and fishermen on the Gulf. See what they have to say.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Easy Hound
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Date:
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6/18/2010 9:07:06 PM
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MAJ will refer to you as a lamb rather than a hound. Baaaaaaaaa
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Easy Hound
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Date:
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6/19/2010 12:10:52 PM
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And I would so care....
The Major must be a horse since he's wearing blinders.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Why the insults?
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Date:
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6/21/2010 1:26:27 PM
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Why, just because I don't agree with the way the government is handling this am I "callous"?
In my view nothing is more callous than them refusing to allow the state of Louisiana to build the berms.
It is callous to punish employees of firms with good safety records with a moratorium on offshore drilling.
It is callous to be "neutral" on boycotts that harm BP's ability to pay for the spill.
It is callous to unnecessarily harass ships that are trying to clean up the spill.
It is callous to refuse to waive the Jones Act in order for foreign vessels to help with the spill as the much criticized Bush did in response to Katrina.
It is callous to claim that the government will put its boot on the neck of BP given the totalitarian imagery of such a comment.
It is callous to cynically modify a report after it was signed by experts to include support for the drilling moratorium when in fact most of those experts have come out and stated it would economically devastating and counterproductive to safety.
That I don't agree with the most blessed, wise and omnipotent federal government does not constitute callousness. It constitutes consistency with my conservative principals. I have never said BP should not pay for this mess and I never will. They should and they will unless Obama callously drives BP into Chapter 11 and leaves cleaning up the mess the taxpayer.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Easy Hound
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Date:
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6/23/2010 3:18:56 PM
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REL GF & Hound (in this case)
PRATTLE
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