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Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Dow headed to 5,000?
Date:	8/25/2010 9:35:47 AM

I went to cash in all my retirement accounts last week as the Dow appears to be headed to 5,000 (see the Hindenburg Omen). Now we have a number of economists who believe we are heading into a depression. If you read Amity Shlaes book The Forgotten Man you will see OCarter, soon to be renamed OHoover, is repeating all the mistakes of the past and is going to ruin the lives of millions of people with his statist, big government agenda. I am more and more convinced he will never back off from his ideology regardless of the inescapable fact that it is doomed to fail as it has always been doomed to fail because in all of history in all places it has never worked.

And meanwhile he is just coming off his 6th vacation this year renting his $20 million mansion in Martha's Vineyard, he is weighing in on building the mosque near Ground Zero and is talking about how proud he is to pull troops out of Iraq because Bush's Surge Strategy worked. How deliciously ironic it is that the only success of his administration is a result of George W. Bush (who Obama blames for everything), a policy by the way that both he and Biden opposed and said would not work. In the meantime, he is bungling the war in Afghanistan, you know, the one he said we should have fought instead of Iraq. Oh irony of ironies, we win the war he opposed to and are losing the war he supports.

It is truly sad that there is no provision in the U.S. Constitution to repeal a President because this is one who surely deserves to be repealed.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	Dow headed to 5,000?
Date:	8/25/2010 12:39:09 PM

That's ironic. I just went to cash today on both my 401K and IRA. Can't take the bleeding any longer with no "hope" for positive "change." I know I am taking some losses but, I have another 8 years to work and due to my financial projections, I will have a "liveable" retirement regardless of what the Messiah does now. As Martin Luther King said, "Free at last, free at last... Good Gawd Almighty I'm free at last." No More speculation on this Obamanation. Celah.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Just Curious
Date:	8/25/2010 3:40:04 PM

Now that you've cashed it in, what are you going to do with it? I've sometimes been tempted to do the same, but can't think of any place to park it. Frankly, I don't think the DOW is headed for 5,000 -- not even close.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Just Curious
Date:	8/25/2010 5:51:40 PM

I'm going to park it in a money market account and when/if the correction occurs I will move back into stocks. I have 15 years before retirement so I can't afford to stay out for long but with the last two corrections I wanted to get out and back in and never pulled the trigger. I am going to give this a shot and see what happens. If I were close to or retired I would not have any money in stocks. I might put 20% in gold but I am always leery when everyone is saying buy and its at all time highs you have to worry.

My biggest risks are 1) there is no correction and it muddles along at around 10,000 or grows in which case I will miss out on those returns (not a big deal); 2) there is inflation which will eat away at my principal faster than it grows at the paltry money market rates. I frankly don't consider either to be a huge risk the way things are going. I am more worried about deflation instead of inflation.

I think I could be on the sidelines anywhere from 6 to 24 months depending on the economy. We'll see how this potentially brilliant or patently stupid idea works. I just could not bear to watch my 401k drop by 50% even with 15 years to go.

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	Might Also Be Stupid
Date:	8/25/2010 5:57:17 PM

I was supposed to retire last June... but couldn't bring myself to do it! My military retirement is paltry compared to what I expected when I joined. I'm staying in the market with dividend reinvestment. I worry about that 5000 Dow!

Name:	Mack -	Reply
Subject:	Nowhere to Hide??
Date:	8/25/2010 8:07:46 PM

3Q2007 the DJIA was about 14,000.
1Q2008 the DJIA was about 13,000. Too much for me, so I bailed to MM funds.
1Q2009 the DJIA was 8800. Good decision on my part.
But, the MM return went steadily down, until today it is laughable. Free money for lenders.
Bonds?? Not much gain and a lot of risk, if you believe another recession is coming. Default is there.
What is a wise man to do??
Crash into a 401K, pay the taxes, and buy Gulf Property now?
Better than losing everything to a future tax grab on 401 savings.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	Nowhere to Hide??
Date:	8/25/2010 8:18:53 PM

I know of a nice house on Ono Island that is for sale.....

Name:	MAJ USA RET -	Reply
Subject:	That which is lost
Date:	8/25/2010 8:26:42 PM

The money that is being lost is being soaked up by the federal government.

Name:	Talullahhound -	Reply
Subject:	I considered Gulf real estate
Date:	8/25/2010 8:30:57 PM

earlier this year. I didn't want a house but I wanted a Gulf view condo. What really turned me off of it was the amount of default/foreclosures and escalating condo fees. I could get a really nice condo with a great view for a great price, but a realtor friend warned me that with increasing defaults/foreclosures, those owners that were left were facing quickly escalating condo fees, as someone has to pay for those amenities. So I backed away from that. A friend just picked up a condo in Orlando for about $35K. I'm not a fan of Florida, but after visiting my Dad recently, I found myself considering property in Vero Beach. And right now, I'm just considering it. You are right about the not being able to stay out of the market too long. I'm more optimistic. I'm not expecting things to go down a bit the rest of this year, and stabilize a bit next year. I keep hoping that Congress and the Administration is going to wake up. People are really upset and angry -- maybe upset enough and angry enough to wake Washington up.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Hound
Date:	8/25/2010 9:07:36 PM

Buy the condo in Alabama and establish residency in Florida as Florida has no sate income tax.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Martini an idea
Date:	8/25/2010 9:19:13 PM

You can buy Florida property as as investment in an IRA. I had some cash in a Money Market account outside an IRA and paid off a 5% mortgage. Consider converting some to a ROTH and when you reenter the market earn it tax free. If you truly believe that the market will go to 5,000, put some of your funds in a bear index ETF.

Name:	water_watcher -	Reply
Subject:	Martini an idea
Date:	8/26/2010 6:56:57 AM

Bear or Bull etf's are never "investment" vehicles, they are both intended for short term traders betting on news one way or the other .... or playing cyclical trends. ie: While I have similar fears as Martini due to the disaster Obama's policies have created, I do feel we are ready for a short term pop up .... but the lower highs and lower lows are scaring the heck out of me longer term. Not sure we will go to 5,000, but who knows.

But speaking of the disaster we are in and the failed Obama policies .... Fish, I see you have again just ignored a direct question and post to you. I think we would all love to be enlighted by what we must be missing. Please post your response below. I really have trouble understanding how anyone that has the ability to look at the facts can still support, let alone say Obama's policies are working or good for america. But maybe I and many others are overlooking something ... so help us out.

Name:	MartiniMan -	Reply
Subject:	Martini an idea
Date:	8/26/2010 8:48:27 AM

GF, am curious how you can use IRA funds to buy real estate if you also need a loan. My retirement funds are split between my 401k, IRA and my wife has her TSP from her days at EPA. I am looking at condo's in Destin because prices have collapsed but am worried about what Hound described, all the defaults causing the solvent owners to pay more in condo fees.

Name:	Lifer -	Reply
Subject:	Martini an idea
Date:	8/26/2010 9:06:06 AM

My plan would be buy it. List it for rent somewhere, then file against BP for everyday that it is not rented for say the next 3-5 years. I am just kidding of course, but sadly, I would abuot bet the farm that this scenario is going on all over the Gulf Coast right now.

Name:	lamont -	Reply
Subject:	In Response To Hound
Date:	8/26/2010 9:07:57 AM

I am of the opinion I am older than most on this board. I made a decision about 15 years ago that real estate should be a substantial part of my portfolio. I know, y'all are probably giggling saying what an idiot I was. However, even at todays prices, the investments I made in real estate far surpass my investment returns in stocks, bonds and mutual funds and.... I am a Registered Stock Broker. My lakehouse, even with todays deflated prices, would give me an annual return of more than 11%,for the past 7 years, should I decide to sell. My Mountain Lot would average about 13%. My 401K, for the last 7 years is laughable so, in response to your ? Hound, I have recently cashed in and swept the money into a money market until I can figure out something better. I, like you, considered Gulf front property and decided, just like you, Condo fees, maintenance, insurance costs, etc. just made the purchase to expensive even at today's rediculously low prices. So, I am certainly no genious but, sometimes you just have to sit on the sidelines and see what happens.

Name:	GoneFishin -	Reply
Subject:	Martini an idea
Date:	8/26/2010 10:47:27 PM

Martini, you can't borrow outside your IRA to buy property. You have to pay cash with IRA funds.It has to be investment property that rent or land. You can't live in it yourself and regulations are strict about renting it to a relative. Just Google the subject for some details. Another approach is a REIT in your IRA. I have never used a financial adviser so I am not going to provide sources as they are from reading and the internet.

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