| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 11:41:56 AM
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There is always an explanation for everything, but I'd like to hear someone explain why he had someone fall off the front of his boat, ran over her, and LEFT THE SCENE. And I'd like to hear the other seven people on the boat explain why they let him.
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| Name: |
CAT BOAT
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 1:51:53 PM
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Where did you find this info about leaving the scene? I want to read it.
URL: W
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| Name: |
lakeplumber
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 2:19:04 PM
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Where and when did this happen ?
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| Name: |
Rooster
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 2:26:25 PM
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I did not read anything about " leaving the scene " involving Lake Martin. Let me relay a very stupid thing that Mrs. Rooster and I observed Monday, mid-morning>>> Enjoying a nice boat ride out to one of the islands, and as we started to go out the mouth of Manoy Creek into big water, here comes a blue pontoon hauling @@@ into Manoy Creek. No big deal, except 5 adults inside the rails and 2 tenagers riding on the very front of the boat, outside the rails, with their feet hanging over the front of the boat. I would have turned around and give him a piece of my mind, but knew real quick my 115 was no match. Ordinary smart people do some real stupid things sometimes.
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| Name: |
Murph
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| Subject: |
Link to the Paper
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Date:
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9/9/2010 2:26:50 PM
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Hey Cat, here is a link to the Alex City Outlook Article. I assume this is where mythbuster is getting his info. I am interested in his explanation as well.
URL: http://www.alexcityoutlook.com/2010/09/08/man-meets-with-marine-police-in-connection-with-boating-accident/
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| Name: |
Rooster
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| Subject: |
Link to the Paper
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Date:
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9/9/2010 2:30:32 PM
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thank you!!
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| Name: |
Casey
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 3:01:33 PM
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In the Dadeville Record, the second paragraph under the story "Police meet with driver connected to boat accident" says: "Sgt. Gary Buchanan of the Alabama Marine Police said the man left the scene of the incident Sunday night. Buchanan declined to identify the man because the investigation is ongoing and no charges have been filed."
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 3:19:56 PM
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I believe that this is the law regarding boating accidents. It is different than the case with automobile accidents. If I were drunk and driving a boat or a car and killed someone. I would leave the scene and show up when I was sober. Putting myself at less risk of a life sentence.
Section 33-5-25 - Collisions, accidents, and casualties.
(a) It shall be the duty of the operator of a vessel involved in a
collision, accident, or other casualty, so far as he or she can do so
without serious danger to his or her own vessel, crew, and passengers,
if any, to render to other persons affected by the collision, accident,
or other casualty assistance as may be practicable and as may be
necessary in order to save them from or minimize any danger caused by
the collision, accident, or other casualty, and also to give his or her
name, address, and identification of his or her vessel in writing to any
person injured and to the owner of any property damaged in the
collision, accident, or other casualty.
(b) In the case of collision, accident, or other casualty involving a
vessel, the operator thereof, if the collision, accident, or other
casualty results in death or injury to a person or damage to property
in excess of two thousand dollars ($2,000), shall within 10 days file
with the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources a full
description of the collision, accident, or other casualty, including
such information as the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources
by regulation may require.
(c) All accident reports required by this section made by persons
involved in accidents shall be without prejudice to the individuals so
reporting and shall be for the confidential use of the Department of
Conservation and Natural Resources or other governmental agencies having
use of the record; except, that the Department of Conservation and
Natural Resources may disclose the identity of a person involved in an
accident when the identity is not otherwise known or when the person
denies his or her presence at the accident. No report shall be used as
evidence in any trial, civil or criminal, arising out of an accident;
except, that the Department of Conservation and Natural Resources shall
furnish upon demand of any person who has made, or claims to have made,
such a report, or upon demand of any court, a certificate showing that a
specified accident report has or has not been made to the Department of
Conservation and Natural Resources solely to prove a compliance or a
failure to comply with the requirements that a report be made to the
Department of Conservation and Natural Resources.
(Acts 1959, No. 576, p. 1442, §22; Act 2009-151, §1.)
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| Name: |
Rooster
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 3:42:59 PM
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I don't know you, and after that statement, I don't want too. If you don't stop and offer assistance, how do you know the person is dead? I feel really sorry for you!!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 3:46:38 PM
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Let's see, its 11pm after they tried to listen to a concert from the water. I am speculating but I would bet the driver was BUI and decided it would be better to leave the scene and come back the next day sober than sharing the fate of the guy who ran over those folks. If I were on the boat I would have threatened him bodily harm if we didn't go back and render aid. I suppose it is possible that none of the nine people noticed her fall off but it seems a very remote, almost inconceivable possibility to me but if it was dark and noisy I guess it is possible. But even if she fell off you would think someone would notice eventually unless they were all hammered.
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
INTERESTING READING ON TRAGEDY
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Date:
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9/9/2010 4:53:16 PM
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Here is a good article on the tragedy. After you read it, make certain you read all the comments.
http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13108624
URL: http://www.wsfa.com/Global/story.asp?S=13108624
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| Name: |
dmp
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 6:55:22 PM
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Kizma:
Based on your statement you are a poor excuse for a human being. Pathetic!
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 7:16:58 PM
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I don't drink, never have, never will. So I will never find myself in that position. However, if my best friend was in that position, and I did not want to see him spend the rest of his life in Jail, I would tell him to swim to shore and comply with the law.
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| Name: |
dmp
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/9/2010 7:22:11 PM
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Kizma: Whether you personally drink or not is irrelevant to the statement (concerning your course of action) you previously made; this is about having the moral rudder to do the right thing.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 1:22:18 AM
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Kizma: "However, if my best friend was in that position, and I did not want to
see him spend the rest of his life in Jail, I would tell him to swim to
shore and comply with the law"
So, Jim, you're all about complying with the law, AFTER your friend has broken it and in doing so, killed someone? Seems a law-abiding type such as yourself would be trying to get him to abide by the law before tragedy; the "don't boat while intoxicated" law comes to mind.
By helping your friend to evade the law until he is sober, you will have helped him evade justice. In my mind, that would make you an accomplice.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
A question for dmp and Myth
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Date:
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9/10/2010 8:10:52 AM
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If you had a 21 year old child who found himself in the position of having had a few drinks, had a friend (who also had a few) fall off a boat that the child was driving. And that friend dies as a result of drowning or being hit by the propeller.
Would you hire an attorney to advise that child how to get the least possible jail time out of the situation?
If you knew that that child could avoid spending the rest of his life in jail, being raped and beaten, would you tell that child to swim to shore and let the others on the boat attend to the dead body?
And Myth, since you published my name, which I don't mind since I often publish it myself, why not publish yours?
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 8:22:52 AM
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Take responseibility for your actions. You just Killed someone...
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
A question for dmp and Myth
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Date:
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9/10/2010 8:25:15 AM
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If you took such action " help cover it up " you would be in jail right beside him
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 8:30:21 AM
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I would have been the first one in the water to offer aid.I would not have time to think about what I should do or how I could protect myself.I guess some people will always put their self and well being before others but I hear it's real hot down their...
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 8:36:05 AM
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I'm sorry to say I don't think this will be the last accident of the season.If boaters keep pulling tubes in very very congested areas and letting someone sit on the front of a boat with their leggs in the water there will be more...What are they thinking.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 9:45:39 AM
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250, I met you for only a few minutes. However, it was long enough to know two things.
1. You would never find yourself in the position of driving a boat while intoxicated. You would not be driving a boat with people hanging off it. And you would not be driving a boat with a bunch of drunks on it.
2. If one of your loved ones ever found themselves in a tight spot, you would do whatever it took to keep them from harms way.
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 10:44:43 AM
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Thanks
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| Name: |
jalcz
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| Subject: |
A question for dmp and Myth
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Date:
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9/10/2010 11:18:04 AM
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I can't speak for anyone else, but my answer to your questions are:
Would you hire an attorney to advise that child how to get the least possible jail time out of the situation?: YES.
If
you knew that that child could avoid spending the rest of his life in
jail, being raped and beaten, would you tell that child to swim to shore
and let the others on the boat attend to the dead body?: NO. And if my child had let his friend die while scrambling to save his own neck by trying to get out of a situation that he put himself in, jail would be the least of his worries.
Hiring an attorney AFTER THE FACT is one thing; not doing all you can while you can is another.
Even if someone is going to be selfish, at least direct that selfishness towards trying to do what you can to make your actions result in injuries instead of death.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
A question for dmp and Myth
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Date:
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9/10/2010 11:32:30 AM
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but you answered a different question. In the question I posited, the friend was already dead.
"And that friend dies as a result of drowning or being hit by the propeller. "
You can't help a dead person, except to pray for the repose of that person's soul.
So once the person was dead would you advise a loved one to swim to shore to avoid a life sentence?
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| Name: |
MrHodja
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 11:39:53 AM
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You hit the nail on the head. They aren't thinking, whether due to alcohol or just plain lack of walking-around sense.
We saw many instances last weekend of knotheads endangering kids by pulling them in congested areas or when it was too dark to be safe.
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| Name: |
Campbd
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 11:56:11 AM
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Kizma—you are a reprehensible human being. To suggest someone to flee the scene after contributing to a death is unforgivable. What if one of your family members or other loved one was killed in an accident (boating or otherwise) by someone being negligent or DUI? Would you support that criminal in running away to get a lesser sentence? I doubt it! I am sure you would want full, swift justice brought against the person who just killed your family member or loved one.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 12:14:08 PM
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If I wanted to kill or imprison a person who accidentally killed my loved one, would that make it right, or me less "reprehensible" ?
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| Name: |
Campbd
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 12:24:23 PM
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The problem in question is "contributory negligence". You have referenced several times if the person causing the accident was DUI or BUI. Your quote--"If I were drunk and driving a boat or a car and killed someone. I would leave the scene and show up when I was sober. Putting myself at less risk of a life sentence."
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| Name: |
250 SEL
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| Subject: |
Shocking detail re: boat accident begs a question.
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Date:
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9/10/2010 5:11:25 PM
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I still don't get it ??? As a boat owner/operator of a boat you are the Capatin, the one in charge. As such you are the one in charge of not only the safe operation of the boat but the conduct everone on your boat.I don't care if you are the one driveing or not.If I let someonr else drive my boat I better make sure the know what the He-- they are doing because if you don't bad things can happen, I would like to hear from someone who was their.They say other not on the boat came to help then why did they let the driver leave ? I only hope that the driver left only after all aid was given and nothing else could be done.
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| Name: |
Kizma Anuice
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| Subject: |
Show me some law
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Date:
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9/10/2010 9:53:37 PM
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I may be mistaken, but the last time I looked CN was a doctrine in TORT law. Not Criminal law, which is what we are addressing here.
BTW most states, not Alabama, have abandon the doctrine in favor of Comparative Negligence!
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Thanks GF
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Date:
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9/10/2010 11:10:56 PM
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It appears based on the comments (assuming they are legit which there is no reason to believe otherwise) and the revised write up that no longer makes reference to leaving the scene that it may indeed have been a tragic accident. The suggestion that she may have been intoxicated and fell over the front of the boat in the dark makes me think the driver simply was unable to react quickly enough to stop the boat. If a 21 foot boat were going 15 mph that means it travels 22 feet every second. How many of us under those circumstances could recognize that a passenger fell off and cut the engine to idle in 1 second? I would venture to guess that during daylight you would not even register what had happened in less than a few seconds, let alone reach over and cut the engine off. And that assumes you weren't looking the other way talking to someone or looking at a gps or one of another twenty reasonable distractions.
To me this sounds like a tragic accident.
On a totally separate note, I saw all the responses to Kizma and it confirms for me why I have his comments blocked. I found him to be really objectionable a long time ago and decided it was not a good use of my time to read his posts. I suggest everyone do the same and avoid the nausea.
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| Name: |
MythBuster
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| Subject: |
A question for dmp and Myth
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Date:
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9/11/2010 1:15:19 AM
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Big fan of Ted Kennedy, are you? Admire the way he left Mary Jo in that car after he drove off the bridge, do you? Applaud the way he left that poor girl's body in the water for almost 12 hours while he swam away and went to make sure he did all he could to save his own neck? Couldn't care less about HER family and friends, could you?
ANYONE-- whether they are my kids, my friends, or perfect strangers-- needs to be prepared to face the consequences of their poor choices. If the boat operator in question was under the influence, then he shouldn't have taken the wheel without being prepared to own up to anything that might happen. In this case, what might happen is jail time. But since that was a COMPLETELY AVOIDABLE OUTCOME, it's HIS fault that he might be behind bars (though I'd bet it won't happen.) And that would be true if I was talking about my own son.
People who break the law-- and the laws of common sense-- with no fear of the consequences are one of the biggest problems in the world. And when they don't fear the consequences because they know the loopholes, or can afford high-priced attorneys who can exploit those loopholes, they are no more than lowlife scum.
And when they enable and support others who want to exploit those loopholes at the expense of others-- and the lives of others-- they are the lowest of the low. Yeah, I'm talking about YOU, JJ.
And how do I know you but you don't know me? You must not be very bright. Of course, that doesn't come as news to anyone who knows you.
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| Name: |
greycove
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| Subject: |
How could this happen?
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Date:
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9/13/2010 9:59:24 AM
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This incident is very frightening to us pontooners. This was an adult who fell over the front rail of the boat while in operation and not someone riding outside the rail. I wish we had some more detials...did the boat crash into a large wave? Did the operator shift suddenly into reverse? We hear alcohol may have been involved, but even then the person would almost have to be standing and it seems somehow the boat must have slowed very, very quickly.
Am rethinking our rules again about guests on the bow.
Our prayers and sympathy to her family.
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