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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
GOP Pledge to America
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Date:
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9/23/2010 11:47:33 AM
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I've read the draft it and it makes sense and will resonate loudly with fiscally conservative independents, Democrats and Republicans. Leftists who believe in big government statism will hate it. And of course it will be demogogued by the government media and the left wing nuts as being a give away to the rich when nothing could be further from the truth.
If you won't read it and respond with factual comments please don't bother us with the Democrat party talking points. This pledge is sound and sensible and if you don't like major portions of it you are hopeless and have given up on the American people.
URL: http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/pledgetoamerica.pdf
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| Name: |
4691
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| Subject: |
GOP Pledge to America
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Date:
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9/23/2010 6:29:41 PM
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I read it and I like it. I didn't see any points for disagreement. But as a fiscal conservative I don't think it goes far enough. I want to see a promise to balance the budget and a timeline. Not just going back to spending too much instead of spending way, way too much. And I want to see term limits supported if they are really serious about cleaning up Washington. I give it about a C+. I always vote Republican so my opinion, and others like me, is not important. The question is will this sway enough independents and democrats. I have my doubts, but remain hopeful. If the Republicans fumble again we are in store for more of the same for at least two more years. Also, and this is just a personal preference, I don't like the photos which made me feel like I was browsing a vacation brochure.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
GOP Pledge to America
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Date:
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9/23/2010 7:04:31 PM
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It's just words until they flesh it out with how they are going to accomplish these things.
A lot of people want to go back to the way things were, but I'm not convinced that those policies didn't get us to where we are right now. And I'm not at all certain that returning to those policies are going to move us forward. I'm in agreement that spending needs to be significantly reduced. I'm really looking for new ideas, not the same old ideas.
So, I don't totally disagree with it's intent, but I'm not sold either. I'm not sold on either side anymore.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
What will it take with you??
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Date:
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9/23/2010 9:47:41 PM
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You have often said you never hear any ideas from the GOP. Here they present concrete ideas about what they would do and you say its just words? Are you telling me until you can read a specific bill that you can't decide whether these ideas have merit? We know you will never read any bills and will base your opinion on whatever you hear on Morning Joe.
As for looking for new ideas that is also nonsensical. I don't care whether ideas are old or new or in between as long as they work. What they are proposing will work because it has always worked. You just go anead and sit in the middle with no core values and wait for someone to tell you what to think. Like many Independents (not all) you have no core values and you never learn from history.
I place you firmly in the hopeless category. Let's hope more independents are more thoughtful than you and vote for the GOP this November. We will just have to fix things without you.....as usual.....
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| Name: |
rude evin
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| Subject: |
What will it take with you??
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Date:
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9/23/2010 10:03:10 PM
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Country music song writer nailed it best...."If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything". Scary for the country, but that's what got Obama elected.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No core values?
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Date:
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9/23/2010 11:30:13 PM
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Of course I have core values. Who are you to say that I don't? Just because they are not YOUR core values..... and to my mind, that is the problem. I don't just embrace a party's "core values" because the GOP and their followers say I should. I'm not much on rhetoric, or wrapping myself in the flag.
w what they say -- if you do what you've always done, you'll get what you've always got.... And I don't happen to think that the last 10 years have been any picnic in this country. We've ended up with an economic crisis, a housing crisis, a pointless war in Iraq, and we're still screwing around in Afghanistan, instead of doing what we need to do in Pakistan. We've still got an immigration problem, and the country is more divided than ever. People are angry. Congress just does whatever...
As Jimmy Buffet said "yesterday is over my shoulder, so I can't look back there too long." I see no redeeming value in repeating the last 10 years.. When they start working to turn things around instead of just folding their arms, I'll embrace their plan. In my view, they just running scared because of the tea party, and trying to make it seem like they have a plan. There is no plan. They don't even have a viable candidate for 2012.
Now go ahead MM and call me names. Tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. I am a true independent and I make no apologies about it.
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
No core values?
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Date:
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9/24/2010 7:37:06 AM
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But do you think the current path is fixing those things?
I guess you have to look and ask yourself, at least on the economic crisis, if lower taxes, less spending and allowing the private sector to create jobs is what caused the crisis? Or was it it liberal beliefs that everyone should be able to get a home, whether they have the qualifications, down payment or can hold a job to pay in the future. There were miostakes made on wallstreet that should not have happened .... but it was fueled by the demand for mortgages because of the policies put in place by the dems that started under Carter (CRA) and expanded under Clinton. Fannie Mae and Freddie have been a cancer that no one was willing to treat .... and even with a 2,300 page financial regulation bill (that used to be 60 pages and worked for 80+ years) did not adress Fannie and Freddie or did it require a minimum down payment to purchase a home. Both the republicans pushed for and the dems would not hear of such loony ideas. Can you imagine how crazy it would be to require a down payment, or the federal government setting standards for mortgages they back or buy from banks and mortgage companies through fannie or Freddie?
As for the wars .... we probably will not agree ... but I also do not feel the approach Obama is taking is working or demonstrating leadership.
But the pledge is about the economy and getting people back to work ... and as MM said ... history has shown these approaches work and make the country stronger .... when the country is stronger it brings people together. The divide you talk about is being created by Obama with his attacks on business and success. Handouts and redistribution will never join a country, freedom and opportunity for all does.
It is interesting that the dems run on the party for the working class ... but history shows that the poverty rate increases (as it is now) under democrat leadership and policy and unemployment is higher. So how is that good for the working class? It seems the dems are comfortable with this ... make more people rely on government so it keeps them in office. Why bite the hand that is feeding you. People in need, need a helping hand, not a hand out.
Obama and the strong democrat congress had a chance to show their policies can work. They have not and there is no indication we are moving in the right direction. the best that can be said is we are bouncing on the bottom with a slight upward trend. There is nothing to say this will start to improve, in fact more say this pace will result in another down dip rather than a fueled up trend. Bush also took over a recession from the tech bubble that burst, then 9/11 .... the republicans addressed these with policies that got the economy moving and people back to work. That is what needs to be down again.
Many of us from day 1 said what Obama and the dems wanted to do would not work ... many challenged us. It does not matter who was right or wrong ... i would have been happy to be wrong .... but the policies have not worked and before we have a total melt down and collapse of the economy and our society, it is time to stanp up, admit it has not worked and return to what we know will work. Then we can get back to debating other issues. But we can not have 10% unemployment, want to raise taxes and keep expanding government which means more taxes and more unemployment.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You are simply blind and clueless
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Date:
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9/24/2010 8:45:37 AM
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To say they have no plan is a complete and total lie. They have a plan, they told you what they will do. They have Paul Ryan's Roadmap. These are all specific plans and ideas. You may not like them but to make the statement you made simply proves my point about your lack of intellectual honesty.
I say you have no core values because you are all over the place with your views. I think you are blinded by the ideology and arrogance of being an alleged "independent". That way you can vote for Bush one election and OCarter the next. Because I have core values that someone like OCarter is diametrically opposed to I could NEVER vote for him regardless of the defects of the candidate that more closely represents my core values. You however, because of your muddled thinking, can flip flop around and vote for whoever suits your fancy...maybe you like the way they talk (you know, clean and articulate as Biden described OCarter)....or the way they comb their hair. But you won't let core values get in the way like the rest of the sheep.
OMG, you can't even admit that OCarter was a mistake which is even putting you in an ever shrinking minority of independents. Pretty soon it will only be Hound and the left wing nuts like Archie and GF that support and are proud of their vote for OCarter.........getting pretty lonely.......
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
GOP Pledge to America
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Date:
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9/24/2010 11:02:34 AM
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Hmmm... Am I getting old? Did I just miss it? Or... was there really no mention of eliminating earmarks (oink, oink)?
I am fed up with both parties. The Republicans are merely the lesser of two evils.
Do not confuse my conservatism with loyalty to the Republican Party. I am registered as a Republican ONLY so that I can rip into them in the primaries. And, trust me, Shelby would NOT get my vote in a primary! He missed the class on who pays for pork.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
GOP Pledge to America
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Date:
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9/24/2010 11:14:37 AM
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A constitutional convention is getting more and more attractive.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Agree
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Date:
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9/24/2010 1:25:26 PM (updated 9/24/2010 1:26:18 PM)
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I too was disappointed with some things missing from the pledge but when it comes to the critical issues facing this country from the OCarter/Reid/Pelosi troika this will be a step in the right (correct) direction. I am all for supporting the most conservative candidate in the primaries but we can't cut off our noses to spite our faces in the election in November. If we end up with an imperfect GOP candidate we have to hold our noses and vote for them like we did in 2008. Staying home or wasting a vote on a third-party candidate is self defeating.
I am likewise sickened by the GOP leadership in the Senate hedging their bets with Murkowski and her spiteful write in campaign. Interesting factoid that I have not confirmed to be true is that in order for the write in to be valid her name must be spelled correctly. If I were Miller I would misspell her name every time it is used. Even so, it looks based on the polls that she is taking more votes away from the Dem candidate than Miller. Pretty telling about the concept of a RINO. I suspect the same will happen in Delaware if Castle takes a similar tact.
By the way, we're all getting old.....only one way to avoid that sad fact and its not a pleasant alternative. :-)
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I don't think anyone is Washington is working to solve the issues... including the GOP members that are there right now. Obviously, the Democratic members on the Hill are clueless and as a result are going to have big losses next month. It's their own fault.
My sister recently visited me. We both voted for Obama and both of us agreed that he has not lived up to his promise to be different. We both had hoped that he would be a tranformational President, but I think he will merely be a transitional President. I don't think he will be re-elected in 2012, if the GOP or the Tea Party can give people a reasonable alternative. I will not likely vote for him again, unless they run Sarah Palin, which I would consider to be totally unacceptable.
There is a huge opportunity in poliitcs right now. I suspect that both parties will squander it. The country needs a Reagan-esque leader to give the people back their confidence. When that happens, things will turn around quickly.
It has nothing to do with embracing core values. The country needs a charismatic leader.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Au Contraire
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Date:
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9/24/2010 4:04:51 PM
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To my way of thinking, it is you who is blind and clueless. You want so badly for them to have something and they don't. People are as fed up with them as they are with the Dems.
It is percisely that I have core values that I can vote independently. I had hoped that Obama would be a transformational President, but I think it is pretty clear now that he will merely be a transitional President. But that's okay.
You are frightened, and I understand that. You want to go back to what was comfortable for you. But those policies could not sustain themselves. As a country, we need to move forward, not backward. We need fresh ideas, and fresh leadership. Obama has tried, but he has not been successful. He's too much of a wonk, and he's not a charismatic leader. But I haven't seen a single GOP candidate (or Tea Partier for that matter) who can provide fresh leadership.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
No
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Date:
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9/24/2010 4:16:08 PM
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TH
Please tell me and others on this forum that you did not mean to say that you would vote for BO again. I am not a Sarah Palin fan but if I had to decide between Palin and Obama, I dam& sure would not vote for Obama. If this is really your thought process, then I am disappointed in you. I had concluded that you would put the country first.
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Good recap ...
I doubt Palin would be the nominee if she did run. I think she is a very bright woman and has definitely put some energy in to opening many peoples eyes. \
But i agree with lotowner ... if given the choice of Palin or Obama ... I would vote for her and believe she would be a better leader and surround herself with much stronger and brighter people than Obama has. Part of Obama's problem he had no experience and he surrounded himself with people with no experience in running anything. He had an agenda and his advisors did not know better to say the emperor had no clothes.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Au Contraire, Contraire
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Date:
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9/24/2010 9:30:20 PM
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you seek fresh leadership as if there is some magic silver bullet that no one has yet discovered. Your ignorance of history knows no bounds. Or perhaps "invincible ignorance" is the proper term. You see Hound, those that are invincibly ignorant of history think that all this is new, different, unique. Yet when you understand history you see we are simply repeating the foibles of the past, taking the wrong road once again, repeating the mistakes of history and assuming somehow we are in some magical times where human nature and economics cease to exist. I am a student of history, I understand what has worked in the past, what will always work and what has never worked and you apparently never will. Your naivete is boundless thinking that one man, because of his ability to read a teleprompter, can take failed policies and failed ideas and suddenly transform them, and like all of history you are profoundly wrong and doomed to repeat the errors.
As for me, I am a rational adult that can examine the current circumstances and judge them according to what some have learned from the past and understand what works and what doesn't. OCarter/Reid/Pelosi had their chance. They have repeated the mistakes of the past and like the fools they are assumed things would be different. But they aren't and here we are. You, holding onto your pride and your foolishness, are unlike most independents that have the intellectual honesty and courage to admit they were duped. Hold onto it Hound, we adults that understand what works will once again make the right choices and turn the ship in the right direction while you blather on about your hope and change.
The ironic thing is that no one more than OCarter stands to gain from the efforts of conservatives. He will claim credit just like Clinton and the government media will join the chorus like the useful idiots they are and you will march along like a mind-numbed robot saying, "Hope and change", "Yes we can" while we do as we have always done, fix your screwups and make America great once again. Don't worry, we have gotten used to your lack of understanding and gratitude and will do what needs to be done because it is right......
I have already violated my initial post by engaging with you when you have nothing substantive to say except, "I want new ideas!! waaahhhh. I need something new and different.......waahhhh.....I don't care what has always worked.......I want it to be new!!!" Sleep tight Hound with your TSP, we'll get er done as usual........
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But, in a choice between Obama and Sarah Palin I would vote for Obama. You know how Obama scares some of you? Well, I feel the same way about Sarah Palin. I'm convinced she's a charismatic nut case and I can't imagine what she would do to this country.
It would be a real shame to think that our only choice would be Obama and Sarah Palin. Let's hope that is not the case.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You scare me
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Date:
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9/25/2010 8:25:25 AM
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Not with the blazing superior intellect you seem to feel you posess, but with your rabid belief in the superiority of your own beliefs. You should run for public office.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Sorry
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Date:
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9/25/2010 11:40:33 AM
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But you already know how incompetent Obama is! At least, Palin has been a Governor and has a record in Alaska.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Sarah
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Date:
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9/25/2010 1:49:42 PM
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The short rounds who denigrate Sarah Palin appear to have learned everything they need to about the subject from sound bites on the MSM.
When one commits to research, one never needs to resort to name calling. Do the research, state your case, defend your thesis.
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She quit being governor in mid-term when she decided she didn't want to do it anymore. Her record in Alaska is Mixed. She's shown over and over that she doesn't know anything about national security.
I'd rather take my chances with Obama over Sarah.
Vanity Fair magazine has an interesting profile on her this month.
URL: http://www.vanityfair.com/politics/features/2010/10/sarah-palin-201010
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
read the article.
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Date:
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9/25/2010 4:16:35 PM
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Every thing I know about Sarah Palin has not come from MSNBC. Everything I have observed about Sarah Palin is from watching her performances and seeing her on Fox news.
I'm not a fan and I make no apologies.
If you can't see she's a nut case, I feel really sorry for you. You are welcome to her.
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| Name: |
lotowner
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| Subject: |
Sorry
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Date:
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9/25/2010 4:33:18 PM
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I understand your opinion on Palin now that your source is Vanity Fair. That's equivalent to forming an opinion after reading an article on George Bush authored by Louis Farrakhan in a Nation of Islam magazine.
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The liberal press seems to attack any conservative woman. Not surprising. Just creates more divide when you attack the person and not the issues for what they stand for.
Even you Hound .... I have not seen once where you stated what you disagree with about Palin ... you call her a nut case. I (and it seems many others based on her following) do not agree that she is. She is an articulate well spoken woman that is passionate that the country is on the wrong track. She does not personally attack Obama, as the liberals do her ... she attacks his failed policies.
So why not try to be a bigger person and disagree with the positions she takes rather than her as a person.
I agree with her positions and what she says ... but I still do not think she would be my choice as the 2012 republican choice. But ... her vs Obama .... no choice ... her positions are on track ... with Obama you just get bigger government, higher taxes, more regulation, attacks on business, more unemployment as companies leave the US.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Let's just say
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Date:
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9/25/2010 9:51:39 PM
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there isn't a thing that comes out of her mouth that I agree with. I think she mouths the conservative platform. When has she ever put forth a personal plan or idea that was anything more than rhetoric? She plays on emotion, not on fact. It's easy to play to the masses when you play on their emotions and their fears. I honestly believe that there is no substance. I think she is an opportunist. I don't necessarily blame her for exploiting her opportunities, but to put herself forward as a serious politician is wrong. She's a personality with an opinion. Rather like Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh.
I disagree that the media is not friendly to conservative women. I've seen and read very positive things about Condoleeza Rice and Olympia Snow. But I don't think the press is necessarily that friendly to women politicians in gerneral.
And I'm sorry to disappoint, but I don't just get my information about Sarah from VF. I've actually watched her and listened to her. She was front and center on the last Campaign as McCain's running mate. Even the people that worked on the campaign don't have nice things to say about her. I just don't buy her "brand".
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Can't take the pay cut
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Date:
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9/25/2010 10:04:27 PM
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Thanks for the recognition and suggestion but I think not. Actually you scare me because you vote for incompetence and refuse to admit it.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Hound, It's Time
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Date:
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9/26/2010 7:23:58 AM
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Hound, it’s time for you to be specific.
State SPECIFICALLY three (3) of Sarah Palin’s positions, and why you disagree with them.
Give us SPECIFICALLY three (3) of Obama’s positions and why you agree with them.
(Fishy is encouraged to take this challenge also.)
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hound, It's Time
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Date:
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9/26/2010 3:23:23 PM
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Don't hold your breath. Hound is both ideologically blind and abysmally clueless. She hates Sarah Palin for the same reason she hates GWB. She is an inside the beltway elitist that thinks anyone from outside the beltways is a hapless rube. Sadly she can vote which is a true shame.
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