| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 8:52:05 AM (updated 4/7/2011 8:54:44 AM)
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Y'all be sure to jump in here... 'specially Hound (who will tell us all how she feels).
800,000 federal employees (the same as 1995) the official says is the "vicinity" of workers who would be affected. Good, now if we can just keep 266,400 of them from coming back.
What's changed since 1995 though is that the Veterans Affairs Department was largely closed during the last shutdown, but will be open now because it has multi-year appropriation. It SHOULD remain open because we owe our veterans uninterrupted support. Military personnel couldn’t go on strike and couldn’t walk off the job.
Plus, the Department of Homeland Security didn't exist then, and many of their operations are necessary for safety and protection of property. Too bad it doesn’t exist now. CIA, FBI, and DoD (Special Forces, SEALS, Delta Force) could do a much better job under an interoffice cooperation agreement. DHS is already BLOATED and INEFFECTIVE. I would mind a holiday from government funded groping.
Military members will continue get paid through April 8th, but after that are only earning and will get money when the government is funded again. Now, they should just keep from losing their lives or being wounded during the shut-down. Military personnel can’t go on strike and can’t walk off the job. They don’t (and shouldn’t have) a government employees’ union.
DoD Civilian members will be under same consideration about who stays and their pay situation will be largely the same. As long as they don’t pull any of that union behavior, the essential ones should be paid because we owe our military uninterrupted support. They expect a significant number of civilians to be furloughed. Good, maybe 33% should not be allowed back. If you don’t miss them while they are gone... let them stay gone.
What services will be suspended? IRS filings with paper claims won't be processed and audits will also be stopped. Electronic claims will continue. If we had an effective IRS and understandable filing forms, we could make this shut-down 90% permanent.
Small business loans and Federal House Administration mortgages will also be halted. (The official noted that FHA had 12 percent of housing market in 1995, and now it's up to 30 percent) Make this permanent. The government should not be in the loan business.
The National Institutes of Health will not be accepting new patients or starting new clinical trials. For those of you who doubt that ObamaCare could weed out the sick and the elderly... here’s your proof. Maybe people shouldn’t get sick during the shut-down, because the government doesn’t consider that care essential.
The Environmental Protection Agency will cease facilities for air, land and water pollution, but keep up ones necessary for protection of life. This should be permanent until Congress gets control of the illegal regulation and fines by EPA edict and fiat.
The Cherry Blossom parade in D.C. this weekend wouldn't be happening. (although officials running the parade discount that notion) NO cherry blossoms will be allowed to bloom during the shut-down... so, don’
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 9:03:00 AM
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The GOP has proposed a bill to secure funding for the military for the rest of the fiscal year. Harry Reid will not let it come up for a vote in the Senate. If the military does not get paid it is entirely the fault of the Democrats, who we all know loathe the military anyway.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 9:08:06 AM
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I suppose I will not get my military retirement check.
Hmmm… let me see… where are those magic makers… need to stock up on poster board… HONEY! Wash up those little white towels – we’re gonna need them. Waaaahhhhhh!
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Guess We Now Know
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Date:
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4/7/2011 9:42:38 AM
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How you FEEL. Where is the analysis? If you think you have provided an analysis, you are sadly mistaken. You have provided a list and a bunch of opinions.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Guess We DO Now Know
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Date:
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4/7/2011 10:06:08 AM
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GOOD, HOUND! Now, tell me where I am wrong with each of my comments. Don't just sit back and spray disparagement. Offer substantive argument.
There is no doubt, by anyone on this forum, about how you or I feel. However, I believe that my “feelings” about the state of our country are backed by my support of doing something of substance about it. I support the well thought out plan by Rep Ryan. I do not advocate kicking the can on down the road. I am willing to suffer the austerity along with the rest of senior citizens, veterans, and patriots. And, most of all, I am NOT whining about doing so. I do not feel entitled. You won’t find me protesting because austerity hurts me too much. I feel obligated to participate in the saving of our great nation. One is NEVER so old that he (or SHE) can sit back and take a pass on responsibility.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Guess We Now Know
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Date:
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4/7/2011 11:25:04 AM
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Uh, I think the analysis was what the piece enumerated as to exactly what would happen during a government shutdown. I believe Maj provided his thoughts in bold about each one of them.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Planning and Execution - Pride and Gratefulness
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Date:
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4/7/2011 11:29:22 AM
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Hound doesn’t come across as anyone who has ever had to execute a plan. Other than her accomplishments that she has enumerated for us, we have no idea whether she was a productive civil servant or a “resident” civil servant (a space holder).
Five paragraph field orders (plans) are very concise and well thought out by only one side of the conflict (or in my case, engineer mission). Such plans usually get adjusted on first contact with the enemy... and remain in flux throughout the mission. A good leader is the master of such flux. GEN Petraeus is a good leader... Obama is a poor excuse for a leader.
My opinion of myself as a leader is irrelevant and inappropriate. (If you have a burning desire to know how my superiors felt about my performance, email me and I will invite you to come by and, unsupervised, blow through my EERs and OERs.) Bragging and pride are a put-off. As soon as you hear someone tell you how many medals he or she “won”... be VERY suspicious. It is an honor to serve and one should be grateful for such service... not proud.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Leadership
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Date:
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4/7/2011 11:34:00 AM
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Rep Ryan is a leader - Sen Reid is not
Rep Boehner is a leader - Rep Pelosi is not
Leaders lead... they do not push
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| Name: |
water_watcher
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 12:49:12 PM
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Good recap ... Bye bye non essential .... there should be much more on the list. I hope the republicans do not give an inch until the dems agree to the cuts. They want to play politics when the country is on the brink of bankruptcy ... then let them.
I just saw Ried on TV and he is attacking the extreme thinking of the Tea Party movement as the reason the government will shut down. But the only extreme thinking is his and the dems for continuing to kick the can down the road and lying to the american people. They just want to keep spending and buying votes and their only solution is to raise taxes ... not deal with the problem they created with all their give away entitlement programs.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Obama threatens veto
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Date:
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4/7/2011 1:05:17 PM
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Obama says he will veto GOP bill to extend funding for a week for the gov't and the rest of the year for the military. So tell us Hound, who is responsible now for the gov't shutdown? Who doesn't want to negotiate any more? Who wants to use the military as his political pawn to try and score points with their base?
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| Name: |
GoneFishin
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 2:05:01 PM
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Great analysis. If only John Boehner read it I suspect it would bring tears to his eyes.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
Analysis of a Shut-Down
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Date:
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4/7/2011 2:18:49 PM
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Did anyone get the license number of that car?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Hit and Run.....call the cops!
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Date:
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4/7/2011 2:34:56 PM
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
thank you so much
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Date:
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4/7/2011 4:37:38 PM
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I love hearing the opinion of a maintenance grunt.
You have no idea of the battles I have fought. I've never had to follow the politically correct path because I could substantiate my positions; but then, I actually wanted to make a difference, so I chose my battles wisely. Probably why I had a successful career.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Planning and Execution - Pride and Gratefulness
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Date:
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4/7/2011 4:46:28 PM
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Yes, and having written numerous OERs over the years, we know how those go. "The correct phrases and words", damning with faint praise, And it all sounds so good, until it goes before the board... isn't that right? I'm sure you were a sterling what ever you were. Was it Corps of Engineers?
I have nothing to prove with my career record. I had the attendant medals, awards and citations for things I've accomplished. But, my feeling has always been, you are only as good as the last thing you've done, and since my retirement I have made it a point not to accomplish anything of significance. The past is the past, and when I moved from VA, I tossed all that stuff, because who really cares? I don't believe in living in the past. The most significant thing I plan and execute now is what to have for dinner. And I'm not a male, so I don't have to run around peeing on the trees to prove I've been there.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
That's not an Analysis
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Date:
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4/7/2011 4:50:11 PM
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That's just a list with opinions.
An analysis would list what is going to happen, the attendant facts about each thing, and weigh the pros and cons of each thing. The MAJ just listed his opinions, and opinions are not part of a good analysis. As the MAJ well knows, in a professional setting, his list would get him thrown out of the room for it's insufficiency.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Obama threatens veto
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Date:
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4/7/2011 4:52:24 PM
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There needs to be a budget. You have no idea what a handicap it is to try to run an organization with only a CRA in place. And a shut down will cost the taxpayers money.
The voters will decide who is right or wrong.
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| Name: |
Summer Lover
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| Subject: |
Obama threatens veto
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Date:
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4/7/2011 5:18:14 PM
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I decided a long time ago Hound - they are all wrong. It takes a lot of incompetence to get to a 14 T + debt.....
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/7/2011 7:30:28 PM
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Maj was copying someone elses analysis of what a government shutdown actually means and then providing his comments on each.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Great point!!
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Date:
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4/7/2011 7:36:28 PM
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Then explain to me if it is so important to have a 2011 budget then why didn't Dems, when they controlled the House, Senate and WH during all fo 2010, didn't pass one last year?
The fact is they abrogated their responsibility and left this to the GOP to fix. And now they are the impediment to getting a realistic budget and making sure the military gets paid. You see Hound, if you weren't so blinded by your ideology you would see who is really to blame here...or maybe its because you read too much from Vanity Fair.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/7/2011 9:15:38 PM
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But he said it was an analysis and it isn't an analysis. It's just a list with his opinions. I don't mean to split hairs, but it's not an analysis.
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We know -- you never think the Republicans have done anything wrong. It's okay, we understand that you have a blind spot.
I have decided that the solution to the problem to the deficit is to fire all the current Congress, and make the jobs strictly an unpaid voluntary service. Now that will save the government some money. And I bet we won't have a problem with term limits either.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
No answer to my point, eh?
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Date:
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4/7/2011 9:53:21 PM
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I never said Republicans never did anything wrong. If you go back to my posts over the years the GOP controlled spending you will see I was consistent in my condemnation of their profligacy. But at the same time I was at least adult enough to understand the Dems would be way worse. And lo and behold I was completely right as we have seen $160 billion deficits balloon to trillion dollar deficits and all you can do is sit on the sideline and nitpick.
I made a factual point about the reason we are even here with this budget bullcrap and all you can do is say nah, nah, Republicans aren't perfect either. Wow am I glad you are retired and the only damage you can do is vote.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/7/2011 10:04:21 PM
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OK, maybe you are splitting hairs but I don't think there is an official government list of essential and non-essential government employees so it seems reasonable that someone would have to analyze government employees and make some sort of list. The list above seems to be the results of someone's analysis.
Of course if I were making the list way more than 800,000 of the over 2 million would be sent home. And not one of them would be in the military. If it were up to me they would get paid every red cent and anyone that proposes that would not be classified as a distraction like Dear Leader said.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
thank you so much
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:35:06 AM
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Well, now that I know that maintenance grunts have the most important jobs in the world, I'll try to humble myself before you.
I'm sure any day now they will empty out the Pentagon and you'll be appointed the Secretary of the Army, or maybe even Deputy Undersecretary of Defense for Policy, given your valuable insights you've gained being so close to the ground.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
ANY?
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:41:26 AM
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Do you know ANY operations that can survive without maintenance grunts? You speak like a fighter pilot: “The world is divided in to two classes of people – fighter pilots and shoe clerks.”
Go back to bed and try again later.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:43:06 AM
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The military are considered to be essential and all of them will work during the furlough. And they will get paid their fully salary.. that is, if the Republicans can stop trying to impose their social agenda and get back to the issue of Jobs and the economy. Of course, if you send all the government home, I don't know who will support those engaged in the war -- you know, sending them bullets and MREs and making sure they have spare parts... Who do you think does this, MM? That's right, government workers. They are called logisticians and they are government civilians.
Y
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No answer to my point, eh?
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:46:19 AM
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I make it a point not to answer rhetorical questions. Your Republicans are going to shut down the government over social issues. What happened to JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
At some point, you are going to wake up and realize there is no magic in Republicans any more than there is in Democrats. It's all political posturing. SOSDD.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
No answer to my point, eh?
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:48:26 AM
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I make it a point not to answer rhetorical questions.
Your Republicans are going to shut down the government over social issues. What happened to JOBS, JOBS, JOBS.
At some point, you are going to wake up and realize there is no magic in Republicans any more than there is in Democrats. It's all political posturing. SOSDD.
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| Name: |
MAJ USA RET
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| Subject: |
NO! YOU don’t understand.
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Date:
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4/8/2011 8:51:37 AM
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It’s the liberals who have a social agenda and the conservatives who have a fiscal agenda. The former is all about how you feel – the later is all about what you do. One is about empty promises of hope – one is about fueling the engine of hope. One is an empty suit with a briefcase – and,the other is a maintenance man with a tool box.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You are so wrong
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Date:
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4/8/2011 11:14:36 AM
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Republicans have passed a bill to continue the funding of government. Your President and the Dems in the Senate are going to shut down the government. Their bill is all about jobs, PRIVATE SECTOR JOBS, not union thug or worthless government jobs. I don't expect someone that spent their entire career sucking off my teet to understand or appreciate it.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/8/2011 11:50:44 AM
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Well lets see, using my tax dollars to fund abortions and left wing libtards on TV and radio that can't compete in the marketplace is not the Demoncrats social agenda but not funding them is GOP's social agenda. Do you see how illogical and contradictory you are Hound? I suppose not because liberals are impervious to facts and logic and yes, you are a social liberal. Insisting on providing federal funding is promoting their social agenda with MY money. I just want that stopped.
The GOP is not trying to stop the abortion mills with this legislation, just stop the federal government from funding it. And they are only trying to accommodate CPB who as we saw recently said they would be better off without federal funding. we just can't afford these and it is not right to ask the over 50% of the country that opposes abortion to fund it. If you want to fund abortion have at it. They will take your money at the local Planned Parenthood office. Be advised that you will need to go into the black areas because they are after all fulfilling Margaret Sanger's vision of getting rid of "those" people.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You'll note
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:01:15 PM
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that I didn't say anything about maintenance not being important... DO you READ???
Maintenance grunts are necessary, just like truck drivers.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
Deluded
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:02:42 PM
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It's you that is deluded. All of those riders are not about fiscal issues, they are policy issues. Do you even read???
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:06:13 PM
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Federal funds have not been used to fund abortions since, I believe, the early 90s. It is illegal to use federal funds to pay for abortions.
Honestly MM, your "facts" are slipping today..... But then, what do abortions have to do with jobs and the economy.... Wasn't it just you telling me that it was only FISCAL issues like jobs and the deficit? Your unfunding of PP will not stop abortions, which, by the way are LEGAL. Most women are not getting abortions at PP.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I'm not wrong
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:08:57 PM
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and your constant reference about what I understand are just lame. You can't recognize political posturing for what it is... how lame is that? Really, I expected more from you. I guess your lack of Washington experience is showing.
Go drink some more of that Tea Party tea.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
You don't seem to understand
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:25:04 PM (updated 4/8/2011 12:31:33 PM)
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Yeah, I have heard this lie for a long time. Planned Parenthood performs abortions, the federal government funds Planned Parenthood, ergo federal funds are used to fund abortions. That is pure logic. And besides, if you were really educated on this issue you would also realize that there are specific exceptions to the ban such as rape, incest, etc. So once again Hound, your WRONG on the facts. Want to apologize?........didn't think so. Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Pot.....meet kettle
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:29:40 PM
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Uh Hound, let me understand this. A rider eliminating federal funding of PP and CPB is not a spending issue? I wonder what you use to pay your bills but I use money. If someone wants to eliminate a source of my funding that actually is a fiscal issue. That they chose to reduce funding in a targeted way is perfectly fine with me. Happens all the time and I could not think of better places to reduce funding.
Its all about the money Hound or why would the Demoncrast care?
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
I'm not wrong
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Date:
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4/8/2011 12:40:20 PM
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Actually I don't participate in the Tea Party in any way, shape or form. That they agree with my views on fiscal issues is great and I wish them all the best.
Of course, Demoncrats are just genuine, honest, well meaning people and Republicans are just posturing. You see, I had always assumed that Demoncrats genuinely believed in murdering babies in the womb and were just pursuing their beliefs. Maybe they are just politically posturing as well.......either way, I don't want my tax dollars used for that. Give them all the money you want but don't shove your pro abortion beliefs down my throat by trying to make me pay for it. Seems fair doesn't it? I am all for you voluntarily giving them all your money if you want. But the fact is liberals are notoriously stingy which is why they have to use government tax collectors to do their dirty work.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
I know Far More
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Date:
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4/8/2011 5:51:16 PM
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about abortions than you will ever know. I have spent more time working and donating money for women's rights than you can even imagine.
So you take your little snotty attitude and stuff it where the sun don't shine.
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| Name: |
Talullahhound
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| Subject: |
It's not a spending issue
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Date:
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4/8/2011 5:54:34 PM
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It's a social issue that Republicans are trying to dress in a fiscal issue. If Republicans are so hot to pass the budget, than why are there all the Riders?
Don't bother to post an answer... I'm not even the least bit interested in what you have to say about it, Mr. 99.6% right -- a legend in his own mind. What a thing -- to be Master of the Universe in this very small little pond... Guess you have to be big here because you must not get to be "big" anywhere else that matters.
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It's all political posturing on both sides. If you ever understood anything about Washington and the way politics gets played, you would recognize that.
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
Oh my...so now we know
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Date:
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4/8/2011 7:42:37 PM
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Hound, I am sorry to hear that you have participated in abortion. That is a terrible burden to bear. We should change the subject. As an aside, while I don't have personal experience I have someone very close to me that had an abortion and the pain they have experienced is mind boggling. No more about the subject except I will pray for you......
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| Name: |
MartiniMan
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| Subject: |
NO
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Date:
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4/8/2011 7:44:47 PM
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So what you are syaing is that none of these politicians on either side have no core values or convictions, it is all about politics. I am actually not that cynical but maybe I should be. You have just made an argument for term limits if that is true.
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